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Author Topic: [18 GH][0% Fee] A1BITCOINPOOL.COM 20 BTC BONUS PROPORTIONAL POOL  (Read 8034 times)
Inaba
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January 22, 2012, 07:30:50 PM
 #21

There's a common misconception about the rationalization of hopping as "helping to complete a block."  The number of miners attacking a block does not change your chances of solving a block.  It's still 1 in 1.25 million or so at the current difficulty.  Whether you have 10 people or 100 people mining, your chances are still the same.  Each share has a 1 in 1.25 million chance of solving the block.

The *only* thing hoppers do, other than enriching themselves, is reduce the income of people mining past ~40%.  There is absolutely no added benefit to hoppers on a pool.  When they are there in the start of the round, if you find a block, they are like any other miner.  When they leave after ~40%, they take them them an additional profit not realized by the miners who stay.  They add no positive benefit to the pool.


If you're searching these lines for a point, you've probably missed it.  There was never anything there in the first place.
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P4man
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January 22, 2012, 07:38:07 PM
 #22

Bounty rewards encourage block completion, and I think it is just a promo. Also, hopping doesn't produce rewards greater than 20%...on average, or just maybe cause I suck...

If you have an infinite number of pools to hop, you can theoretically double your rewards. IIRC hopping just one pool delivers up to ~20% better returns. That means -20% for people not hopping (assuming equal hash rate).

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Pool hash rate is 18 GH, if it were all hoppers, it would be donuts, baby...  

Already most of the proofs are delivered by miners no longer mining there. ringking, 2pair, rastapool. Hoppers. Cant blame them.


A1BITCOINPOOL
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January 22, 2012, 07:44:17 PM
 #23

Inaba, I know that your pool runs DGM, and I'm really not to familiar withat pay system,  but I have mined before at other pools that have this payment system in place and noticed that at the beginning of a round the hash rate soars and after a while slows down.  I have mined at some of these pools for a while and wasn't getting the expected return.   Could have that just been bad luck or is dgm not completely hop proof.  
Inaba
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January 22, 2012, 07:49:43 PM
 #24

DGM is completely hop proof.  There are only two pool that have DGM.   EMC and OzCoin.  The only other one that was around closed up shop (and OzCoin is now running their software) so either you mined on EMC or on OzCoin/yourbtc.  If you mined elsewhere, you did not mine on a DGM pool.  While I can't speak for OzCoin, I can speak for EMC and the hashrate does not change at the start of a round much to speak of on EMC.  Even if it did, there is no benefit (or drawback) to hopping a DGM pool - you simply get paid a fair reward for what you put in.


If you're searching these lines for a point, you've probably missed it.  There was never anything there in the first place.
P4man
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January 24, 2012, 10:43:56 AM
 #25

Pool is down.

A1BITCOINPOOL
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January 24, 2012, 01:17:51 PM
 #26

Sorry everyone trying to figure out what knocked the pool offline.  Working on trying to get back up.  Thanks for your patience.
A1BITCOINPOOL
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January 24, 2012, 02:33:28 PM
 #27

The backend is up and working and logging shares.  You can still mine and everything is being recorded.  I am having an issue with getting website backup.  Working on that right now.  Thanks for your patience.

A1BITCOINPOOL
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January 24, 2012, 03:09:11 PM
 #28

Everything is up and running again.  Sorry for the delay.  All your mined shares were recorded so no one missed out on anything.  Thanks for your patience.

Due to the outage I added 2 more bitcoin to the first block bonus for a total of 15 BTC.



EDIT :  Just took pool down again,  switching it to a faster server.  Will be back up shortly.  1/24/11 3:02 PM CENTRAL.
A1BITCOINPOOL
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January 24, 2012, 11:03:22 PM
 #29

Ok everyone we are back online now I was having all kinds of issues with the server this morning and have switched to a faster dedicated rack mount server with dual quad core xeon cpus, 16 gb of ram and a 10tb uplink.  So going forward we should be up and running with no issues.  All shares are recorded and current.  Thanks for your patience.  The 15 BTC bonus still stands.  
P4man
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January 27, 2012, 12:05:18 PM
 #30

I wonder, are you beginning to see the folly of proportional? You are having a long first block, that can happen in any payout system obviously. But who in their right minds would start mining here now? The shares you produce will be diluted by 3M existing shares on this block. Ignoring the bounty (which you can not sustain), every sane person would be waiting for the block to finish, and then join in for the next round, until it becomes longish. Its gonna be like that every time.

organofcorti
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January 27, 2012, 12:50:58 PM
 #31

If you have an infinite number of pools to hop, you can theoretically double your rewards. IIRC hopping just one pool delivers up to ~20% better returns.

Enough pools to hop so you never need to use a fair pool: expected efficiency of ~178% (or 179%? can't remember).

Hop 1 pool and mine at a fair pool when not hopping: expected efficiency of 128% (28% better returns)

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That means -20% for people not hopping (assuming equal hash rate).

That 20% (or 28%) is a mix of hopping and non hopping efficiency. The actual loss due to hoppers is tricky to calculate but I posted the results of some simulations here and the loss to full time miners at a particular pool due to hoppers is determine by the number of hoppers increasing the pool hashrate. Increase an 18Ghps pool's hashrate by 36Ghps for the first 0.43*D of a round and fulltime miners will have a reduction in expected earnings of 20%. Increase the hopper effect more - say 180Ghps like in the old days - and you're looking at about a 40% reduction in earnings for fulltime miners.

It's way worse than you'd think.

Bitcoin network and pool analysis 12QxPHEuxDrs7mCyGSx1iVSozTwtquDB3r
follow @oocBlog for new post notifications
A1BITCOINPOOL
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January 27, 2012, 01:37:59 PM
 #32

What payment system do you prefer.
Inaba
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January 27, 2012, 02:04:26 PM
 #33

LNPPS, PPS or DGM.  Although, given your situation, I would very seriously advise against PPS, as it is the most brutal to the op.




If you're searching these lines for a point, you've probably missed it.  There was never anything there in the first place.
A1BITCOINPOOL
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January 27, 2012, 02:46:14 PM
 #34

Your probably right on the pps especially with a first block like this one.  What are your thoughts on PPLNS. 
Inaba
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January 27, 2012, 03:04:10 PM
 #35

I'm obviously of the DGM persuasion and I know very little beyond the basics of PPLNS.  I know Meni has done the math behind it and supports it as a valid, non-hoppable variety of payout schemes.  As such, I trust his judgement in those matters far beyond my own.

PPLNS is probably a lot easier to implement than DGM I would imagine.

If you're searching these lines for a point, you've probably missed it.  There was never anything there in the first place.
sadpandatech
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January 27, 2012, 03:12:24 PM
 #36

At the risk of sounding lazy, what is DGM and do you have a link I can read up on it?

If you're not excited by the idea of being an early adopter 'now', then you should come back in three or four years and either tell us "Told you it'd never work!" or join what should, by then, be a much more stable and easier-to-use system. - GA
It is being worked on by smart people. -DamienBlack
Inaba
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January 27, 2012, 05:33:37 PM
 #37

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=39497.0

If you're searching these lines for a point, you've probably missed it.  There was never anything there in the first place.
A1BITCOINPOOL
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January 27, 2012, 11:46:17 PM
 #38

Ok miners,  I just raised the block Bonus to 20 BTC.  Be the first to mine a confirmed Block and you shall recieve the 20 BTC Prize. 
P4man
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January 27, 2012, 11:53:19 PM
 #39

Assume I have 1000GH. If I were to point it to your pool, and have an average block lenght, I would earn 20BTC bounty + my share of the block reward which would be (1.3/ 1.3+ 3.1) = 14.7 BTC. Total reward, 34.7 BTC.

Do you think Id go for it, or mine solo?


sadpandatech
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January 27, 2012, 11:58:48 PM
 #40

Assume I have 1000GH. If I were to point it to your pool, and have an average block lenght, I would earn 20BTC bounty + my share of the block reward which would be (1.3/ 1.3+ 3.1) = 14.7 BTC. Total reward, 34.7 BTC.

Do you think Id go for it, or mine solo?



ur math, explain it please.





Mustang, at this point I would pay out everyone for their shares. Reset the pool and offer 10BTC bonus to the block finder who is there from the start of round, or very close to it without leaving. And that of course would not mean having 20Gh, then leaving only 200MH there after they got x shares.

Or pay out, reset and move to pps or DGM. Offer like 5BTC bonuc per block for the first 3 or 4.

If you're not excited by the idea of being an early adopter 'now', then you should come back in three or four years and either tell us "Told you it'd never work!" or join what should, by then, be a much more stable and easier-to-use system. - GA
It is being worked on by smart people. -DamienBlack
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