[ANN] Mjollnircoin - MNR - Ultra-secure, Fast Transactions & ASIC resistant

[sunmaoipo]

please donot pos. pow+pos is not a good idea.

[zedicus]

At bittrex when you are at your dashboard there are some sponsored coins at the top of the page getting some nice screen time! Does anyone know how much it costs to get us on?

[Soul_eater_123]

please donot pos. pow+pos is not a good idea.

You misunderstand.  The idea is to go to POS only not a combination.

[Soul_eater_123]

At bittrex when you are at your dashboard there are some sponsored coins at the top of the page getting some nice screen time! Does anyone know how much it costs to get us on?

Yes.  I think it costs 1 BTC to advertise there.

[hamer-xx]

I agree with Cayars

From my point of view Pow+Pos hybrid system looks more interesting.TEKcoin is good example, but with lower interest rate (maybe 5% - 10% per month)

[Soul_eater_123]

I agree with Cayars

From my point of view Pow+Pos hybrid system looks more interesting.TEKcoin is good example, but with lower interest rate (maybe 5% - 10% per month)

I completely disagree.  I'm a miner myself but miners don't support a currency in the way you describe.  It needs to gain widespread acceptance and mining is irrelevant to the very people that need to come on board to make a currency viable. 

Whilst I haven't sold any of my MNR - most miners seem to mine a coin and sell it straight away.  This actually devalues a currency and makes it less attractive to buyers.  Certainly we as miners are major supporters of the currency at present because we have the largest investment in it. 

Continuing POW will only perpetuate the idea that this is a currency for miners.  Combining POW and POS would be a disaster IMO as it would devalue the currency by increasing the rate of coin production.  Much as we might not like it, the future is with ASICs, multi-algo mining and POS.  I don't believe in making a currency that is purely for now. 

Things move very fast in crypto and just thinking of a currency as a temporary thing won't inspire confidence in others to invest. 

I've already had a lot of positive interest asking non-miners how they would feel about MNR going POS. 

Let's not kill Mjollnir before it even gets going because we are too narrowly focused on our own little world of mining.  For it to succeed it needs to move more towards regular people adopting it.

POS only (as opposed to POW+POS) is the way to achieve that.

[simpala64]

Little late in the game to change the coins spec

[tazmania]

At bittrex when you are at your dashboard there are some sponsored coins at the top of the page getting some nice screen time! Does anyone know how much it costs to get us on?

3btc

[Soul_eater_123]

Little late in the game to change the coins spec

No.  Are you a troll or something? Pretty much every altcoin has had changes made to it to it's spec so your point is either a wind up or an indication of extreme ignorance.

[mjollnircoin]

I have considered PoS before; at the end of mining of Mjollnircoin with a an extreme low interest rate. PoS greatest benefit from Mjollnir's is indeed the PoS energy efficiency but I never implemented it, since at that time it was not necessary to have it. Also, given the parametrics, it can well be a new coin - and I think that's the simpler solution ?

It is risky making a change like that, I don't like that; PoS also brings new risks I can see happen to MNR if it gets low on resources. Also when things are possible, they will happen and suppose there was PoS now in MNR at current total coin supply, at 3000 satoshi it is possible one or few become a monopolist

Also, PoS for me and others too it seems, need more convincing arguments; I think there are better features to implement over mid term.
 
Mjollnir is quite unique in its current setting and choice of PoW; The block devaluation will start aprox. in Oktober this year, by 0.85% every 11 days, slowing the coin's total supply rate . By then, total supply is ~5.2 million coins. Using HEFTY as PoW is a good choice for our GPU this summer.

We need to improve our visibility and work is done for that, but everyone should help spread the word






 



















 

[hamer-xx]

I agree with Brokkir

I would really like to hear other peoples thoughts on this matter - Braxx, Zedicus, TheRealSteve, djm34 , SimkoMiner ...

Cayars - alpha and omega of Mjollnircoin - I have a lot of respect for his opinion, perhaps he can elaborate more on the subject.

I will continue to support MNR, whatever path community/team members choose.

Thor bless Mjollnircoin !!!

[Soul_eater_123]

If the community agrees then that's fine but I have to respectfully disagree that continuing proof of work at the current rate until October is a good idea.  I have also not heard any really compelling reasons as to why it would be a problem going to POS.  

If you think it would lead to unfair distribution - I have a message for you: Mining is unfair.  The more money you have the more mining hardware you can buy and run - you can also afford to choose your mining location to save on power.  

The only way to make mining fair is to implement a system similar to Minerals and make it even harsher on the maximum hash-rate allowed.  If you force the pools to limit everyone to one miner with a maximum hash-rate of say 20 MH/s then you ensure a fairer distribution.  I doubt anyone has the balls to implement anything like that anyway given how much grief the minerals team got for it.

Until then you will always have larger miners who are able to minimise their costs, mining huge volumes of coins and underselling everyone.  They sell their coins straight away and then move on to the next coin - long term viability of the currency is irrelevant to them.

A big problem in crypto generally has been lacklustre leadership and aimless development. I have mined this currency from the beginning and I for one need to see some kind of development with this coin.  Just coasting along silently with no news waiting for things to happen is just not viable.  In addition to this mining alone will never make a successful coin.  Your average person will never bother with it and there is no point in mining something nobody will ever use.  

This coin has managed to get on Bittrex but if I hadn't pushed things forward that would have never happened.  To be honest this kind of stuff should have been sorted out before the coin was even released.  We need a definite plan with deadlines and proper drive behind it or we will end up another forgotten coin.  This requires proper leadership as well as proper PR management - 2 things that I am sorry to say have been lacking so far.

With this in mind, we need a definite document defining what the current plans for MNR are and we need them ASAP within a week if possible -   How awareness will be raised, utility increased, value will be built into the currency etc.  

Part of development (and this has been seen multiple times in crypto) is that there needs to be good communication of goals and innovations in order to reassure both the community and those who are considering investing.

Following this I propose 2 months to see if the plans succeed.  If in 2 months time the value of MNR is significantly higher we proceed with things as they are.  If not we put the POS question to the community in a poll and let the community decide if POS is the future or not.  

I believe if we all get involved in this we can help to take this coin forward but we will need to work hard.

Brokkir I appreciate that you created this coin, however, that does not give you greater ownership of it than the community.  I would suggest you listen to what the community says. You are also going to need to get hungry to succeed.  In a sense you are at the helm of a new kind of business and in order to succeed you will need to be a bit more forward.

[Soul_eater_123]

In addition to the above I have another idea that came to me.  Bryce Weiner is a controversial figure but he has been willing to give input on altcoins to other teams.  I believe it would be worth reaching out to him and inviting him to be involved with MNR.  He is not only incredibly intelligent and insightful in such matters but he would also be able to advise on others that may be able to help.  I definitely think it would be worth a try.

[Soul_eater_123]

One advantage of setting up POS that hasn't been mentioned is the ability to create a multipool that mines the most profitable coins and pays out in MNR.  This would immediately create buying support for MNR and help to stabilise the price.  It would also allow miners to continue getting MNR without having to trade directly.

[djm34]

One advantage of setting up POS that hasn't been mentioned is the ability to create a multipool that mines the most profitable coins and pays out in MNR.  This would immediately create buying support for MNR and help to stabilise the price.  It would also allow miners to continue getting MNR without having to trade directly.

aren't you happy with mining directly the coin ?
Even though I also like POS... it is mostly for the interest... not for the multipool which doesn't make sense when the coin has a POW component... even less here since it is a rather original algo...

[Soul_eater_123]

One advantage of setting up POS that hasn't been mentioned is the ability to create a multipool that mines the most profitable coins and pays out in MNR.  This would immediately create buying support for MNR and help to stabilise the price.  It would also allow miners to continue getting MNR without having to trade directly.

aren't you happy with mining directly the coin ?
Even though I also like POS... it is mostly for the interest... not for the multipool which doesn't make sense when the coin has a POW component... even less here since it is a rather original algo...

It's about creating buy support for the coin.  There's no point in mining a coin if you can't use it for anything.  The whole point is that there needs to be some trade volume to keep a currency going.  At the moment coins get delisted from exchanges very quickly.  It is all a part of establishing the coin.

[Soul_eater_123]

Also guys I don't want to see as if I'm imposing my opinion on everyone so I apologise if it comes out that way.  I've been mining MNR from the start and am very passionate about it.  I understand if people aren't in favour of POS and will go with the community opinion on this.  On another note I've been thinking about some of the things that have previously discussed for implementation and thought it would be useful to sketch out some of these ideas for refinement, modification etc.

The ideas that we discussed so far include

1)  Repeat payment system within the wallet - this would be similar to direct debits in the UK, basically you could set up a repeat payment for example for your monthly bills or subscriptions with MNR instead of a bank account

2) Market integration within the wallet, to follow prices and to allow trading.

3) Coloured coins - allowing the MNR blockchain to carry extra information and to function as a method of issuing other financial instruments (better explanation here:https://docs.google.com/document/d/1AnkP_cVZTCMLIzw4DvsW6M8Q2JC0lIzrTLuoWu2z1BE)

4) Proof of Existence (POE) in relation to digital receipts for merchants/retailers.

5) Getting retailer/merchant adoption of MNR

Other ideas that come to mind and have been suggested for other coins:

1) Use of MNR as an a video gaming currency.

2) An integrated betting system using MNR.

3) Sponsorship e.g. Sports Stars, Celebrities, Artists

4) Mobile wallets

5) SMS payment system

6) Privacy system (rather than full anonymity) that can be used when required

7) Messaging/Chat system within the wallet for communicating during trades etc.

8 ) Voting system within the wallet for checking community support for new developments/changes

9) A staking system (if POS only, or POS+POW) that bases the staking rate on the total coins being staked in wallets (Vericoin).

10) Multi algorithm support for mining +/- Merged Mining

11) A retail rewards system

Please feel free to add anything else that you can think of or that I have missed.

[cayars]

I've been sort of side-tracked the past few weeks with work and some side projects so I haven't posted much but I've been reading.

I think we could all agree on these things:
1) Making a change to the code is not a simple/trivial thing to do.  It has risks involved.  But it is doable (especially if tested well on testnet).
2) POS would/should look very good to anyone who has been mining and holding (bag holders) since they will now make extra coins due to the interest. So they will gain extra coins/shares for doing nothing additional except continuing to hold.  It helps those holding coins to get more coins.
3) Those who have mined and sold will gain nothing from going to POS as they have nothing to gain interest on.

Before continuing I'll express my dislike of pure POS coins or coins that start POW and then go POS.

With that said, to me a compromise coin where say 90-95% of coins are generated via mining but 5%-10% of coins produced is POS has merit for consideration. So it's both POW and POS at the same time.
This DOES give a reason to purchase the coins on an Exchange as you get interest on the coins, so it can make more sense then holding btc.
This is closer to "real life" where you have to work to earn money but once you earn the money you can invest it and allow the investment to earn additional money.

But in reality these are all "cosmetic" issues and in themselves aren't going to change MNR overnight. There are tons of coins already trying these methods.  They all copy off each other in some way and they all have their own set of issues.  A case of the "grass is always greener on the other side".

I'm going to take a detour and go a complete different direction.  If I were doing an alt coins this is the direction I'd "bank on" and figure out first.

If you really want to get down to it. MNR is a crypto-currency.  Currency being the keyword.  Almost all alt-coins simply fail at being a currency.  Sure you can trade the coins at an exchange but that's more like buying/selling stocks or commodities. Alt-coins are a bull/bear market for traders.

If MNR or any coin for that matter wants to become a "currency" that matters, it needs to establish EASY ways for people to use the currency.  First and foremost is easy to use wallets that common people can use on a computer, tablet or smart phone.  Smart phone use being key.  Then once you have this you need to get major merchants on board OR find an easy way for people to transfer MNR to a debit card, pre-paid visa/mc card, paypal account (which can be linked to CC), Google Wallet, Square, LevelUp, Venmo, etc.  To get an idea of some of these check out this: http://money.cnn.com/video/technology/2012/09/23/t-mobile-payments.cnnmoney/index.html?iid=F_Jump

Solve the above problem and you're an almost overnight top 2 to 5 coin and value will sky rocket as well as awareness without even having to market it (although you still want to market it).

I know some people (in general) are pushing hard for non-traceable transactions.  I wouldn't go that route on purpose IF a dev is going for big time currency use.  For example if you worked out a way for funds to be transferred to a debit card, pre-paid visa/mc card or similar, any type of coin with un-traceable transaction will have a very hard time getting excepted. The US FED and other Gov agencies have too much involvement in being able to trace transactions to allow that.  Think about law enforcement being able to solve crimes, etc.

What I've just expressed IS THE ACHILLES HEEL of alt coins in general. But solve or partner with companies already offering electronic payments and you got a game changer in the works.

Carlo

[Soul_eater_123]

I've been sort of side-tracked the past few weeks with work and some side projects so I haven't posted much but I've been reading.

I think we could all agree on these things:
1) Making a change to the code is not a simple/trivial thing to do.  It has risks involved.  But it is doable (especially if tested well on testnet).
2) POS would/should look very good to anyone who has been mining and holding (bag holders) since they will now make extra coins due to the interest. So they will gain extra coins/shares for doing nothing additional except continuing to hold.  It helps those holding coins to get more coins.
3) Those who have mined and sold will gain nothing from going to POS as they have nothing to gain interest on.

Before continuing I'll express my dislike of pure POS coins or coins that start POW and then go POS.

With that said, to me a compromise coin where say 90-95% of coins are generated via mining but 5%-10% of coins produced is POS has merit for consideration. So it's both POW and POS at the same time.
This DOES give a reason to purchase the coins on an Exchange as you get interest on the coins, so it can make more sense then holding btc.
This is closer to "real life" where you have to work to earn money but once you earn the money you can invest it and allow the investment to earn additional money.

But in reality these are all "cosmetic" issues and in themselves aren't going to change MNR overnight. There are tons of coins already trying these methods.  They all copy off each other in some way and they all have their own set of issues.  A case of the "grass is always greener on the other side".

I'm going to take a detour and go a complete different direction.  If I were doing an alt coins this is the direction I'd "bank on" and figure out first.

If you really want to get down to it. MNR is a crypto-currency.  Currency being the keyword.  Almost all alt-coins simply fail at being a currency.  Sure you can trade the coins at an exchange but that's more like buying/selling stocks or commodities. Alt-coins are a bull/bear market for traders.

If MNR or any coin for that matter wants to become a "currency" that matters, it needs to establish EASY ways for people to use the currency.  First and foremost is easy to use wallets that common people can use on a computer, tablet or smart phone.  Smart phone use being key.  Then once you have this you need to get major merchants on board OR find an easy way for people to transfer MNR to a debit card, pre-paid visa/mc card, paypal account (which can be linked to CC), Google Wallet, Square, LevelUp, Venmo, etc.  To get an idea of some of these check out this: http://money.cnn.com/video/technology/2012/09/23/t-mobile-payments.cnnmoney/index.html?iid=F_Jump

Solve the above problem and you're an almost overnight top 2 to 5 coin and value will sky rocket as well as awareness without even having to market it (although you still want to market it).

I know some people (in general) are pushing hard for non-traceable transactions.  I wouldn't go that route on purpose IF a dev is going for big time currency use.  For example if you worked out a way for funds to be transferred to a debit card, pre-paid visa/mc card or similar, any type of coin with un-traceable transaction will have a very hard time getting excepted. The US FED and other Gov agencies have too much involvement in being able to trace transactions to allow that.  Think about law enforcement being able to solve crimes, etc.

What I've just expressed IS THE ACHILLES HEEL of alt coins in general. But solve or partner with companies already offering electronic payments and you got a game changer in the works.

Carlo

I agree with all of the above.  Hybrid POW/POS will work if the coin generation is not increased.  You're spot on with coins needing to be a real currency too.  Actually achieving it is the hard part.  Unfortunately most people seem to be obsessed with mining and internal crypto community issues instead of focussing on what's important.

[Soul_eater_123]

I've been looking around and currently there seems to be a lot of interest in the betting system being implemented with Minerals.  It would be a real world use for the currency. How would people feel about something similar with MNR?  Obviously with any kind of gambling there are ethical concerns.

Was also having some thoughts about a kind of 2 wallet system where you have one wallet which is like a high interest savings account but has a delayed withdrawal system to prevent spending, and the other would be a lower staking spending wallet.  I'm not even sure if this can be done though.