Should a Jewish resturant owner be forced to serve a skinhead?

[grondilu]

If a jewish merchand has the right to refuse serving a customer for whatever reason, what's stopping a non-jewish merchand to serve jewish people?

I believe any merchand should have the right to refuse to serve any client.  And if this allows racist behaviors and ostracism, so be it.

[FlipPro]

There is a real disconnect in this thread...

[FredericBastiat]

There is a real disconnect in this thread...

Disconnect with what? Libertarians just want the least invasive and violent form of government possible. What's wrong with that? The fact that people just want to serve certain people under specific constraints may, in some cases, appear arbitrary.

But what's considered arbitrary if property ownership is already absolute? In fact, property ceases to be property when it's not exclusive anymore. Or more precisely, it merely comes into possession and control of the strongest most violent individual willing to take it from you for whatever reason they deem necessary.

Welcome to the animal kingdom and Darwinism. Let the strongest survive. Such a beautiful world we live in...

[mai77]

If a jewish merchand has the right to refuse serving a customer for whatever reason, what's stopping a non-jewish merchand to serve jewish people?

I believe any merchand should have the right to refuse to serve any client.  And if this allows racist behaviors and ostracism, so be it.

Well then sure the Germans were right when they stopped serving jews and buying from jews in the 1930s. But why then all the fuss 

[myrkul]

If a jewish merchand has the right to refuse serving a customer for whatever reason, what's stopping a non-jewish merchand to serve jewish people?

I believe any merchand should have the right to refuse to serve any client.  And if this allows racist behaviors and ostracism, so be it.

Well then sure the Germans were right when they stopped serving jews and buying from jews in the 1930s. But why then all the fuss 

They started shipping them off to camps and killing them. That's kind of a no-no.

[mai77]

but the Israelis do it these days, no?

[myrkul]

For that matter, so does the US.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Ghraib_prison

[kokjo]

Fuck yeah!!! More nazi discussions.


dudes you are a bunch of lame necrobumpers!

[foggyb]

Fuck yeah!!! More nazi discussions.
dudes you are a bunch of lame necrobumpers!

Its perfectly ok to continue an old discussion that is also an ongoing issue.

It's important to note that one's race or sexual orientation are things that they have no control over, whereas one's membership in a violent racist group is the product of a conscious decision.

Some people choose a bi-sexual lifestyle. No one chooses to be bi-racial.

[myrkul]

It's important to note that one's race or sexual orientation are things that they have no control over, whereas one's membership in a violent racist group is the product of a conscious decision.

Some people choose a bi-sexual lifestyle. No one chooses to be bi-racial.

Yeah, you don't choose to be bi, either.

[mai77]

Should a Jewish owner of an eatery in NYC be forced by governments to serve a hungry neo-nazi skinhead, if he has the money?

or vice versa, in fact  

depends on whether he is an anti-semitism whiner  

or one of those: http://www.picturehost.eu/uploads/a03cd6150981e8658bab53f971218e8b_swast2.jpg

[mai77]

which of the two cases ("vice versa") would be more likely to happen 

[ArmoredDragon]

Personally I believe fully in freedom of association. If you don't want to hire or serve a person for any reason at all, that is your right. Personally I'd like to have the business of even the weirdos, so I see no reason to discriminate.

[mai77]

so why do the jews complain then about Germany?

[myrkul]

so why do the jews complain then about Germany?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust

[mai77]

Personally I believe fully in freedom of association.

so did Adolf Hitler presumably.

[ArmoredDragon]

Personally I believe fully in freedom of association.

so did Adolf Hitler presumably.

Not sure what you're getting at with that statement, but if it is what I think it is (e.g. against unrestricted freedom of association,) then that argument doesn't really work.

Hitler believed in a lot of things that many believe in today. For example, he strongly believed that nobody but the government should have access to firearms. That describes basically all of modern Europe as well as most of the Democratic party.

Just because somebody happens to agree with hitler on one particular subject doesn't make them the same as hitler, nor does that mean they agree with fascism.

If that isn't the argument you are trying to make, then I apologize, just your comment is a bit vague.

[niko]

I still can't decide. My knee-jerk reaction was "sure, I can refuse service to anyone I wish in my restaurant!" - but then, this restaurant operates within a public realm, and "public" has decided that it's not that simple. My premises are within their premises, so to say, so their rules apply. If I don't like it, I can pack my restaurant and move to the promised land. Or I can urge the public to change the rules, which may in fact be the best solution in this case (is this what RP argued?).

[myrkul]

I still can't decide. My knee-jerk reaction was "sure, I can refuse service to anyone I wish in my restaurant!" - but then, this restaurant operates within a public realm, and "public" has decided that it's not that simple. My premises are within their premises, so to say, so their rules apply. If I don't like it, I can pack my restaurant and move to the promised land. Or I can urge the public to change the rules, which may in fact be the best solution in this case (is this what RP argued?).

Or, here's an idea: If "the public" disagrees with how you use your property, they don't have to eat there. If enough of "the public" disagree with your practices, and too few of them agree, you'll have to change those practices, or go out of business.

[nebulus]

Why in the world would a skinhead eat in a Jewish restaurant?