|
Kiki112 (OP)
|
 |
April 17, 2014, 08:31:03 PM |
|
altough on the other side we would be the first to land on Mars and we would have massive and I mean massive media coverage, that would benefit us greatly!
We'd get massive media coverage from Antarctica as well. But we'd probably get more negative attention comparing to the Mars mission which would probably almost exclusively generate positive attention. we would get media attention for building an island too but colonising Mars, that's a whole new level of media coverage! we would be on the news for years not days  another thing, one of the most imporant ones regarding Mars what about the internet? There would be a delay on about 3 - 21 minutes one way. So double it to get the actual time. so I post a new thread on bitcointalk and it gets posted after 20 minutes? damn could we mine normally? |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction.
|
|
|
|
lepirate
|
|
April 17, 2014, 08:34:09 PM |
|
altough on the other side we would be the first to land on Mars and we would have massive and I mean massive media coverage, that would benefit us greatly!
We'd get massive media coverage from Antarctica as well. But we'd probably get more negative attention comparing to the Mars mission which would probably almost exclusively generate positive attention. we would get media attention for building an island too but colonising Mars, that's a whole new level of media coverage! we would be on the news for years not days another thing, one of the most imporant ones regarding Mars what about the internet? There would be a delay on about 3 - 21 minutes one way. So double it to get the actual time. so I post a new thread on bitcointalk and it gets posted after 20 minutes? damn could we mine normally? If we find the block about 21 minutes before any others, yes. But we'd have to have our own pool on mars, since mining in a earth based pool would not work. Would be to much delay. |
|
|
|
|
|
Kiki112 (OP)
|
|
April 17, 2014, 08:39:24 PM |
|
altough on the other side we would be the first to land on Mars and we would have massive and I mean massive media coverage, that would benefit us greatly!
We'd get massive media coverage from Antarctica as well. But we'd probably get more negative attention comparing to the Mars mission which would probably almost exclusively generate positive attention. we would get media attention for building an island too but colonising Mars, that's a whole new level of media coverage! we would be on the news for years not days another thing, one of the most imporant ones regarding Mars what about the internet? There would be a delay on about 3 - 21 minutes one way. So double it to get the actual time. so I post a new thread on bitcointalk and it gets posted after 20 minutes? damn could we mine normally? If we find the block about 21 minutes before any others, yes. But we'd have to have our own pool on mars, since mining in a earth based pool would not work. Would be to much delay. interesting but how would that actually work when we solve algorythims then they are transmitted back to earth or what? I'm not really into mining so I don't really understand the concept |
|
|
|
|
lepirate
|
|
April 17, 2014, 08:46:51 PM |
|
interesting but how would that actually work
when we solve algorythims then they are transmitted back to earth or what?
I'm not really into mining so I don't really understand the concept
Yes, exactly. We'd solve it first, then we'd claim it. But since the rest of the network is on the earth it would take quite some time to send the transmission that proves we found it first. During the time it takes an earth based pool would be able to claim it. Not to mention we'd also receive the new blocks 3-21 minutes after the earth based miners to, so we'd have less time to solve them. This would not be a problem on Antarctica though!  |
|
|
|
|
|
Kiki112 (OP)
|
|
April 17, 2014, 09:00:26 PM |
|
interesting but how would that actually work
when we solve algorythims then they are transmitted back to earth or what?
I'm not really into mining so I don't really understand the concept
Yes, exactly. We'd solve it first, then we'd claim it. But since the rest of the network is on the earth it would take quite some time to send the transmission that proves we found it first. During the time it takes an earth based pool would be able to claim it. Not to mention we'd also receive the new blocks 3-21 minutes after the earth based miners to, so we'd have less time to solve them. This would not be a problem on Antarctica though! how come it's 3-21 minutes what makes it differ from 3 to 21 lol if it was 3 minutes it could work but 21 damn |
|
|
|
|
lepirate
|
|
April 17, 2014, 09:05:12 PM |
|
interesting but how would that actually work
when we solve algorythims then they are transmitted back to earth or what?
I'm not really into mining so I don't really understand the concept
Yes, exactly. We'd solve it first, then we'd claim it. But since the rest of the network is on the earth it would take quite some time to send the transmission that proves we found it first. During the time it takes an earth based pool would be able to claim it. Not to mention we'd also receive the new blocks 3-21 minutes after the earth based miners to, so we'd have less time to solve them. This would not be a problem on Antarctica though! how come it's 3-21 minutes what makes it differ from 3 to 21 lol if it was 3 minutes it could work but 21 damn I don't know, but the space authority I got it from probably (hopefully) knows! |
|
|
|
|
|
Kiki112 (OP)
|
|
April 17, 2014, 09:09:45 PM |
|
interesting but how would that actually work
when we solve algorythims then they are transmitted back to earth or what?
I'm not really into mining so I don't really understand the concept
Yes, exactly. We'd solve it first, then we'd claim it. But since the rest of the network is on the earth it would take quite some time to send the transmission that proves we found it first. During the time it takes an earth based pool would be able to claim it. Not to mention we'd also receive the new blocks 3-21 minutes after the earth based miners to, so we'd have less time to solve them. This would not be a problem on Antarctica though! how come it's 3-21 minutes what makes it differ from 3 to 21 lol if it was 3 minutes it could work but 21 damn I don't know, but the space authority I got it from probably (hopefully) knows! we should ask them |
|
|
|
|
kuroman
|
|
April 17, 2014, 09:51:17 PM |
|
It still gets very cold on Mars during nights, even on the equator. A normal greenhouse (built above the ground) would become cold quite fast.
Of course it has a lot to do with the atmosphere to do.
Thick atmosphere - good at keeping temperatures.
Thin atmosphere - not so good at keeping temperatures.
Sure the lack of oceans is also a factor, but don't forget how important the atmosphere is.
The Antarctica idea would be to become self-sufficient. Food can be grown and raised underground, there are lot of fish in the oceans around, so that would not be a major problem.
The plan, also, which you seem to have missed, is to build the colony at the coast. Isolation won't be a that big problem either, since most building will be built underground, but their roofs on surface level. The soil itself is quite good isolation, and add some thick layers of isolating material, and there won't be much of a problem there either.
My polar base would not cost billions. It would cost a few millions to build, but not billions. It would not need to be resupplied either, at least not with the essentials, since we'd be self-sufficient. Food can be grown and raised underground, there are lot of fish in the oceans around, so that would not be a major problem.
Yes, the USA spends trillions on defense each year, sure, but do you have access to that money? It would not be realistic to fund your plan with donations and stuff either. So that's very unrealistic. I'm not saying getting the money to fund my project would be easy either, but it would sure as hell be much easier.
And of course we'd build the base along the coast! Why would we want to build it in the middle of nowhere? And as stated in this post and earlier ones as well, we would build it on (under) soil. Not on ice.
When it comes to the gravity part, of course I'm not talking about when you're outside exploring Mars, but when you're inside the base. We don't know how the martian gravity affects humans. We don't know if it will even be possible to breed children or anything. Neither if it's possible to grow larger plants.
Solar power would not work during these dust storms and wind power would probably not be a very good idea either during them (= damage).
A big advantage on the Antarctica plan would also be that it would not be a one way trip, which it would be to Mars. The trip would not take up to a few years either.
As I stated earlier in this post Antarctica would not cost billions. Mars would.
Of course it would be possible to build a colony on mars as well, but it would take a lot more work to get it up and running. Much of the easy accessible water on mars is on its poles, and in the atmosphere. Since your plan would to be place the base on the equator the atmosphere would be the best option, correct? To obtain enough water to support a large population would become very expensive as well.
To summarize; Antarctica would be simpler and cheaper, even though it would cause more diplomatic problems.
When I talk resupply, i talk about energy resupply to keep everything warm,(the stations you are talking about you industrial fuel with additives to not freeze for energy and heat, energy resources are not available in Antarctic the only viable solution is going nuclear if you want to be almost self sufficient in terms of energy (I'll let you check the price of a nuclear power plant not to mention the political side of things.....to resume this part is impossible) if you are going to build it on the cost (Antarctica cost is permanent and non permanent ice but not where near the soil which is some locations 4km deep under ice) why bother going dealing with that harsh environment I thought we were talking from a country perspective The base will cost billions if you want it to have the accommodation you are talking about, unless you build everything somewhere else and bring them there, but no digging, no underground stuff, you'll build stuff like the existing stations there, and you'll need resupply being it energy or food, so which is it, being self sufficient in terms of food, and costing more, or costing less and be dependable of the outside world which anyway it will be the case because of the energy issue. Martians Gravity would affect you if you are doing extensive training and wearing suites for hours that will make your body fit, the problem if someone doesn't do those things and even then, Astronauts who stays on the space station at zero gravity (free fall) still servive, but have bone loss and muscle loss but that's 0 gravity which brings many issues such the heart doesn't have to work against gravity, bones don't work at all ect Like I said there is many other source of energy, you can also store energy, you can use one energy to creat another form of energy, example, using solar electricity, to make chemical energy out of methane, water, hydrogen ect ect, and geothermal aerothermal energy is abundant and thanks to high temperature swings the effects are much higher than on earth. Nope no access to such money, but I can assure you that if someone comes up with a serious plan, and has already a large financial and technical backing which shows that it's not just dreams but a concrete thing, donations will flow, just look at Mars One the attention it is getting for nothing. As for the location there are different location not necessary in the equater, of course it will be no where near the polar region, but water is abundant under Mars soil, and almost whole Mars soil is perma-fraust heck there are even theories about underground seas, water does not exist on liquid state on Mars surface it is either Gas or Ice, both also exist water ice, is not that far north, Mars polar caps are mostly of dry ice and under that water ice that spreads enough. expensive no, you just drill wells like you do on earth or get ice and melt it, both are good |
|
|
|
|
|
Kiki112 (OP)
|
|
April 17, 2014, 09:58:26 PM |
|
It still gets very cold on Mars during nights, even on the equator. A normal greenhouse (built above the ground) would become cold quite fast.
Of course it has a lot to do with the atmosphere to do.
Thick atmosphere - good at keeping temperatures.
Thin atmosphere - not so good at keeping temperatures.
Sure the lack of oceans is also a factor, but don't forget how important the atmosphere is.
The Antarctica idea would be to become self-sufficient. Food can be grown and raised underground, there are lot of fish in the oceans around, so that would not be a major problem.
The plan, also, which you seem to have missed, is to build the colony at the coast. Isolation won't be a that big problem either, since most building will be built underground, but their roofs on surface level. The soil itself is quite good isolation, and add some thick layers of isolating material, and there won't be much of a problem there either.
My polar base would not cost billions. It would cost a few millions to build, but not billions. It would not need to be resupplied either, at least not with the essentials, since we'd be self-sufficient. Food can be grown and raised underground, there are lot of fish in the oceans around, so that would not be a major problem.
Yes, the USA spends trillions on defense each year, sure, but do you have access to that money? It would not be realistic to fund your plan with donations and stuff either. So that's very unrealistic. I'm not saying getting the money to fund my project would be easy either, but it would sure as hell be much easier.
And of course we'd build the base along the coast! Why would we want to build it in the middle of nowhere? And as stated in this post and earlier ones as well, we would build it on (under) soil. Not on ice.
When it comes to the gravity part, of course I'm not talking about when you're outside exploring Mars, but when you're inside the base. We don't know how the martian gravity affects humans. We don't know if it will even be possible to breed children or anything. Neither if it's possible to grow larger plants.
Solar power would not work during these dust storms and wind power would probably not be a very good idea either during them (= damage).
A big advantage on the Antarctica plan would also be that it would not be a one way trip, which it would be to Mars. The trip would not take up to a few years either.
As I stated earlier in this post Antarctica would not cost billions. Mars would.
Of course it would be possible to build a colony on mars as well, but it would take a lot more work to get it up and running. Much of the easy accessible water on mars is on its poles, and in the atmosphere. Since your plan would to be place the base on the equator the atmosphere would be the best option, correct? To obtain enough water to support a large population would become very expensive as well.
To summarize; Antarctica would be simpler and cheaper, even though it would cause more diplomatic problems.
When I talk resupply, i talk about energy resupply to keep everything warm,(the stations you are talking about you industrial fuel with additives to not freeze for energy and heat, energy resources are not available in Antarctic the only viable solution is going nuclear if you want to be almost self sufficient in terms of energy (I'll let you check the price of a nuclear power plant not to mention the political side of things.....to resume this part is impossible) if you are going to build it on the cost (Antarctica cost is permanent and non permanent ice but not where near the soil which is some locations 4km deep under ice) why bother going dealing with that harsh environment I thought we were talking from a country perspective The base will cost billions if you want it to have the accommodation you are talking about, unless you build everything somewhere else and bring them there, but no digging, no underground stuff, you'll build stuff like the existing stations there, and you'll need resupply being it energy or food, so which is it, being self sufficient in terms of food, and costing more, or costing less and be dependable of the outside world which anyway it will be the case because of the energy issue. Martians Gravity would affect you if you are doing extensive training and wearing suites for hours that will make your body fit, the problem if someone doesn't do those things and even then, Astronauts who stays on the space station at zero gravity (free fall) still servive, but have bone loss and muscle loss but that's 0 gravity which brings many issues such the heart doesn't have to work against gravity, bones don't work at all ect Like I said there is many other source of energy, you can also store energy, you can use one energy to creat another form of energy, example, using solar electricity, to make chemical energy out of methane, water, hydrogen ect ect, and geothermal aerothermal energy is abundant and thanks to high temperature swings the effects are much higher than on earth. Nope no access to such money, but I can assure you that if someone comes up with a serious plan, and has already a large financial and technical backing which shows that it's not just dreams but a concrete thing, donations will flow, just look at Mars One the attention it is getting for nothing. As for the location there are different location not necessary in the equater, of course it will be no where near the polar region, but water is abundant under Mars soil, and almost whole Mars soil is perma-fraust heck there are even theories about underground seas, water does not exist on liquid state on Mars surface it is either Gas or Ice, both also exist water ice, is not that far north, Mars polar caps are mostly of dry ice and under that water ice that spreads enough. expensive no, you just drill wells like you do on earth or get ice and melt it, both are good we can't rely on that, we should try it but the water might be contamined |
|
|
|
|
kuroman
|
|
April 17, 2014, 10:12:06 PM |
|
interesting but how would that actually work
when we solve algorythims then they are transmitted back to earth or what?
I'm not really into mining so I don't really understand the concept
Yes, exactly. We'd solve it first, then we'd claim it. But since the rest of the network is on the earth it would take quite some time to send the transmission that proves we found it first. During the time it takes an earth based pool would be able to claim it. Not to mention we'd also receive the new blocks 3-21 minutes after the earth based miners to, so we'd have less time to solve them. This would not be a problem on Antarctica though! how come it's 3-21 minutes what makes it differ from 3 to 21 lol if it was 3 minutes it could work but 21 damn It's 3 to 21 min (and even the communication at 21min might be impossible unless we set up a proper satellite network), the difference is for a simple reason : Both Earth and Mars turn around the sun, but both aren't at the same distance and they don't turn at the same speed around the sun, so what happens is that Earth and Mars get close to each (not to mention that Earth and Mars are not on the same plane, and that Mars orbit is more ovale than Earth) check this out http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/allaboutmars/nightsky/retrograde/Since earth is closer to the sun and heavier, it turns faster around it so earth passes Mars and they after 2 years they meet again, so when earth and mars are on the same side from the sun there is a point, when sun earth and mars centers from a line, that's when mars is the closest to earth, and the communication takes 3min to reach (btw rockets takes 6 to 8month to reach Mars at this distance, and actually we send the rocket before Mars and earth gets to this point it's like shooting in anticipation knowing where and when Mars will be the spacecraft will reach it orbit aka it should be on it, planets moves faster than any space craft so if you miss it it's a goner) of course after that point the distance between earth and mars starts widening as like we said before earth is faster than mars, to the point where they line again (a year later) this time Mars and Earth on opposite sides and that where earth and mars are at the farthest distance, we have the sun between us, (and the sun probably blocks communication I think this is called solar conjunction if I'm not mistaking, but if there are satellites on Lagrangian 4 and 5 points) (which will make communication even longer ) But yeah that communication with earth, but if you have you own population you won't internetz you can creat your own Martian internetz, on keep communication with earth, (also for instant communication, quantum entanglement for the win!) |
|
|
|
|
|
kuroman
|
|
April 17, 2014, 10:15:32 PM |
|
It still gets very cold on Mars during nights, even on the equator. A normal greenhouse (built above the ground) would become cold quite fast.
Of course it has a lot to do with the atmosphere to do.
Thick atmosphere - good at keeping temperatures.
Thin atmosphere - not so good at keeping temperatures.
Sure the lack of oceans is also a factor, but don't forget how important the atmosphere is.
The Antarctica idea would be to become self-sufficient. Food can be grown and raised underground, there are lot of fish in the oceans around, so that would not be a major problem.
The plan, also, which you seem to have missed, is to build the colony at the coast. Isolation won't be a that big problem either, since most building will be built underground, but their roofs on surface level. The soil itself is quite good isolation, and add some thick layers of isolating material, and there won't be much of a problem there either.
My polar base would not cost billions. It would cost a few millions to build, but not billions. It would not need to be resupplied either, at least not with the essentials, since we'd be self-sufficient. Food can be grown and raised underground, there are lot of fish in the oceans around, so that would not be a major problem.
Yes, the USA spends trillions on defense each year, sure, but do you have access to that money? It would not be realistic to fund your plan with donations and stuff either. So that's very unrealistic. I'm not saying getting the money to fund my project would be easy either, but it would sure as hell be much easier.
And of course we'd build the base along the coast! Why would we want to build it in the middle of nowhere? And as stated in this post and earlier ones as well, we would build it on (under) soil. Not on ice.
When it comes to the gravity part, of course I'm not talking about when you're outside exploring Mars, but when you're inside the base. We don't know how the martian gravity affects humans. We don't know if it will even be possible to breed children or anything. Neither if it's possible to grow larger plants.
Solar power would not work during these dust storms and wind power would probably not be a very good idea either during them (= damage).
A big advantage on the Antarctica plan would also be that it would not be a one way trip, which it would be to Mars. The trip would not take up to a few years either.
As I stated earlier in this post Antarctica would not cost billions. Mars would.
Of course it would be possible to build a colony on mars as well, but it would take a lot more work to get it up and running. Much of the easy accessible water on mars is on its poles, and in the atmosphere. Since your plan would to be place the base on the equator the atmosphere would be the best option, correct? To obtain enough water to support a large population would become very expensive as well.
To summarize; Antarctica would be simpler and cheaper, even though it would cause more diplomatic problems.
When I talk resupply, i talk about energy resupply to keep everything warm,(the stations you are talking about you industrial fuel with additives to not freeze for energy and heat, energy resources are not available in Antarctic the only viable solution is going nuclear if you want to be almost self sufficient in terms of energy (I'll let you check the price of a nuclear power plant not to mention the political side of things.....to resume this part is impossible) if you are going to build it on the cost (Antarctica cost is permanent and non permanent ice but not where near the soil which is some locations 4km deep under ice) why bother going dealing with that harsh environment I thought we were talking from a country perspective The base will cost billions if you want it to have the accommodation you are talking about, unless you build everything somewhere else and bring them there, but no digging, no underground stuff, you'll build stuff like the existing stations there, and you'll need resupply being it energy or food, so which is it, being self sufficient in terms of food, and costing more, or costing less and be dependable of the outside world which anyway it will be the case because of the energy issue. Martians Gravity would affect you if you are doing extensive training and wearing suites for hours that will make your body fit, the problem if someone doesn't do those things and even then, Astronauts who stays on the space station at zero gravity (free fall) still servive, but have bone loss and muscle loss but that's 0 gravity which brings many issues such the heart doesn't have to work against gravity, bones don't work at all ect Like I said there is many other source of energy, you can also store energy, you can use one energy to creat another form of energy, example, using solar electricity, to make chemical energy out of methane, water, hydrogen ect ect, and geothermal aerothermal energy is abundant and thanks to high temperature swings the effects are much higher than on earth. Nope no access to such money, but I can assure you that if someone comes up with a serious plan, and has already a large financial and technical backing which shows that it's not just dreams but a concrete thing, donations will flow, just look at Mars One the attention it is getting for nothing. As for the location there are different location not necessary in the equater, of course it will be no where near the polar region, but water is abundant under Mars soil, and almost whole Mars soil is perma-fraust heck there are even theories about underground seas, water does not exist on liquid state on Mars surface it is either Gas or Ice, both also exist water ice, is not that far north, Mars polar caps are mostly of dry ice and under that water ice that spreads enough. expensive no, you just drill wells like you do on earth or get ice and melt it, both are good we can't rely on that, we should try it but the water might be contamined because filtering doesn't exist? I'm not talking about your average filtering I'm talking about molecular filtering, You'll only get H2O on the other end, you think that people in space station has a well available to them? the only water they get is once in a while when they receive ( a quantity of water that is at most a couple of weeks worth of it own) but most of the water is recycled aka they are drinking their own pee and sweat recycled of course using catalyst |
|
|
|
|
|
Kiki112 (OP)
|
|
April 17, 2014, 10:19:36 PM |
|
interesting but how would that actually work
when we solve algorythims then they are transmitted back to earth or what?
I'm not really into mining so I don't really understand the concept
Yes, exactly. We'd solve it first, then we'd claim it. But since the rest of the network is on the earth it would take quite some time to send the transmission that proves we found it first. During the time it takes an earth based pool would be able to claim it. Not to mention we'd also receive the new blocks 3-21 minutes after the earth based miners to, so we'd have less time to solve them. This would not be a problem on Antarctica though! how come it's 3-21 minutes what makes it differ from 3 to 21 lol if it was 3 minutes it could work but 21 damn It's 3 to 21 min (and even the communication at 21min might be impossible unless we set up a proper satellite network), the difference is for a simple reason : Both Earth and Mars turn around the sun, but both aren't at the same distance and they don't turn at the same speed around the sun, so what happens is that Earth and Mars get close to each (not to mention that Earth and Mars are not on the same plane, and that Mars orbit is more ovale than Earth) check this out http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/allaboutmars/nightsky/retrograde/Since earth is closer to the sun and heavier, it turns faster around it so earth passes Mars and they after 2 years they meet again, so when earth and mars are on the same side from the sun there is a point, when sun earth and mars centers from a line, that's when mars is the closest to earth, and the communication takes 3min to reach (btw rockets takes 6 to 8month to reach Mars at this distance, and actually we send the rocket before Mars and earth gets to this point it's like shooting in anticipation knowing where and when Mars will be the spacecraft will reach it orbit aka it should be on it, planets moves faster than any space craft so if you miss it it's a goner) of course after that point the distance between earth and mars starts widening as like we said before earth is faster than mars, to the point where they line again (a year later) this time Mars and Earth on opposite sides and that where earth and mars are at the farthest distance, we have the sun between us, (and the sun probably blocks communication I think this is called solar conjunction if I'm not mistaking, but if there are satellites on Lagrangian 4 and 5 points) (which will make communication even longer ) But yeah that communication with earth, but if you have you own population you won't internetz you can creat your own Martian internetz, on keep communication with earth, (also for instant communication, quantum entanglement for the win!) yes, I understand that but the main point of the mission is bitcoin and it's based on Earth that is the problem.. because filtering doesn't exist? I'm not talking about your average filtering I'm talking about molecular filtering, You'll only get H2O on the other end, you think that people in space station has a well available to them? the only water they get is once in a while when they receive ( a quantity of water that is at most a couple of weeks worth of it own) but most of the water is recycled aka they are drinking their own pee and sweat recycled of course using catalyst
yeah, okay.. |
|
|
|
|
kuroman
|
|
April 17, 2014, 10:27:54 PM |
|
interesting but how would that actually work
when we solve algorythims then they are transmitted back to earth or what?
I'm not really into mining so I don't really understand the concept
Yes, exactly. We'd solve it first, then we'd claim it. But since the rest of the network is on the earth it would take quite some time to send the transmission that proves we found it first. During the time it takes an earth based pool would be able to claim it. Not to mention we'd also receive the new blocks 3-21 minutes after the earth based miners to, so we'd have less time to solve them. This would not be a problem on Antarctica though! how come it's 3-21 minutes what makes it differ from 3 to 21 lol if it was 3 minutes it could work but 21 damn It's 3 to 21 min (and even the communication at 21min might be impossible unless we set up a proper satellite network), the difference is for a simple reason : Both Earth and Mars turn around the sun, but both aren't at the same distance and they don't turn at the same speed around the sun, so what happens is that Earth and Mars get close to each (not to mention that Earth and Mars are not on the same plane, and that Mars orbit is more ovale than Earth) check this out http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/allaboutmars/nightsky/retrograde/Since earth is closer to the sun and heavier, it turns faster around it so earth passes Mars and they after 2 years they meet again, so when earth and mars are on the same side from the sun there is a point, when sun earth and mars centers from a line, that's when mars is the closest to earth, and the communication takes 3min to reach (btw rockets takes 6 to 8month to reach Mars at this distance, and actually we send the rocket before Mars and earth gets to this point it's like shooting in anticipation knowing where and when Mars will be the spacecraft will reach it orbit aka it should be on it, planets moves faster than any space craft so if you miss it it's a goner) of course after that point the distance between earth and mars starts widening as like we said before earth is faster than mars, to the point where they line again (a year later) this time Mars and Earth on opposite sides and that where earth and mars are at the farthest distance, we have the sun between us, (and the sun probably blocks communication I think this is called solar conjunction if I'm not mistaking, but if there are satellites on Lagrangian 4 and 5 points) (which will make communication even longer ) But yeah that communication with earth, but if you have you own population you won't internetz you can creat your own Martian internetz, on keep communication with earth, (also for instant communication, quantum entanglement for the win!) yes, I understand that but the main point of the mission is bitcoin and it's based on Earth that is the problem.. because filtering doesn't exist? I'm not talking about your average filtering I'm talking about molecular filtering, You'll only get H2O on the other end, you think that people in space station has a well available to them? the only water they get is once in a while when they receive ( a quantity of water that is at most a couple of weeks worth of it own) but most of the water is recycled aka they are drinking their own pee and sweat recycled of course using catalyst
yeah, okay.. no it's not bitcoin, is own country on which you can have your legislation, where bitcoin will be the currency of choice I suppose ^^ |
|
|
|
|
|
lepirate
|
|
April 17, 2014, 10:36:50 PM |
|
When I talk resupply, i talk about energy resupply to keep everything warm,(the stations you are talking about you industrial fuel with additives to not freeze for energy and heat, energy resources are not available in Antarctic the only viable solution is going nuclear if you want to be almost self sufficient in terms of energy (I'll let you check the price of a nuclear power plant not to mention the political side of things.....to resume this part is impossible)
if you are going to build it on the cost (Antarctica cost is permanent and non permanent ice but not where near the soil which is some locations 4km deep under ice) why bother going dealing with that harsh environment I thought we were talking from a country perspective
The base will cost billions if you want it to have the accommodation you are talking about, unless you build everything somewhere else and bring them there, but no digging, no underground stuff, you'll build stuff like the existing stations there, and you'll need resupply being it energy or food, so which is it, being self sufficient in terms of food, and costing more, or costing less and be dependable of the outside world which anyway it will be the case because of the energy issue.
Martians Gravity would affect you if you are doing extensive training and wearing suites for hours that will make your body fit, the problem if someone doesn't do those things and even then, Astronauts who stays on the space station at zero gravity (free fall) still servive, but have bone loss and muscle loss but that's 0 gravity which brings many issues such the heart doesn't have to work against gravity, bones don't work at all ect
Like I said there is many other source of energy, you can also store energy, you can use one energy to creat another form of energy, example, using solar electricity, to make chemical energy out of methane, water, hydrogen ect ect, and geothermal aerothermal energy is abundant and thanks to high temperature swings the effects are much higher than on earth.
Nope no access to such money, but I can assure you that if someone comes up with a serious plan, and has already a large financial and technical backing which shows that it's not just dreams but a concrete thing, donations will flow, just look at Mars One the attention it is getting for nothing.
As for the location there are different location not necessary in the equater, of course it will be no where near the polar region, but water is abundant under Mars soil, and almost whole Mars soil is perma-fraust heck there are even theories about underground seas, water does not exist on liquid state on Mars surface it is either Gas or Ice, both also exist water ice, is not that far north, Mars polar caps are mostly of dry ice and under that water ice that spreads enough. expensive no, you just drill wells like you do on earth or get ice and melt it, both are good
You still can't get that solar power + wind power + wave power will be enough to sustain this place, can you? Add some biogas if needed (which we could produce ourselves) and there would be no problems. FYI there are some dry spots on Antarctica which are ice free all year around. Perfect for building a new colony. Perfect for building a new country. It would not cost billions to dig some holes in the ground, build inside them, install our own power generators and get some starting supplies there. That would only cost a few millions. Being self-sufficient on food will not be that much of a problem. It is very possible to grow food underground. It is also very possible to breed animals underground, and fish in the ocean outside, which I've clearly stated in my previous posts. Also, being self-sufficient on energy I've already covered a thousand times now, I don't feel it's necessary to do so again. I still think you don't understand the possible gravity problem. We don't know what effects it has on the human body. We don't know if it is possible to grow bigger plants, we don't know if it's possible to breed children, we don't know what such low weight will have on humans long term. We don't know if martian gravity will be enough to avoid all these problems. And also, do you think everyone in a colony will be willing to do extensive training all days a week? I hardly think so. And in that case you're talking about professional astronauts and scientists, not settlers (especially not bitcoiners which I think was the focus of this new nation project). Sure, you can do those things to get energy, but that also costs a fortune. You'd also need to extract all the necessary substances whilst on Mars. You seem to forget the money aspect when talking about your project. First of all, if you leave the equator it will get much colder, so that would require even more energy and money to keep it inhabitable. Second of all, there's no proof of abundant water reserves under the ground, that is purely speculations. Drill for ice? That causes lots of problems not to mention that there's no proof of ice under the ground. How would you get all the ice up to the colony? Remember since, it doesn't float it will be like mining. Also, since it's solid, the well will not refill itself. What do you do when you have depleted your ice source? Again, to summarize; Antarctica would be much simpler and much cheaper, even though it would cause more diplomatic problems. |
|
|
|
|
|
lepirate
|
|
April 17, 2014, 10:38:06 PM |
|
But yeah that communication with earth, but if you have you own population you won't internetz you can creat your own Martian internetz, on keep communication with earth, (also for instant communication, quantum entanglement for the win!)
You know we don't have all that quantum stuff yet, right? |
|
|
|
|
|
kuroman
|
|
April 17, 2014, 10:43:59 PM |
|
But yeah that communication with earth, but if you have you own population you won't internetz you can creat your own Martian internetz, on keep communication with earth, (also for instant communication, quantum entanglement for the win!)
You know we don't have all that quantum stuff yet, right? we've been playing with quantum entaglement for quite a while and can be a viable solution for long distance communication, you just need to take the entangled subpartical to the place you are going, are we getting communication system based on it soon; nope not we are far from that, it's just a viable option in decades or couple centuries if the human race manage to leave earth and start living in other planets but it's most likely we will kill our selfs before hitting that milestone lol |
|
|
|
|
|
kuroman
|
|
April 17, 2014, 10:46:48 PM |
|
You still can't get that solar power + wind power + wave power will be enough to sustain this place, can you? Add some biogas if needed (which we could produce ourselves) and there would be no problems.
FYI there are some dry spots on Antarctica which are ice free all year around. Perfect for building a new colony. Perfect for building a new country.
It would not cost billions to dig some holes in the ground, build inside them, install our own power generators and get some starting supplies there. That would only cost a few millions.
Being self-sufficient on food will not be that much of a problem. It is very possible to grow food underground. It is also very possible to breed animals underground, and fish in the ocean outside, which I've clearly stated in my previous posts.
Also, being self-sufficient on energy I've already covered a thousand times now, I don't feel it's necessary to do so again.
I still think you don't understand the possible gravity problem. We don't know what effects it has on the human body. We don't know if it is possible to grow bigger plants, we don't know if it's possible to breed children, we don't know what such low weight will have on humans long term. We don't know if martian gravity will be enough to avoid all these problems. And also, do you think everyone in a colony will be willing to do extensive training all days a week? I hardly think so. And in that case you're talking about professional astronauts and scientists, not settlers (especially not bitcoiners which I think was the focus of this new nation project).
Sure, you can do those things to get energy, but that also costs a fortune. You'd also need to extract all the necessary substances whilst on Mars. You seem to forget the money aspect when talking about your project.
First of all, if you leave the equator it will get much colder, so that would require even more energy and money to keep it inhabitable.
Second of all, there's no proof of abundant water reserves under the ground, that is purely speculations. Drill for ice? That causes lots of problems not to mention that there's no proof of ice under the ground. How would you get all the ice up to the colony? Remember since, it doesn't float it will be like mining. Also, since it's solid, the well will not refill itself. What do you do when you have depleted your ice source?
Again, to summarize; Antarctica would be much simpler and much cheaper, even though it would cause more diplomatic problems.
what wind, solar wave you are talking about? you do realise that polar winter is 6 month of night in -50 to -80°C with blizzard that would instantly block any kind of wind of win turbines and water is fronzen ? you are quite missing the point |
|
|
|
|
|
lepirate
|
|
April 17, 2014, 10:57:00 PM |
|
we've been playing with quantum entaglement for quite a while and can be a viable solution for long distance communication, you just need to take the entangled subpartical to the place you are going, are we getting communication system based on it soon; nope not we are far from that, it's just a viable option in decades or couple centuries if the human race manage to leave earth and start living in other planets but it's most likely we will kill our selfs before hitting that milestone lol
Yeah, but we still don't have it, so it's not really relevant. Agree to that self-destruction thing anyway!  what wind, solar wave you are talking about? you do realise that polar winter is 6 month of night in -50 to -80°C with blizzard that would instantly block any kind of wind of win turbines and water is fronzen ? you are quite missing the point
For the last time, it does not get that cold in the costal areas! Even mid-winter the average temperature is −26°C. Much of the water in the ocean does not freeze, there's where the waves are. The wind you say? Those blizzards you talk about aren't that common in the costal areas, and when they come, then we'll just have to go on our reserves. No big deal. Okay, we might not have the sun for 6 months, and that loss we cover with the biogas if needed. |
|
|
|
|
|
Kiki112 (OP)
|
|
April 17, 2014, 11:27:51 PM |
|
no it's not bitcoin, is own country on which you can have your legislation, where bitcoin will be the currency of choice I suppose ^^
lol, I'm the original poster, how can you tell me what was my mission? |
|
|
|
|
kuroman
|
|
April 18, 2014, 12:04:18 AM |
|
Coastal area ? what coast are you speaking about you do understand that in winter the land scape changes completely with icecaps growing by hundred of miles and that the supposed cost area becomes hundreds if not thousands of miles away of the liquid water? so anything related to fishing or tyde energy is impossible not only you aren't answering the energy issue we are talking about here I have the feeling that you are really underestimating Antarctica (and why scientist are having a hard time there despite the millions of dollars budgets) here you go :   Also when it comes to temperatures, McMurdo antarctic base which is coastal and located in one of the warmest if not the warmest area in Antarctica the temperature can reach -50°C -60°C, the winter doesn't hit in one go, hence the mean temperature is as high as -28°C but that doesn't mean that there aren't days where the temperatures as low -60°C, as for winds blizzards and such, please, .... Antarctica is very windy place, since there aren't much mountains to block the wind(the continent mountains are under ice) As for biogas.....let's discuss some facts so you know what you are talking about.....You need a 35°C in the digester to decompose waste into biogas. Biogas is very hard to store as it is very hard to liquify but more importantly 50Cows, would produce the equivalent of 50L of fuel everyday, I don't know if you can put it in perspective, the amount of space and energy needed to give 50 cows a living environnement in Antartica would use more than those 50L of fuel per day I'm not even talking about feeding them (you can also use human waste and organic food waste but it's no where near what cows produce) so no biogas is not an option here. maybe you have other solution you didn't present yet so feel free to share |
|
|
|
|
|
