Sia - Siafund Redemption Deadline: June 1st, 2015

[Taek]

Please Google 'Permacoin', Microsoft wants to create this Permacoin, it mentions storage thing.
I think there maybe some similar ideas with sia?

So I guess I'll start with my concerns, because it's good to recognize the things that scare you. First, this has Microsoft's name all over it, which is hyper intimidating. That's something MaidSAFE, Cryptosphere, Bitcloud don't have behind them. Out of those competitors, the best will win because nobody has marketing power. With Microsoft backing something, it could win even it it's outright toxic to its users. So that's got me on edge. Second, this paper has a lot of intellectual clout behind it. Microsoft Research, Google is mentioned, Gregory Maxwell is mentioned. They're coming from a strong position.

"Large datacen-
ters enjoy economies of scale and save costs on bulk power
and cooling; even Amazon Glacier, which, as mentioned in
Section 6, most closely matches our operating points (cheap
to store, expensive to recover), is much cheaper per gigabyte
and offers similar features like geographic replication of data"

So, if I'm reading this correctly, they claim that Amazon Glacier is much cheaper per GB than permacoin. This will not-even-close to be true for Sia. Sia is the cheapest, fastest, best distributed system I've read about, and Permacoin doesn't appear to be able to make the same claims.

They don't use quorums, which will probably prevent them from being able to come close. Also, Microsoft's name is on it, but it seems to be a research idea and not part of the Microsoft product line, which is reassuring for Sia.

I need to give this paper a lot more time to fully understand it, but the approach is considerably different from Sia (though they use many of the same tricks). Sia's goal has become to provide cheap, fast, robust/redundant storage, and all of our design decisions are based around optimizing for that.

But at the very least it's clear that Sia is not alone. I wonder if Google or Amazon or Apple will step forward into this space. It's a very hot place to be and they've got access to some of the brightest minds in the world.

[1714793237]

1714793237

[1714793237]

1714793237

[ownerbest]

Now, I admire your technology and market judgment more than before.
If sia comes out as planned, there is no doubt that sia will be something huge.
Just go for it!

[Tobo]

Please Google 'Permacoin', Microsoft wants to create this Permacoin, it mentions storage thing.
I think there maybe some similar ideas with sia?

Interesting. Microsoft is sponsoring a decentralized solution. It sounds weird.

[blackhatzw]

How can  I get some coins now

[schnötzel]

How can  I get some coins now

Nxt Asset (always good to read 1st page  )

[blackhatzw]

How can  I get some coins now

Nxt Asset (always good to read 1st page  )

sianote in nxt asset has been sold out.

[PondSea]

How can  I get some coins now

Nxt Asset (always good to read 1st page  )

sianote in nxt asset has been sold out.

People are selling it, but not from the issuer

[loveyouforever]

Is there an IPO for this coin, I know pre-IPO has ended.

[Taek]

So, the pre-IPO has ended, but you can still get pre-IPO shares by visiting the NXT AE and getting the Sianotes. Within the next few days we'll be updating the website to explain what Sianotes are, how to get them, and what Sianotes are not. Before spending significant sums of money, you should be confident about what exactly a Sianote can be traded for. Depending on how much money we have and need, and how much attention we get from Venture Capitalists, we may or may not do an IPO. Siastock is going to be our primary form of income, so we are looking to hold onto a lot of that. Siacoin on the other hand is inflationary, so distribution problems should never be an issue. Early on, we'll probably be giving away a good amount of Siacoin to encourage people to use the network.  I'm not committing to anything though because a lot will be changing between now and launch.

I've got most of the wallet stuff worked out (and now partially implemented), so I'm going to go ahead and explain the workings a bit.

First, everything on Sia is script oriented. Instead of needing transactions to be signed by some authority (like the owner of a wallet), they only need to be approved by a script. This script is turing complete (though you'll get cut off if you run too long - the process is a bit more flexible and complicated than that but I'll save it for another post) and takes some input, which is processed before the script submits some actions to the network.

By doing this, you can emulate the use of public keys. Imagine that the first N bytes are a script that looks at the M bytes following the script, and M is a public key. The N bytes look at the input and assume that the first R bytes are a signature of the remaining bytes. If the signature matches the public key stored on disk, the input is accepted and run as the script.

But you can also allow for purely algorithmic actions. For example, you could have a script that takes as input a transaction (this is allowed - you can send money to a script and have it accompanied by input to the wallet script) and then generate a random number (scripts have access to the quorum's secure random number generator) between 0 and 6. If the number is 6, then 4 times the input is returned to the sender. You now have completely decentralized gambling run by a wallet that needs no interfacing to a third party.

But because scripts are turing complete, you can do much fancier things as well. Email, for example. Someone sends you an email by doing a transaction with an input message. The script then takes the message and stores it to disk automatically, but only accepts the message if the transaction contains enough to store the message for N days.

You could even potentially store an entire altcoin on Sia using script logic. Imagine that the input is a Bitcoin block. The script then figures out if the block is valid and stores it in memory, rejecting it otherwise. You then have a decentralized, automated archive for the Bitcoin blockchain that's secure and is being stored at a low redundancy. No central authorities or signatures necessary. So, it's a very powerful system (though it's got some constraints because it's not super efficient - probably 200-500x as expensive as doing it on your local machine. In terms of running Bitcoin though it's better, because it's a 1 time cost of 200-500x, as opposed to 1x times the number of nodes on the Bitcoin network.) The minimum size for a wallet is 4kb stored at redundancy 127 across 3 snapshots (the snapshot system allows for verifications and allows people to listen on quorums without needing the full list of scripts, which could potentially be very large - that's also going to be in another post), which is 4kb * 127 * 3 = ~1.5mb. This probably sounds like a lot, but assuming 1TB of raw storage gets priced around $5/mo, a wallet is going to run something like 0.001 cents per year. Very, very affordable.

I'm not sure what the max size for a script is going to be, but scripts are going to have the same required 127*3 redundancy, so they'll be moderately expensive. While the limit will probably be small (like 1mb), there will be techniques that allow you to chain multiple scripts together across wallets.

[ownerbest]

Good work, can't wait to see the wallet and scripts, 

[xibeijan]

way overpriced

[Taek]

way overpriced

Would you like to justify that? Right now Siastock has a market cap somewhere around $2m, which is in the top 30 coins. But Sia easily has enough potential to overtake all of the trivial coins, which would put its cap above $10m. But the potential here is a lot bigger than that. We're storage in a coin, and we do the storage part better than MaidSAFE, which has a much higher price than Sia.

The only reason that Sia is not worth substantial more is that the coin is not complete yet. But we're very close to having an alpha that people will be able to play around with. I reckon we can have an alpha out by July 1st with file storage (not done), proof-of-storage (mostly done), wallet transactions (mostly done), script wallets (done - at least done as far as alpha goes), and quorum based byzantine consensus (done for a while).

[msin]

way overpriced

way underpriced

[Momimaus]

way overpriced

Would you like to justify that? Right now Siastock has a market cap somewhere around $2m, which is in the top 30 coins. But Sia easily has enough potential to overtake all of the trivial coins, which would put its cap above $10m. But the potential here is a lot bigger than that. We're storage in a coin, and we do the storage part better than MaidSAFE, which has a much higher price than Sia.

The only reason that Sia is not worth substantial more is that the coin is not complete yet. But we're very close to having an alpha that people will be able to play around with. I reckon we can have an alpha out by July 1st with file storage (not done), proof-of-storage (mostly done), wallet transactions (mostly done), script wallets (done - at least done as far as alpha goes), and quorum based byzantine consensus (done for a while).

sounds good bro

[gs02xzz]

way underpriced

Agreed. Sia is not a crypto currency like bitcoin and its clone. It is a business model for data storage. There is a big utility and demand for it on the market. There is no comparison between Sia and current crypto currencies. Maybe the closest one is Maidsafe. But Maidsafe is not in production yet.

[Taek]

Alright it took a while, but the website is finally updated with information on Sianotes and how to buy them. Thanks for the patience!

[msin]

Alright it took a while, but the website is finally updated with information on Sianotes and how to buy them. Thanks for the patience!

+1, http://www.siacoin.com for those too lazy to read OP

[PondSea]

way overpriced

Would you like to justify that? Right now Siastock has a market cap somewhere around $2m, which is in the top 30 coins. But Sia easily has enough potential to overtake all of the trivial coins, which would put its cap above $10m. But the potential here is a lot bigger than that. We're storage in a coin, and we do the storage part better than MaidSAFE, which has a much higher price than Sia.

The only reason that Sia is not worth substantial more is that the coin is not complete yet. But we're very close to having an alpha that people will be able to play around with. I reckon we can have an alpha out by July 1st with file storage (not done), proof-of-storage (mostly done), wallet transactions (mostly done), script wallets (done - at least done as far as alpha goes), and quorum based byzantine consensus (done for a while).

Can't wait :-)

[Tobo]

Isle of Man can be an option if legal issues in US are too troublesome - https://nxtforum.org/general-discussion/nxt-crypto-valley-its-time-to-get-serious!/msg46069/#msg46069
 

[PondSea]

Dev would you be able to give us weekly progress reports if it is not too much of a issue?