Should a Jewish resturant owner be forced to serve a skinhead?

[nimda]

I've given a lot of thought to racism. I'm repulsed by it, but I don't think it morally wrong, at least not initially.
Just as it's not morally wrong to believe the moon landing was a hoax, it's not morally wrong to believe in the superiority of a race.

Racism is factually wrong.

Just as it's morally wrong to shoot Buzz Aldrin, it's morally wrong to shoot a Jewish person.

When violence is involved for racial reasons, it becomes morally wrong. Most of the disgust with racism comes from a combination of its obvious factual incorrectness and the moral wrongs committed in its name (lynching, the Holocaust, etc).

Forcing someone not to murder is OK, because the force is less abhorrent than the prevented act. Forcing someone to serve another person is not OK, because the force involves violence which is worse than the initial refusal of service.

[myrkul]

I've given a lot of thought to racism. I'm repulsed by it, but I don't think it morally wrong, at least not initially.
Just as it's not morally wrong to believe the moon landing was a hoax, it's not morally wrong to believe in the superiority of a race.

Racism is factually wrong.

Just as it's morally wrong to shoot Buzz Aldrin, it's morally wrong to shoot a Jewish person.

When violence is involved for racial reasons, it becomes morally wrong. Most of the disgust with racism comes from a combination of its obvious factual incorrectness and the moral wrongs committed in its name (lynching, the Holocaust, etc).

Forcing someone not to murder is OK, because the force is less abhorrent than the prevented act. Forcing someone to serve another person is not OK, because the force involves violence which is worse than the initial refusal of service.

Well said.

[ArmoredDragon]

Honestly I think people these days are too paranoid about racism. The unfair campaign for example is just plain asinine, when I saw that commercial for the first time I felt like whipping my dick out and slapping them all across the face.

It's stupid how even the most benign actions you can take these days can be interpreted as racism. And worse is when you try to confront it, THAT is labeled as racism. If you want to silence somebody these days, all you have to do is accuse them of being racist.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RovF1zsDoeM

[Twerka]

Did the skinhead do it something to you? If not, and if he is a good consumer, I think he should be treated as a normal consumer.

Treat others as you would like to be treated

[antibanker]

how about a jew visiting a restaurant run by a skinhead?

[myrkul]

how about a jew visiting a restaurant run by a skinhead?

If he wanted to, the skinhead would be well within his rights to expel them.

It's like this: It's your property. You can decide who can, and who cannot, eat there. It's as simple as that.

[ArmoredDragon]

how about a jew visiting a restaurant run by a skinhead?

If he wanted to, the skinhead would be well within his rights to expel them.

It's like this: It's your property. You can decide who can, and who cannot, eat there. It's as simple as that.

Depends on where you live. In the US, freedom of association is a pretty well recognized concept except for when it comes to employment. There are also zero hate speech laws. In many places of Europe however, if you kick somebody out of your restaurant and he happens to be a different color from you or a homosexual, he has a pretty good case for a lawsuit against you, possibly even criminal action, even if that isn't why you actually kicked him out.

[antibanker]

I bet, if a skinhead refuses to serve a jew in his own restaurant, the jew won't go down quietly. LOL

esp. in New York City aka Hymietown  LOL

[myrkul]

how about a jew visiting a restaurant run by a skinhead?

If he wanted to, the skinhead would be well within his rights to expel them.

It's like this: It's your property. You can decide who can, and who cannot, eat there. It's as simple as that.

Depends on where you live. In the US, freedom of association is a pretty well recognized concept except for when it comes to employment. There are also zero hate speech laws. In many places of Europe however, if you kick somebody out of your restaurant and he happens to be a different color from you or a homosexual, he has a pretty good case for a lawsuit against you, possibly even criminal action, even if that isn't why you actually kicked him out.

So what you're saying is, that government laws violate rights. Tell me something I don't know.

[Stunna]

If the skinhead is behaving in a civil manner then I believe that he should serve him. It is unlikely though that a skinhead would go dine and support a jewish restaurant though. Ghandi once said, "You need to be the change you wish to see in the world".

[myrkul]

If the skinhead is behaving in a civil manner then I believe that he should serve him. It is unlikely though that a skinhead would go dine and support a jewish restaurant though. Ghandi once said, "You need to be the change you wish to see in the world".

And if he knew you were using that quote in this context....

[antibanker]

well but that does not answer the OP's question.

if jews complain about Germans boycotting them back in 1935, jews cannot boycott skinheads in 2013.

it is that simple really.

so: jews should be forced to serve anybody who is going to pay the price they demand for their service.

[Mike Christ]

Skinheads are still around? That's amazing! Thought they went extinct like 90's pop music.

Anyway, a skinhead knows what he's getting into when he goes to a Jewish establishment. If the skinhead deems it appropriate, he's probably just looking for some eats. If he acts up, the owner should kick him out.

I don't understand "rights". The jewish owner should do what's best for his establishment. There is no right to kick a rowdy customer out; there is simply the most logical decision. Protect your current clientelle by keeping the peace. If, however, the skinhead eats and is peaceful and pays, it would be bad business to tell him not to come back. Of course you want him to come back; he's a paying customer, he's hungry, personal beliefs need not apply. If the Jewish owner wants to shoot himself in the foot, why does the government deem it inappropriate? It's already a hit to his business to turn clients away; if he has a good reason, he should do it.

[antibanker]

well if you don't like the example, take a man of colour instead of the skinhead.

[MysteryMiner]

As a racist I try to avoid jewish and immigrant establishments whenever possible. Long time ago I entered jewish restaurant and asked for pig steak. Surprisingly me and my friends were kindly offered alternate kosher foods. I was dressed in black shirt with runes and black beret, cammo pants and paratrooper boots so the waitress could not mistake us for ordinary customers.

I don't want to force jews to serve me at their restaurants. By buying from them I will make them even more richer by using their business. And also I want to be allowed not to serve blacks or jews if I have my own shop. The problem might be the double standards when I'm not served at jewish restaurant because I'm known racist but I must serve niggers and immigrants at my restaurant or computer workshop.

[antibanker]

of course, a jew trying to enforce his "right to be served" might find himself without his money but a dish of nicely spiced dogshit in return.

I wonder whether a skinhead is entitled to that line of action?

[Mike Christ]

I like the motto: "Everyone gets the same rights, or nobody does." Jews don't get special treatment. Skinneads don't get special treatment. Blacks don't get special treatment. Whites don't get special treatment. But the government, in all its holiness, enables special treatment. It enables abuse; gives racists an excuse for their racism. Just another non-service the government provides.

Nobody should be forced one way or another. To believe it's okay to force, is to be a fascist. There's a surprising amount of those in a country which propagates freedom.

[antibanker]

so the jews should stop whining over not being served in Germany 1935.

a novel approach!

[Mike Christ]

so the jews should stop whining over not being served in Germany 1935.

a novel approach!

They should. But they shouldn't be forced to.

[antibanker]

but would they try to force a skinhead restaurant owner to serve them a dish when he refuses to serve a jew?