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Question: Should "bits" become the standard for merchant pricing, wallets and general usage.
Bitcoin best as the common unit. 0.001234 is ok - 108 (14.1%)
milliBitcoins (thousandths) are best - 90 (11.7%)
Bits (millionths) are best - 570 (74.2%)
Total Voters: 768

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Author Topic: 1,000,000 bits = 1 bitcoin. Future-proofing Bitcoin for common usage? VOTE  (Read 56284 times)
Ceuri
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June 23, 2014, 09:54:54 AM
 #421

Because the psychology of numbers influences the perceived value of said good. It's perfectly fine to criticize the word "bits", but I fear those critics are missing the point of this debate: we need to price goods as whole numbers, regardless of the naming convention.
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June 23, 2014, 10:49:36 AM
 #422

Why bits? Because people are conditioned since birth to think of prices as whole numbers. There's a reason retailers price their goods and services at $19.99, $24.95, $99, etc.

Think of convenience... Any time a cashier or whoever tells you hoe much u owe, the would have to say a decimal number which can be awkward for those involved prikarily outside the sciences... In casual conversation, speaking of decimals seems awkward.
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June 23, 2014, 10:51:00 AM
 #423

Because the psychology of numbers influences the perceived value of said good. It's perfectly fine to criticize the word "bits", but I fear those critics are missing the point of this debate: we need to price goods as whole numbers, regardless of the naming convention.

In most crafts the laymen speak in terms of units such that the number is on an order of magnitude which moat people have intuition with (from my experience). It sorta awkward like forcing a chemist expressing small to express how much a small sample weighs in metric tons. While an interesting mind experience most currently involved with btc have done, it can be a little difficult and painful for casual use.
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June 23, 2014, 11:04:58 AM
 #424

Why bits? Because people are conditioned since birth to think of prices as whole numbers. There's a reason retailers price their goods and services at $19.99, $24.95, $99, etc.

No one who's arguing against bits is against whole numbers, but just for using the already existing, logical connotations: mBTC and uBTC. And don't tell me about people who don't get the decimal system - everyone knows kilobytes, megabytes and gigabytes - milli and micro are just in the opposite direction.
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June 23, 2014, 11:17:04 AM
 #425

Because the psychology of numbers influences the perceived value of said good. It's perfectly fine to criticize the word "bits", but I fear those critics are missing the point of this debate: we need to price goods as whole numbers, regardless of the naming convention.

You have it backwards.  A study of the comments in this thread will reveal that a good number of the critics are distinguishing the term "bits" from the notion of switching to a different unit to avoid unintuitive decimal prices, and indeed generally support the latter.  However, the vast majority of pro-"bits" posts conflate these two ideas.  Here are some recent examples:

+1 for bits.
Using bitcoin is weird for small transactions like 0.00327

This is an excellent idea. It is a lot easier to wrap your brain around buying 1000 bits instead of a row of zeros following a decimal point.

Why bits? Because people are conditioned since birth to think of prices as whole numbers. There's a reason retailers price their goods and services at $19.99, $24.95, $99, etc.

As you can see, each poster supports "bits" because they dislike fractional prices.  They completely fail to see that the dichotomy is false.
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June 23, 2014, 11:22:12 AM
 #426

And don't tell me about people who don't get the decimal system - everyone knows kilobytes, megabytes and gigabytes - milli and micro are just in the opposite direction.

No, I do feel like telling you about people that don't get SI prefixes -- college freshman in general chemistry, in fact. I recall giving out a quiz last semester in which one of the answers had to be expressed in gigajoules. Only about a third of the class knew the conversion from joules. And this was the honors class!
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June 23, 2014, 11:23:45 AM
 #427

Why bits? Because people are conditioned since birth to think of prices as whole numbers. There's a reason retailers price their goods and services at $19.99, $24.95, $99, etc.

No one who's arguing against bits is against whole numbers, but just for using the already existing, logical connotations: mBTC and uBTC. And don't tell me about people who don't get the decimal system - everyone knows kilobytes, megabytes and gigabytes - milli and micro are just in the opposite direction.

This is why I firmly advocate the usage of millibitcoin and microbitcoin over this silly business of "bits". We need to encourage scientific literacy, not subvert it.
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June 23, 2014, 11:26:01 AM
 #428

And don't tell me about people who don't get the decimal system - everyone knows kilobytes, megabytes and gigabytes - milli and micro are just in the opposite direction.

No, I do feel like telling you about people that don't get SI prefixes -- college freshman in general chemistry, in fact. I recall giving out a quiz last semester in which one of the answers had to be expressed in gigajoules. Only about a third of the class knew the conversion from joules. And this was the honors class!

Sad.

Our family was terrorized by Homeland Security.  Read all about it here:  http://www.jmwagner.com/ and http://www.burtw.com/  Any donations to help us recover from the $300,000 in legal fees and forced donations to the Federal Asset Forfeiture slush fund are greatly appreciated!
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June 23, 2014, 11:33:55 AM
 #429

Because the psychology of numbers influences the perceived value of said good. It's perfectly fine to criticize the word "bits", but I fear those critics are missing the point of this debate: we need to price goods as whole numbers, regardless of the naming convention.

You have it backwards.  A study of the comments in this thread will reveal that a good number of the critics are distinguishing the term "bits" from the notion of switching to a different unit to avoid unintuitive decimal prices, and indeed generally support the latter.  However, the vast majority of pro-"bits" posts conflate these two ideas.  Here are some recent examples:

+1 for bits.
Using bitcoin is weird for small transactions like 0.00327

This is an excellent idea. It is a lot easier to wrap your brain around buying 1000 bits instead of a row of zeros following a decimal point.

Why bits? Because people are conditioned since birth to think of prices as whole numbers. There's a reason retailers price their goods and services at $19.99, $24.95, $99, etc.

As you can see, each poster supports "bits" because they dislike fractional prices.  They completely fail to see that the dichotomy is false.


I love how the assumption is always that people who like the sounds of bits simply aren't clever enough to understand what you're saying.  It couldn't possibly be true that they just like the sound of bits and you're still a little disappointed that your preference didn't win, so it makes your ego feel a little less bruised if you work under the assumption that everyone else is stupid. 

Cry me a river and such.

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June 23, 2014, 11:51:52 AM
 #430

Why bits? Because people are conditioned since birth to think of prices as whole numbers. There's a reason retailers price their goods and services at $19.99, $24.95, $99, etc.

No one who's arguing against bits is against whole numbers, but just for using the already existing, logical connotations: mBTC and uBTC. And don't tell me about people who don't get the decimal system - everyone knows kilobytes, megabytes and gigabytes - milli and micro are just in the opposite direction.

College chemistry freshmen didn't know the prefix giga? I'm starting to think that all this bitcoin and innovation stuff is moot, as we are clearly stumbling into the future from Idiocracy!
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June 23, 2014, 11:58:01 AM
 #431

As you can see, each poster supports "bits" because they dislike fractional prices.  They completely fail to see that the dichotomy is false.
I agree that there are a lot of things being discussed in this thread - which is good.

Fractional pricing - almost everyone agrees this is bad.  From this one consensus comes many opinions on the next step.

Some like going to millibitcoin then microbitcoins when needed, other say jump to microbitcoins now.

Then it gets really interesting:  what to name millibitcions and/or microbitcoins (no need for nicknames, bits, zibs, millies, mikes, etc. etc.)

There are a lot of different opinions.  No one is being railroaded here.  It is all in great fun because the market will eventually decide this.


Our family was terrorized by Homeland Security.  Read all about it here:  http://www.jmwagner.com/ and http://www.burtw.com/  Any donations to help us recover from the $300,000 in legal fees and forced donations to the Federal Asset Forfeiture slush fund are greatly appreciated!
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June 23, 2014, 12:19:46 PM
 #432

College chemistry freshmen didn't know the prefix giga? I'm starting to think that all this bitcoin and innovation stuff is moot, as we are clearly stumbling into the future from Idiocracy!

I have this friend who got really strange results in his Bachelor's thesis because he got the decimal point wrong while entering a material constant into the simulation software Comsol Multiphysics. Decimal points are hard, even for chemistry or physics majors.
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June 23, 2014, 12:25:42 PM
 #433

Because the psychology of numbers influences the perceived value of said good. It's perfectly fine to criticize the word "bits", but I fear those critics are missing the point of this debate: we need to price goods as whole numbers, regardless of the naming convention.

You have it backwards.  A study of the comments in this thread will reveal that a good number of the critics are distinguishing the term "bits" from the notion of switching to a different unit to avoid unintuitive decimal prices, and indeed generally support the latter.  However, the vast majority of pro-"bits" posts conflate these two ideas.  Here are some recent examples:

+1 for bits.
Using bitcoin is weird for small transactions like 0.00327

This is an excellent idea. It is a lot easier to wrap your brain around buying 1000 bits instead of a row of zeros following a decimal point.

Why bits? Because people are conditioned since birth to think of prices as whole numbers. There's a reason retailers price their goods and services at $19.99, $24.95, $99, etc.

As you can see, each poster supports "bits" because they dislike fractional prices.  They completely fail to see that the dichotomy is false.


I love how the assumption is always that people who like the sounds of bits simply aren't clever enough to understand what you're saying.  It couldn't possibly be true that they just like the sound of bits and you're still a little disappointed that your preference didn't win, so it makes your ego feel a little less bruised if you work under the assumption that everyone else is stupid.  

Cry me a river and such.

I made no such assumption.  I made a single claim and supported it with no less than three very recent quotes from different posters.  Could you do this for posts along the lines of: "I voted for 'bits' because I like the sound of the word"?
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June 23, 2014, 12:29:19 PM
 #434

I made no such assumption.  I made a single claim and supported it with no less than three very recent quotes from different posters.  Could you do this for posts along the lines of: "I voted for 'bits' because I like the sound of the word"?
Here is one such post:  

I personally like "bits" as the nickname for microbitcoins for a variety of reasons which are all described above in my various posts on the subject.

Only two more to go.

Our family was terrorized by Homeland Security.  Read all about it here:  http://www.jmwagner.com/ and http://www.burtw.com/  Any donations to help us recover from the $300,000 in legal fees and forced donations to the Federal Asset Forfeiture slush fund are greatly appreciated!
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June 23, 2014, 12:40:40 PM
 #435

And don't tell me about people who don't get the decimal system - everyone knows kilobytes, megabytes and gigabytes - milli and micro are just in the opposite direction.

No, I do feel like telling you about people that don't get SI prefixes -- college freshman in general chemistry, in fact. I recall giving out a quiz last semester in which one of the answers had to be expressed in gigajoules. Only about a third of the class knew the conversion from joules. And this was the honors class!


I'm with you. People only know the imperial measurements they do because they have to use them in daily life. Do you know what a bushel is? I bet a farm boy does. Don't dumb things down, let it be an opportunity for education
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June 23, 2014, 01:26:16 PM
 #436

And don't tell me about people who don't get the decimal system - everyone knows kilobytes, megabytes and gigabytes - milli and micro are just in the opposite direction.

No, I do feel like telling you about people that don't get SI prefixes -- college freshman in general chemistry, in fact. I recall giving out a quiz last semester in which one of the answers had to be expressed in gigajoules. Only about a third of the class knew the conversion from joules. And this was the honors class!


Great, but I think there's a reason why energy flux (energy per square meter per second) isn't denoted as kg per cubic second.
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June 23, 2014, 01:45:56 PM
 #437

everyone knows kilobytes, megabytes and gigabytes

not outside magic the gathering conventions
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June 23, 2014, 02:04:37 PM
 #438

Hasn't coinbase allowed you to display your balance in bits?

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June 23, 2014, 02:23:17 PM
 #439

Why bits? Because people are conditioned since birth to think of prices as whole numbers. There's a reason retailers price their goods and services at $19.99, $24.95, $99, etc.

No one who's arguing against bits is against whole numbers, but just for using the already existing, logical connotations: mBTC and uBTC. And don't tell me about people who don't get the decimal system - everyone knows kilobytes, megabytes and gigabytes - milli and micro are just in the opposite direction.

The order of magnitude is good. But as we move towards computers becoming more and more relvant for the general public, we shouldn't put multiple meanings on such fundamental words.
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June 23, 2014, 03:37:08 PM
 #440

we shouldn't put multiple meanings on such fundamental words.
Let's think about this a bit.  Not putting multiple meaning on fundamental words is a bit drastic don't you think? 

You don't want to have to say "that strict stance really bit me in the ass"? 

Just my two bits.

Our family was terrorized by Homeland Security.  Read all about it here:  http://www.jmwagner.com/ and http://www.burtw.com/  Any donations to help us recover from the $300,000 in legal fees and forced donations to the Federal Asset Forfeiture slush fund are greatly appreciated!
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