Lauda
Legendary
 Offline
Activity: 2674
Merit: 2965
Terminated.
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May 02, 2014, 11:33:28 AM |
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This wiki page is pretty much usesless as it provides a single one-dimensional view of each currency.
For example in the case of instamines, you provide no blockchain data, no distribution data (bounties, giveaways), etc., and fail to consider the entire history of the coin. I would love to know the motivation behind the spin.
The whole thread is just nonsense. |
"The Times 03/Jan/2009 Chancellor on brink of second bailout for banks" 😼 Bitcoin Core ( onion) |
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Once a transaction has 6 confirmations, it is extremely unlikely that an attacker without at least 50% of the network's computation power would be able to reverse it.
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wasamata
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May 02, 2014, 12:51:55 PM |
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Are you like, deliberately excluding the worst distributed coin of all, NXT?
Theres no excuse pal, it is up there on the high market cap list.
Here you go: NXT coin-100 % insta pre mine shared by 70 early adopters.
Well, first line say "Second generation coins like Ripple, Mastercoin, Counterparty, etc are not incuded in this discussion.", so yes it seems it was deliberately excluded. Like it or lump it (I'm in the latter camp btw), NXT's distribution model was as it was, and only time will tell how much that is holding it back. But everything about the initial distribution is out in the open; nothing is hidden. The coins discussed in this article have large premines / fastmines / instamines that are hidden from sight and denied by the coin's core team; and any talk of them in the coin's thread marks you as a whining ranter (so they go off and make a moderated thread instead). Put aside the "NXT, fair or not?" debate (which everyone knows about), and let the scope of the study be what it is.Yes; incomplete and therefore misleading. |
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Whoisthelorax (OP)
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May 02, 2014, 03:31:52 PM |
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I wasn't going to do any second or third gen coins, as per the second sentence in my article which a few of you glossed over. I was simply targeting around 15 of the most popular bitcoin clones. I have gotten a lot of requests for more coins...and since so many people want it...I don't see why not.
I will put up mastercoin, nxt, etc shortly.
feel free to post solid links about these coins with useful info if you want to help out.
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Whoisthelorax (OP)
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May 02, 2014, 03:36:56 PM |
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Is this the thread where I can cry if I missed a lunch?
no, but since you advertise darkcoin and blackcoin in your signature, would care to address the problems brought up in the article about these coins? What makes you confident about Blackcoin's 50 million mined coins in 3 days? What makes you confident about Darkcoin's 1.6 million instamine in its first 8 hours? there are about 4.2 million coins today. Dunno what's there to address. I saw the pre-announcements and specs for both those coins and immediately noticed the value in them. I was ready at the launch and started mining them. There were no problems for me. What I have a problem with though, is people who are too lazy to do any research on what coins are being launched and what their potential is. So they just mine whatever they mine (doge or ltc probably) and when some other coin starts gaining value they become pissed they didn't mine at start. So basically they want to let everyone else take the risk on new coins and when on some rare occasion that risk pays off they become jealous. Okay, this makes some sense to me...you have a stake in these coins. Btw, I have never mined a coin and I am not a miner. I'm looking to invest in coins and when I look at a coin's history, certain things turn me off to to them; namely, coins that distribute or generate really fast. If you want some of these coins that you mined like Blackcoin and Darkcoin to be used by regular people, you are going to need to address the crappy history sooner or later. |
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Spoetnik
Legendary
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Activity: 1540
Merit: 1011
FUD Philanthropist™
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May 02, 2014, 03:42:16 PM |
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Is this the thread where I can cry if I missed a lunch?
no, but since you advertise darkcoin and blackcoin in your signature, would care to address the problems brought up in the article about these coins? What makes you confident about Blackcoin's 50 million mined coins in 3 days? What makes you confident about Darkcoin's 1.6 million instamine in its first 8 hours? there are about 4.2 million coins today. Dunno what's there to address. I saw the pre-announcements and specs for both those coins and immediately noticed the value in them. I was ready at the launch and started mining them. There were no problems for me. What I have a problem with though, is people who are too lazy to do any research on what coins are being launched and what their potential is. So they just mine whatever they mine (doge or ltc probably) and when some other coin starts gaining value they become pissed they didn't mine at start. So basically they want to let everyone else take the risk on new coins and when on some rare occasion that risk pays off they become jealous. Okay, this makes some sense to me...you have a stake in these coins. Btw, I have never mined a coin and I am not a miner. I'm looking to invest in coins and when I look at a coin's history, certain things turn me off to to them; namely, coins that distribute or generate really fast. If you want some of these coins that you mined like Blackcoin and Darkcoin to be used by regular people, you are going to need to address the crappy history sooner or later. Dark coin dev said he thought about an air drop to give away coins to make up for the cheating instamine crap.. Vertcoin dev is actively looking out for Asic Resistance and denies any shady instamine crap.. which coin would you chose to invest in ? the one that admits a crime and the one that admits doing no wrong ? i am not investing in admitted scammers screw that shit ! |
FUD first & ask questions later™ |
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Whoisthelorax (OP)
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May 02, 2014, 03:46:00 PM |
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Honestly, when you don't even mention the fact that things like KGW came late to the crypto scene and most coins didn't launch with them, and then don't even mention NXT distribution once, this analysis could not be more bogus. I'm too lazy to look at original poster's post history, but I think it will turn out he's trying to promote some ridiculous coin nobody has ever heard of that has a seemingly fair mine because 0 people mined it like the Cryptoshekel: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=394123.0You continue to speak as though everyone were a miner. Most of the people using these coins in the future will not be miners. Just because a coin didn't have KGW doesn't excuse the coin's poor start. Why would an investor look at a coin, see a large fastmine or instamine...and say "oh, well its not their fault, really, they didn't have kimoto's gravity well. I should use this coin anyway, they tried really hard." Nope, that isn't going to happen. KGW isn't apart of the analysis because to someone wanting to use the coin (not necessarily mine it), all they see is that the coin wasn't up to par at the beginning. ---- and also...great speculation there. you want to armchair criticize my post to hell and back...and you want to sling accusations while openly saying you are too lazy to find out if your accusation is true. :hands clapping: |
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r0ach
Legendary
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Activity: 1260
Merit: 1000
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May 03, 2014, 01:23:19 AM |
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You continue to speak as though everyone were a miner. Most of the people using these coins in the future will not be miners.
Just because a coin didn't have KGW doesn't excuse the coin's poor start. Why would an investor look at a coin, see a large fastmine or instamine...and say "oh, well its not their fault, really, they didn't have kimoto's gravity well. I should use this coin anyway, they tried really hard."
Nope, that isn't going to happen.
Assuming this is what you believe, then 99% of your article should have been discussing why you think NXT, or any IPO coin in general will never succeed, but neither subject is mentioned at all. Going back and reading your article and all your replies in this thread, virtually everything you type is anti-miner in general. It seems you believe "mining" is an invalid distribution method, and everyone should be forced to just buy all their coins in some kind of shady IPO where the user can't even verify if it's a scam or not and just has to throw money at the screen hoping for the best. Perhaps you should read my post on why IPOs are generally a scam and don't belong on this site. I'm not sure you really even understand exactly what Bitcoin is in the first place. The mining distribution method is 100% mandatory for it's goals as summarized in my quote and article below: "The normal Bitcoin protocol was not designed to be issued for profit, or to have a central issuing authority. It was designed to be a trust free system where others work to acquire it through mining, and for any reward to be independent of the creator."This goal is not accomplished without miners https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=443196.0 |
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Whoisthelorax (OP)
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May 03, 2014, 03:45:30 AM |
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I am moving Vertcoin to the questionable category. Their very slow block halving or 4 years is commendable in comparison to some of these scam coins that cut down blocks every few weeks. If they didn't have the "unintended" fastmine, they could have qualified for the Acceptable status. They are essentially what Litecoin was when Litecoin was 5 months old; a rather hefty fastmine (Litecoin had 4.5 million coins by their 5th month with 450K Litecoins being slammed mined. Vertcoin will be 600k VTC to around 4.2 million. a little worse but comparable...).
I haven't come across any information that suggests foul play for Vertcoin. The evidence of their mine may have been purely unintentional but it doesn't encourage me as an investor. That is different than what many of the coins in the "bad" category do in terms of "encouragement", to say the least. Until I hear of evidence of foul play, I am leaving them in the questionable category.
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Whoisthelorax (OP)
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May 03, 2014, 04:06:18 AM |
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You continue to speak as though everyone were a miner. Most of the people using these coins in the future will not be miners.
Just because a coin didn't have KGW doesn't excuse the coin's poor start. Why would an investor look at a coin, see a large fastmine or instamine...and say "oh, well its not their fault, really, they didn't have kimoto's gravity well. I should use this coin anyway, they tried really hard."
Nope, that isn't going to happen.
Assuming this is what you believe, then 99% of your article should have been discussing why you think NXT, or any IPO coin in general will never succeed, but neither subject is mentioned at all. Going back and reading your article and all your replies in this thread, virtually everything you type is anti-miner in general. It seems you believe "mining" is an invalid distribution method, and everyone should be forced to just buy all their coins in some kind of shady IPO where the user can't even verify if it's a scam or not and just has to throw money at the screen hoping for the best. Perhaps you should read my post on why IPOs are generally a scam and don't belong on this site. I'm not sure you really even understand exactly what Bitcoin is in the first place. The mining distribution method is 100% mandatory for it's goals as summarized in my quote and article below: "The normal Bitcoin protocol was not designed to be issued for profit, or to have a central issuing authority. It was designed to be a trust free system where others work to acquire it through mining, and for any reward to be independent of the creator."This goal is not accomplished without miners https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=443196.0I'll check out what you wrote. FYI, I am adding NXT and others. It was an easy way out for me to shorten my article. I wasn't planning on doing something so comprehensive. It looks like it may become that. WRT the anti miner position....close, you are getting at something in my writing. I'm against miners who mine coins with the sole intention of trading it into BTC/fiat and aren't in it for the revolution sake. Particularly, I am against miners who mine scam coins and flood social media (and by extension regular internet media) with all this hype about complete crap. ...I am fed up with substandard Bitcoin alternatives. Correct me if I'm wrong, but many of these scam coins that come out are scams that benefit someone mining those coins. If a coin can demonstrate fair play in mining, I'm willing to use their coin. If they can't, I won't. I see two main problems that are fueling this alt coin hydra; ignorant investors and unscrupulous miners. Hopefully, my articles will inform some investors and simultaneously put all those miners on ALERT who mine coins with questionable distribution practices. Why do they mine them? Not because it's going to be a revolutionary currency. Because it will make them money. I'm sick of hearing about all these people who mine coins to sell them into bitcoins. Great, we now have a subset of the cryptocurrency revolution who is leeching the new members of our group ("investors") with less than stellar coins in an attempt to get paid. I don't know about you, but I want to see massive changes in how the world views money and what we call money. The explosion of alts makes it so that only a fraction of these coins will appreciate in value long term, let alone survive in 5-10 years. For every 10 new investors/regular people who also want to see currency change, how many do you think will be pleased with their results entering this game? I would suspect less than 3 of 10. The other 7 out of 10 will lose a significant portion of what they invest. That isn't going to produce a good growth curve for cryptocurrencies in general. The solution, IMO, is to try and hold people (devs, miners, and investors/users) to very high standards when dealing with alt coins. Let the miners and developers know that the investment crowd isn't going to pony up unless you ACTUALLY HAVE SOMETHING better than bitcoin. The more miners call out and protect others from bad investments, the quicker we can clean up the garbage. Everyone wins if someone actually creates something better than bitcoin. That should be the goal. |
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fisheater
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May 03, 2014, 04:20:36 AM |
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funny article, clearly the author does not have enough time to do deep investigations. Infinitecoin, for example, has no premine/instamine, and its distribution model is a fast distribution model that halves each month (the first that define this model). Author has no idea and mixed many scamcoins with good ones, did not really tell people which are good ones.
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fisheater
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May 03, 2014, 04:31:49 AM |
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Honestly, when you don't even mention the fact that things like KGW came late to the crypto scene and most coins didn't launch with them, and then don't even mention NXT distribution once, this analysis could not be more bogus. I'm too lazy to look at original poster's post history, but I think it will turn out he's trying to promote some ridiculous coin nobody has ever heard of that has a seemingly fair mine because 0 people mined it like the Cryptoshekel: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=394123.0I laugh at this when I hear KGW, do you know how peercoin does the retarget calculation? The KGW simply re-invented the wheel, and those who don't understand anything just know the name, and don't know what it is about. |
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illodin
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May 03, 2014, 11:43:20 AM |
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Okay, this makes some sense to me...you have a stake in these coins.
Yes, I try to have a stake in coins that are easily and cheaply available, and will likely 100x my investment. I really recommend that approach to you too.  Btw, I have never mined a coin and I am not a miner. I'm looking to invest in coins and when I look at a coin's history, certain things turn me off to to them; namely, coins that distribute or generate really fast.
You don't have to be a miner to be there at launch. Every coin has multiple times the people selling them in these forums immediately after launch than buying. Again, if you're not willing to take the risk, don't complain if you're not getting the reward. You can't have it both ways. If you want some of these coins that you mined like Blackcoin and Darkcoin to be used by regular people, you are going to need to address the crappy history sooner or later.
What "regular people" will possibly start using in the future has nothing to do with the mining rate. |
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Cryptofun2.0
Newbie
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May 03, 2014, 02:16:42 PM |
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Lets make a list of top coins too  |
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Spoetnik
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1540
Merit: 1011
FUD Philanthropist™
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May 03, 2014, 06:58:37 PM |
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I am moving Vertcoin to the questionable category. Their very slow block halving or 4 years is commendable in comparison to some of these scam coins that cut down blocks every few weeks. If they didn't have the "unintended" fastmine, they could have qualified for the Acceptable status. They are essentially what Litecoin was when Litecoin was 5 months old; a rather hefty fastmine (Litecoin had 4.5 million coins by their 5th month with 450K Litecoins being slammed mined. Vertcoin will be 600k VTC to around 4.2 million. a little worse but comparable...).
I haven't come across any information that suggests foul play for Vertcoin. The evidence of their mine may have been purely unintentional but it doesn't encourage me as an investor. That is different than what many of the coins in the "bad" category do in terms of "encouragement", to say the least. Until I hear of evidence of foul play, I am leaving them in the questionable category.
popularity is the context man you keep dodging it hard.. |
FUD first & ask questions later™ |
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Whoisthelorax (OP)
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May 04, 2014, 12:47:06 AM |
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NXT: where .0101 BTC (around $7 at the time of investment) invested earned you about 500,000 NXT
THE LOWEST NXT has traded since being recorded on coinmarketcap.com is .00326 on Dec 11th, shortly after it was trading on exchanges.
At that lowest rate, 500,000 NXT x .00326 = $1,630
How can you invest 7 dollars and within a month expect people to trade it for 1600 dollars?
Pure insanity. absolutely no "risk" for the the ipo investors.
AT THAT LOWEST RATE, NXT investors were getting over 230 times their investment back in less than a month. 230 times!!! Not 2x, 3x, 5,x or 10x. 230x. Don't even get me started on when the charts were topping out.
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Whoisthelorax (OP)
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May 04, 2014, 01:27:42 AM |
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Not sure if you noticed...Google actually changed the world. There was actual risk involved. What was the risk from the November IPO investment to the December sales in excess of 230x the investment price? Nobody uses NXT You can't hardly get anything for NXT So why the ridiculous premium? |
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