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niothor
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April 30, 2014, 10:11:44 AM |
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There is a lot of work you put into this , I must congratulate you for this.
Worth reading and comparing the coins when you're done with it and double check it.
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I HATE TABLES I HATE TABLES I HA(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻ TABLES I HATE TABLES I HATE TABLES
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maarx
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April 30, 2014, 10:15:12 AM |
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Blackcoin: the first 5000 blocks were POW. After block 5000, POS kicked in. You will find about 7500 POW blocks and 2500 POS blocks in the first 10000. Hence the ~75 million coins.
That's why you dont find any POS blocks pre 5000.
Blackcoin was fully mined in ~7 days. Most miners dumped the coin (it went from 3000 satoshi to 500). At price 500, it stayed for ~2 weeks with low interest. Investors picked the coin up and took it to where it is now. Most people who have blackcoin bought it in when it was cheaper than to mine.
That's the blackcoin side of the story.
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IloveAnonCoin
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April 30, 2014, 10:16:43 AM |
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THE FACTS ABOUT DARK COIN
1. released without windows QT so that only dev and pals could mine it.
2. Instamined harder than any other coin out there 12.5% of the current minting was mined in the first day
3. Later they decided to cut the minting by 75% to turn their 12.5% instamine with no windows QT into 50% instamine in 24hours - nice hey
yes that is correct they mined 50% of all the coins available at this time by themselves in the first 24 hours whilst windows users could not mine.
That is the facts.... doesn't matter what else they say... nothing can change what they have done.
Once zero coin, or bytecoin with a decent wallet it released or another darkcoin clone is released.... dark coin will sink like a stone.
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niothor
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April 30, 2014, 10:21:20 AM |
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THE FACTS ABOUT DARK COIN
1. released without windows QT so that only dev and pals could mine it.
2. Instamined harder than any other coin out there 12.5% of the current minting was mined in the first day
3. Later they decided to cut the minting by 75% to turn their 12.5% instamine with no windows QT into 50% instamine in 24hours - nice hey
yes that is correct they mined 50% of all the coins available at this time by themselves in the first 24 hours whilst windows users could not mine.
That is the facts.... doesn't matter what else they say... nothing can change what they have done.
Once zero coin, or bytecoin with a decent wallet it released or another darkcoin clone is released.... dark coin will sink like a stone.
This is from the website...will have to compare the data to give a verdict on this one Darkcoin
The following data and time stamps were collected from the Darkcoin blockchain 14).
Block 1: 2014-01-19 Time: 3:54:41
Block 1000 : 2014-01-19 Time: 4:33:39
Block 2000: 2014-01-19 Time: 06:25:47
Block 3000: 2014-01-19 Time: 09:10:16
Block 3250: 2014-01-19 Time: 11:22:11
Looking at this data, we see that Darkcoin was mined with 500 DRK generated per block from the get go. From block 1 to at least block 3250, according to their blockchain, they were still producing 500 coins each block. The transition from 500 to 277 coins per block occurs between 3250 and 3500 but this author did not see the necessity of getting the exact moment of halving. Simple math shows that 3250 blocks multiplied by 500 coins a block is 1,625,000 Darkcoins created between the times of 3:54 and 11:22 on January 19th, 2014. As of today there are around 4,300,000 DRK in existence, making this a pretty hefty instamine. The Darkcoin website expects around 22,000,000 DRK to be created. That means in less than 8 hours, almost 5% of the Darkcoins that ever will be created spawned in that 1/3 of a day. It's safe to say Darkcoin has left it's investors in the dark on this one. |
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notsoshifty
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April 30, 2014, 10:49:53 AM |
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Interesting article. Proper analysis about exactly why an instamine is unfair would be good. These two aren't major altcoins at all, but you can look at: - Limecoin (LC, the Scrypt one; not the X11 one). 75% of all coins ever were mined in 48 minutes. See: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=579604.msg6436534#msg6436534 - Hashcoin. 3 million coin fast mine (compare with current reward of 37500 per day) . See: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=568453.msg6371890#msg6371890Plus, XXLCoin is currently fighting 1st/2nd place voting for Mintpal, and yet it has a huge premine (30% of current coins; 13% of all coins that will ever be mined). Mintpal doesn't even have DOGE/Altcoin markets so I don't know how that's going to work when there are 314 billion coins now and a 13%-30% premine. See: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=442107.msg6470346#msg6470346Mention any of this in the thread and you just get flamed down by dev & chums & the lucky ones that benefitted from fastmine. I've given up. I think people don't care. |
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Globb0
Legendary
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Activity: 2674
Merit: 2053
Free spirit
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April 30, 2014, 10:56:44 AM |
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As an investing non miner I really don't care the how when who of mining and neither will average joe when he gets into cryptos.
Really irrelevant now considering how many are 50%-100% premine.
Doesn't matter how they start, what matters is who holds them over time.
2 of your statements seem incongruent. not at all, exchanges overtime is the real distribution method, no matter the how when why or who of mining. I mean you cant not care about the how and the when of mining and then say what matters is who holds them over time. Because in the case of the worst offenders, someone is holding a huge lump of coin and can destroy the market at any time they chose or when your innocent traders get the price to a certain point, dump dump dump. That's all I meant, I know what you mean about traders wont care (or more accurately will probably never know and wouldn't necessarily see it as relevant to their day trading only looking for price trends) the thing is those trends are potentially exposed to faking by the first part of the equation (prem/inst whales) so unequivocally linked. |
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r0ach
Legendary
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Activity: 1260
Merit: 1000
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April 30, 2014, 11:05:11 AM |
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Proper analysis about exactly why an instamine is unfair would be good.
It's a horrible analysis because he tries to claim not having KGW in an era when little or no coins had KGW systems makes you a scamcoin. He even lists Dogecoin up there. I was one of the first 50 people on the planet to mine Dogecoin. It had no exchange near launch, when an exchange did come online (Coinedup), it was worth absolutely nothing. I could have mined something more profitable, but I mined Dogecoin anyway while looking at the screen and saying, WOW, I just made 2 cents. Nobody knew it would be worth a damn thing. |
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Lauda
Legendary
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Activity: 2674
Merit: 2965
Terminated.
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April 30, 2014, 11:42:03 AM |
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wow bitcoin on the list too? but i guess we can all forgive bitcoin?  Bitcoin wasn't instamined, fastmined or whatever. i saw the list from OP saw bitcoin, but i was wrong i should have read that link first. now that you mentioned it, i went and read that weblink, very interesting read indeed. every newbie should be pointed to read that article first before investing anything. I'll visit it once my VPN gets fixed. This way he can get my IP easily. Anyhow: I'm not a newbie, nor do I use the altcoin section that often these days. After a while passes, you just know which coins to look at and which to avoid. |
"The Times 03/Jan/2009 Chancellor on brink of second bailout for banks" 😼 Bitcoin Core ( onion) |
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notsoshifty
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April 30, 2014, 11:48:37 AM |
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Proper analysis about exactly why an instamine is unfair would be good.
It's a horrible analysis because he tries to claim not having KGW in an era when little or no coins had KGW systems makes you a scamcoin. He even lists Dogecoin up there. I was one of the first 50 people on the planet to mine Dogecoin. It had no exchange near launch, when an exchange did come online (Coinedup), it was worth absolutely nothing. I could have mined something more profitable, but I mined Dogecoin anyway while looking at the screen and saying, WOW, I just made 2 cents. Nobody knew it would be worth a damn thing. Well, Doge is in the "Acceptable Altcoins" category with a "paltry instamine"; he doesn't call it a scamcoin. The KGW point on old coins is valid (although I'm personally more interested in evaluating new coins, not old/established ones). By "Proper analysis about exactly why an instamine is unfair would be good" I mean the study should go into details of why instamine necessarily means that the dev, rather than random miners who are online at the time, gets the lion's share of the coins. Because those pulling off the instamines come up with countless excuses why it's still fair ("I only mined a few blocks myself, honest guv!"). |
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kelsey
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1876
Merit: 1000
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April 30, 2014, 11:56:02 AM |
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As an investing non miner I really don't care the how when who of mining and neither will average joe when he gets into cryptos.
Really irrelevant now considering how many are 50%-100% premine.
Doesn't matter how they start, what matters is who holds them over time.
2 of your statements seem incongruent. not at all, exchanges overtime is the real distribution method, no matter the how when why or who of mining. I mean you cant not care about the how and the when of mining and then say what matters is who holds them over time. Because in the case of the worst offenders, someone is holding a huge lump of coin and can destroy the market at any time they chose or when your innocent traders get the price to a certain point, dump dump dump. That's all I meant, I know what you mean about traders wont care (or more accurately will probably never know and wouldn't necessarily see it as relevant to their day trading only looking for price trends) the thing is those trends are potentially exposed to faking by the first part of the equation (prem/inst whales) so unequivocally linked. On the stock market, major holders holding larger percentages is viewed as extremely positive  its average joe mindless sheep that panic. |
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reRaise
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April 30, 2014, 12:06:32 PM |
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This makes Quark fair as fuck if you compare it to the first group of coins on that list.
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gondel
Legendary
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Activity: 1946
Merit: 1005
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April 30, 2014, 12:09:31 PM |
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Hi,
When i started mining XPM it was 2.5$, when it reached to 7$-8$ i was addicted to this, it was like a drug! But , o well, now one XPM is less then 50 cents..
BR,
Gondel
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niothor
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April 30, 2014, 12:14:30 PM |
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This makes Quark fair as fuck if you compare it to the first group of coins on that list.
Juts like some people don't mind if their neighbor is a rapist , but they are scared as hell if he is a murderer. |
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r0ach
Legendary
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Activity: 1260
Merit: 1000
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April 30, 2014, 12:16:40 PM |
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Well, Doge is in the "Acceptable Altcoins" category with a "paltry instamine"; he doesn't call it a scamcoin.
The KGW point on old coins is valid (although I'm personally more interested in evaluating new coins, not old/established ones).
He kind of refers to Vertcoin as a scamcoin as well, solely due to launching with regular Litecoin difficulty and not KGW. Even though after it hit exchanges, it sold for less than 0.0001 for a week or more? It doesn't really matter how many miners picked up, there was a ton for sale on the exchange for absolutely nothing. Look at my quote below from January to prove it. You would have been better off not mining Vertcoin AT ALL, mining Litecoin instead, then selling the Litecoin to purchase Vertcoin on an exchange. There was basically no early miner reward. Price going up, should hit .0001 soon.
I sure hope so. at the current rate it's less profitable that LTC to mine. I'm happy to keep a nice stash set aside for the future, but I need to pay my electricity bills. |
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reRaise
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April 30, 2014, 12:26:50 PM |
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This makes Quark fair as fuck if you compare it to the first group of coins on that list.
Juts like some people don't mind if their neighbor is a rapist , but they are scared as hell if he is a murderer. His comparison proves you wrong and you agreed with him, now you are just nitpicking because you don't have anything to say, keep it real my man. |
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niothor
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April 30, 2014, 12:31:34 PM |
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This makes Quark fair as fuck if you compare it to the first group of coins on that list.
Juts like some people don't mind if their neighbor is a rapist , but they are scared as hell if he is a murderer. His investigation proves you wrong and you agreed with him, now you are just trolling because you don't have anything to say, keep it real my man. The expression you used proves that you don't believe that quark distribution was one to brag about on fairness. And let me guess... quak bagholder? |
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reRaise
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April 30, 2014, 12:40:37 PM |
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This makes Quark fair as fuck if you compare it to the first group of coins on that list.
Juts like some people don't mind if their neighbor is a rapist , but they are scared as hell if he is a murderer. His investigation proves you wrong and you agreed with him, now you are just trolling because you don't have anything to say, keep it real my man. The expression you used proves that you don't believe that quark distribution was one to brag about on fairness. And let me guess... quak bagholder? I've all kind of coins including quark dr.phil, thats why i said 'compared to the first group of coins' it's much more fair. If your job is to nitpick coins then you are at the wrong coin my friend since there are much worse ones to get you going. Also what coins were you holding again? |
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noerc
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April 30, 2014, 12:40:46 PM |
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Thank you for this comprehensive article. Blackcoin: the first 5000 blocks were POW. After block 5000, POS kicked in. You will find about 7500 POW blocks and 2500 POS blocks in the first 10000. Hence the ~75 million coins.
That's why you dont find any POS blocks pre 5000.
Blackcoin was fully mined in ~7 days. Most miners dumped the coin (it went from 3000 satoshi to 500). At price 500, it stayed for ~2 weeks with low interest. Investors picked the coin up and took it to where it is now. Most people who have blackcoin bought it in when it was cheaper than to mine.
That's the blackcoin side of the story.
Could the author incorporate this information into the analysis on BlackCoin? I would greatly be interested in his/her opinion on that now since the assumption about missing PoS blocks during the hybrid PoW/PoS phase is invalid given the quote from maarx above. |
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Daedelus
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April 30, 2014, 12:45:05 PM |
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I think the main point was that the distributions of these coins were so quick that few could take part means it could be considered premined (referred to as a soft premine/instamine, one of the two is used).
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niothor
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April 30, 2014, 12:46:28 PM |
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I think the main point was that the distributions of these coins were so quick that few could take part means it could be considered premined (referred to as a soft premine/instamine, one of the two is used).
That was indeed the point. If you start expanding the time frame... hell !!! even BTC will look premined to a guy born in 2545. |
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