[OLD][CSC]CasinoCoin ♠ A Digital Currency For The Regulated Online Gaming Sector

[GoldSeal]

One thing I would caution about is that the CSC on the Prypto cards and "regular" CSC may not necessarily be freely fungible.  Prypto cards add functionality to regular CSC, which CSC on their own do not have.  Non-prypto (i.e. "regular") CSC may trade at a discount to B$1 unless and until there is a full and free conversion and arbitrage mechanism.

Sure. It wouldn't work any other way. The general public needs to be held back initially to give the casinos a chance to start using the coin. My understanding is that the casino's exchange will only allow the general public to trade outside CSC coins to casinos via their exchange once the outside price is stable above a $1. That being said, participating casinos are incentivized to purchase coins available in the public marketplace for any price up to $1 minus trade fees and of course prypto itself can buy coins in public markets to bring more liquidity into their operation.

If you look at the increase in coin purchases over the past few months and how the coins are being concentrated into the hands of a few holders while liquidity has been declining, you can get a good sense that this action has already been taking place. If I'm a casino that in the program, I'd be sweeping up coins from individual holders because they represent a risk to the this coming program. Something like 98% of the coins belong to the top 100 accounts. What percentage of those coins belong to those companies or "people in the know" involved in this program?

Fiat casinos want to get into crypto. They really don't want BTC. They's prefer using a gambling branded coin that is more aligned technically with their business, supported by a physical transfer method, integrated marketing platform, and with faster transfer times. CSC seems to be the first to have been chosen to take a shot at becoming that coin. The companies developing this as a mainstream funding option are looking to create a stable payment solution that can operate for decades. They aren't looking to get it to $1 and run. Maybe they could make a few million off of something like that, but that would be less than the income that some of the participating 16 casinos make in 2- 3 weeks. This is really a longer term play for them. For now, they seem content sweeping up coins day after day to reduce the number that individuals hold and it's a bonus that they are getting them for pennies.

I cannot say this enough. I think this is a giant game of musical chairs right now and the people ripping the chairs out from under the little guys have a goal and very, very well funded. When we get to a $1, $2, $3, etc - I really don't anticipate there being many individual holders with any significant balance to be left. A small well-funded group of organized members will always overcome of a large group of underfunded disorganized members. It's just a matter of finding a person's price and getting them to hand over their coins. 99% really don't have the willpower required to really hit the big numbers sadly.

How many people sold BTC at $4, $7, $14, $30, $60? All the way in increments up to $1200? Not many made it t $1200 with large BTC balances. This is the nature of an emerging market.

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[barbeq]

I understand all that, and indeed the end goal should hopefully be to have a fungible coin.  That said, hoarding coins alone will not increase their value. I could buy up the entire market cap of almost all but the biggest altcoins with the cash in my bank account, but that would not create any value.  They key to sustainable value will be an application and value attribution by outsiders (i.e. not altcoin speculators but casinos and their customers). Only that point can the hoarders and speculators release their coins to a real market and realise their gains.

How you get to dreams of >$1 valuations is a little difficult to understand.  The already declared denomination for a Pryptsy CSC is B$1. Once the coins are in circulation with casino customers (via Prypto crads), the casinos will hardly want to suddenly double or triple their value.

[GoldSeal]

I understand all that, and indeed the end goal should hopefully be to have a fungible coin.  That said, hoarding coins alone will not increase their value. I could buy up the entire market cap of almost all but the biggest altcoins with the cash in my bank account, but that would not create any value.  They key to sustainable value will be an application and value attribution by outsiders (i.e. not altcoin speculators but casinos and their customers). Only that point can the hoarders and speculators release their coins to a real market and realise their gains.

How you get to dreams of >$1 valuations is a little difficult to understand.  The already declared denomination for a Pryptsy CSC is B$1. Once the coins are in circulation with casino customers (via Prypto crads), the casinos will hardly want to suddenly double or triple their value.

$1 is the minimum. They will float higher if the public exchanges go higher. It won't always be fixed to $1.

For higher valuations, you have to consider that online gambling for 2015 generated $41.4b in revenue. 15% of that is from the payment processing side. If CSC can occupy 1% of that 15% then it would be responsible for $414.4m in annual revenue. I don't know what marketcap that would equate to, but if it's anywhere close to 1:1 then that would be a $12.50 coin. Obviously, we have to get there, but the potential exists. Especially, if we can get adoption going and pick up another 50 casinos in 2016. There are only 2000 licensed casinos in the world and we'll start picking them up at an accelerating rate once casinos start using it and show some success. Our potential casino partner base is pretty good and should provide for growth for several years to come.

From the back of the envelope math, I'd say we have a good shot at values above $1 if the momentum continues and some serious adoption follows. Also, there will be additional news coming throughout the year as some of the other deals that are in the works start to become public. It kills me to hold back, but I'm really not at liberty to divulge everything I know since I signed an NDA. However, I can say that what we'll see in the next month or so is just the tip of the iceberg IMHO.

[barbeq]

Sorry, but you haven't really addressed my point how the face value of the Prypto coin can change after the first Pryoto cards are issued at B$1. If punters buy Pryoto cards for a face value of $1, then the proceeds from those sales go the casinos (less transaction fees), so Casinos will honour them for a $1 value and no more than that (casinos would be giving away free money if they did). So once the the first Prypto cards are issued, their face value is set and cannot be changed afterwards, as doing so would instantly increase already issued Prypto cards in value without receiving payment for the increase. It would be like the government declaring that the value of each US$ bill is now twice its face value.

The best case scenario for non-Prypto CSC is therefore that its price will approach the B$1 price set for the Prypto CSC.

The $414m you mention would be the annual online gambling revenue processed through Prypto. It does not equate to the required market cap, as the same coins (means of payment) would circulate multiple times through the system.  An approximate comparable measure would be the M1/M2 to GDP ratio (amount of money supply vs total economic activity) and this tends to be roughly between 30-60% (depending on each economy). As I would expect the velocity of money in a currency dedicated to gambling to be high (punters are unlikely to hold on to their Prypto CSC for long), a 10-20% ratio is probably more realistic (i.e. each coin circulating 5-10 times per year on average), so a market cap required for a $414 annual payment volume would be between $40-$80m. Just bang on target for a $1 coin valuation.  If ever a higher market cap was required, the customers (i.e. casinos) would likely request an increase in the coin supply, as a revaluation would not be feasible for the reasons I have stated above.

I am not meaning to talk CSC down, but I am in favour of a realistic analysis and realistic expectation. The Prypto coin is launched at B$1. That sets the ceiling until someone can explain to me in non-vague terms how the fiat value of already issued and paid for Prypto cards could increase beyond their face value. The exit strategy for current holders would be to sell out at that point to demand for CSC from casinos for use as Prypto CSC.

[GoldSeal]

hey I just checked. if you have BTC you can buy doge on bittrex for 32, transfer it to cryptsy, sell for 42, and buy CSC with an extra 30% BTC. We don't have any trouble right now withdrawing CSC so it looks like a good arb play if you want CSC. woohoo

[GoldSeal]

Sorry, but you haven't really addressed my point how the face value of the Prypto coin can change after the first Pryoto cards are issued at B$1. If punters buy Pryoto cards for a face value of $1, then the proceeds from those sales go the casinos (less transaction fees), so Casinos will honour them for a $1 value and no more than that (casinos would be giving away free money if they did). So once the the first Prypto cards are issued, their face value is set and cannot be changed afterwards, as doing so would instantly increase already issued Prypto cards in value without receiving payment for the increase. It would be like the government declaring that the value of each US$ bill is now twice its face value.

The best case scenario for non-Prypto CSC is therefore that its price will approach the B$1 price set for the Prypto CSC.

The $414m you mention would be the annual online gambling revenue processed through Prypto. It does not equate to the required market cap, as the same coins (means of payment) would circulate multiple times through the system.  An approximate comparable measure would be the M1/M2 to GDP ratio (amount of money supply vs total economic activity) and this tends to be roughly between 30-60% (depending on each economy). As I would expect the velocity of money in a currency dedicated to gambling to be high (punters are unlikely to hold on to their Prypto CSC for long), a 10-20% ratio is probably more realistic (i.e. each coin circulating 5-10 times per year on average), so a market cap required for a $414 annual payment volume would be between $40-$80m. Just bang on target for a $1 coin valuation.  If ever a higher market cap was required, the customers (i.e. casinos) would likely request an increase in the coin supply, as a revaluation would not be feasible for the reasons I have stated above.

I am not meaning to talk CSC down, but I am in favour of a realistic analysis and realistic expectation. The Prypto coin is launched at B$1. That sets the ceiling until someone can explain to me in non-vague terms how the fiat value of already issued and paid for Prypto cards could increase beyond their face value. The exit strategy for current holders would be to sell out at that point to demand for CSC from casinos for use as Prypto CSC.

The cards say 10 CSC only. They don't say 1B$. There is no indication of fiat value on a card.  Casinos will cash them in for a minimum of 1B$ per CSC loaded. Eventually, if CSC is $5, they will cash them in at 5B$ per CSC, etc. Casinos will use the rate at prypto's exchange and prypto will float with the market when outside exchanges trade at >$1.

For the other part, we can't really make an accurate guess.

[paulkt]

Sorry, but you haven't really addressed my point how the face value of the Prypto coin can change after the first Pryoto cards are issued at B$1. If punters buy Pryoto cards for a face value of $1, then the proceeds from those sales go the casinos (less transaction fees), so Casinos will honour them for a $1 value and no more than that (casinos would be giving away free money if they did). So once the the first Prypto cards are issued, their face value is set and cannot be changed afterwards, as doing so would instantly increase already issued Prypto cards in value without receiving payment for the increase. It would be like the government declaring that the value of each US$ bill is now twice its face value.

The best case scenario for non-Prypto CSC is therefore that its price will approach the B$1 price set for the Prypto CSC.

The $414m you mention would be the annual online gambling revenue processed through Prypto. It does not equate to the required market cap, as the same coins (means of payment) would circulate multiple times through the system.  An approximate comparable measure would be the M1/M2 to GDP ratio (amount of money supply vs total economic activity) and this tends to be roughly between 30-60% (depending on each economy). As I would expect the velocity of money in a currency dedicated to gambling to be high (punters are unlikely to hold on to their Prypto CSC for long), a 10-20% ratio is probably more realistic (i.e. each coin circulating 5-10 times per year on average), so a market cap required for a $414 annual payment volume would be between $40-$80m. Just bang on target for a $1 coin valuation.  If ever a higher market cap was required, the customers (i.e. casinos) would likely request an increase in the coin supply, as a revaluation would not be feasible for the reasons I have stated above.

I am not meaning to talk CSC down, but I am in favour of a realistic analysis and realistic expectation. The Prypto coin is launched at B$1. That sets the ceiling until someone can explain to me in non-vague terms how the fiat value of already issued and paid for Prypto cards could increase beyond their face value. The exit strategy for current holders would be to sell out at that point to demand for CSC from casinos for use as Prypto CSC.

The cards say 10 CSC only. They don't say 1B$. There is no indication of fiat value on a card.  Casinos will cash them in for a minimum of 1B$ per CSC loaded. Eventually, if CSC is $5, they will cash them in at 5B$ per CSC, etc. Casinos will use the rate at prypto's exchange and prypto will float with the market when outside exchanges trade at >$1.

For the other part, we can't really make an accurate guess.

From what I understood from Gamingcoins. They are using CSC as a affiliate tool, and there is no risk to the casinos with price fluctuations in CSC price. So that means CSC is fixed at $1, the casinos can only cash their CSC at $1 at Pryto's private exchange.

When CSC price is higher than $1, I think Pryto has to fix CSC at a higher price maybe $10 and when CSC is higher than $10 they will have to fix CSC at $100 and so on. This is to ensure that there is zero risk to the casinos with price fluctuations. They are only using CSC coin as a token to be converted to playing chips at the casinos.

Casinos pay big money to affiliated referrers something like $50 to $300.  http://www.casinoaffiliateprograms.com/blog/how-much-can-you-make-off-casino-affiliate-programs/. This is good for both Pryto/Gamingcoins and CSC. We will be getting lots of free advertisements for CSC. The user base for CSC will increase significantly in the next few years. This can only be good for CSC price.

[paulkt]

There are other applications for Pryto's CSC cards when 1CSC=$1. Most people know that gambling is not the only legal/legitimate revenue that Casinos make.

For example, in countries where there are really strict capital controls, people could use these Pryto CSC coins cards as a way to have some fun with gambling and after they are done with the gambling they can withdraw the funds to a different country. For example someone could buy 10,000 CSC, which can then be converted to $10,000.00 at the casinos, after they have some fun and meet the requirements for withdrawals they can withdraw the funds to their friends and families who are in countries like Australia where there are zero tax for gambling profits.

If something like this could work, I think Gamingcoins 5 mil CSC wont last very long at all because $5 mil is only chump change in the money transfer and gambling world.

[GoldSeal]

There are other applications for Pryto's CSC cards when 1CSC=$1. Most people know that gambling is not the only legal/legitimate revenue that Casinos make.

For example, in countries where there are really strict capital controls, people could use these Pryto CSC coins cards as a way to have some fun with gambling and after they are done with the gambling they can withdraw the funds to a different country. For example someone could buy 10,000 CSC, which can then be converted to $10,000.00 at the casinos, after they have some fun and meet the requirements for withdrawals they can withdraw the funds to their friends and families who are in countries like Australia where there are zero tax for gambling profits.

If something like this could work, I think Gamingcoins 5 mil CSC wont last very long at all because $5 mil is only chump change in the money transfer and gambling world.

Down the road it also means that we have the infrastructure and partners setup to make a push for mobile gambling which is the  next emerging market for online gambling too.

[ajochems]

First and most important i wish a very Happy New Year to all Casinocoin enthusiasts. I hope all of you and your loved ones have a great 2016! I am pretty sure casinocoin will contribute to that by being the rising star of the 2016 crypto world. I have had a very necessary time of for the past few weeks but things will pickup again from now.

Work is going steadily on the walletserver/mobile clients. Let me explain a bit what i am doing, ... i am extending the current C++ casinocoin core sourcecode to make it possible to use the current blockchain code and be able to plugin to that any wallet file that is needed. I want to have the user to decide if they want to leave the wallet file on the server, the client, or both. That way we move the blockchain away from the actual wallet and a user can potentially use the same wallet on a desktop client, browser or mobile client. To make this work i have to ensure that the wallet code is capable of high load with a high concurrent wallet count and stays threadsave and stable. The communication with the clients will be through message queues (RabbitMQ) and all security and rest services will be build on the WSO2 stack. Using the message queues will also help masquerade the actual walletserver location from the clients. Clients will include user accounts, OAuth and 2FA, probably with an added extra personal security token on top of that. As you can see, a lot of work and i am still targeting Q1 but this is by no means a hard deadline ....

Currently i am the only developer for Casinocoin, ... mabe Felix will help out a bit more on some features for the wallet but still it would be nice if there was some more help from the community on the development side of things, ... my workqueue is kind of big at the moment. If anybody has C++/Qt or mobile development experience with Ionic/Cordova/AngularJS and is willing to spent some time on development please contact me.

[casinocoin]

First and most important i wish a very Happy New Year to all Casinocoin enthusiasts. I hope all of you and your loved ones have a great 2016! I am pretty sure casinocoin will contribute to that by being the rising star of the 2016 crypto world. I have had a very necessary time of for the past few weeks but things will pickup again from now.

Work is going steadily on the walletserver/mobile clients. Let me explain a bit what i am doing, ... i am extending the current C++ casinocoin core sourcecode to make it possible to use the current blockchain code and be able to plugin to that any wallet file that is needed. I want to have the user to decide if they want to leave the wallet file on the server, the client, or both. That way we move the blockchain away from the actual wallet and a user can potentially use the same wallet on a desktop client, browser or mobile client. To make this work i have to ensure that the wallet code is capable of high load with a high concurrent wallet count and stays threadsave and stable. The communication with the clients will be through message queues (RabbitMQ) and all security and rest services will be build on the WSO2 stack. Using the message queues will also help masquerade the actual walletserver location from the clients. Clients will include user accounts, OAuth and 2FA, probably with an added extra personal security token on top of that. As you can see, a lot of work and i am still targeting Q1 but this is by no means a hard deadline ....

Currently i am the only developer for Casinocoin, ... mabe Felix will help out a bit more on some features for the wallet but still it would be nice if there was some more help from the community on the development side of things, ... my workqueue is kind of big at the moment. If anybody has C++/Qt or mobile development experience with Ionic/Cordova/AngularJS and is willing to spent some time on development please contact me.

Hi Andre thanks for all your hard work and best wishes for 2016 to you as well!

I don't feel comfortable changing any of the codebase using c++/qt so ill leave that up to you, BUT what I can do is work on the AngularJS side of things as I have built several applications with the framework(< 2.0).
I haven't used Cordova, but have dabbled a bit into the Ionic framework. Give me a shout and we can talk further can always post on the slack too!

[GoldSeal]

Casinocoin,
Can you check the links to the windows client download on the website? Somebody said it wasn't workign last night. It should point to this file:
https://github.com/casinocoin/casinocoin/releases/download/2.0.1.0/casinocoin-2.0.1.0-setup.exe

[GoldSeal]

First and most important i wish a very Happy New Year to all Casinocoin enthusiasts. I hope all of you and your loved ones have a great 2016! I am pretty sure casinocoin will contribute to that by being the rising star of the 2016 crypto world. I have had a very necessary time of for the past few weeks but things will pickup again from now.

Work is going steadily on the walletserver/mobile clients. Let me explain a bit what i am doing, ... i am extending the current C++ casinocoin core sourcecode to make it possible to use the current blockchain code and be able to plugin to that any wallet file that is needed. I want to have the user to decide if they want to leave the wallet file on the server, the client, or both. That way we move the blockchain away from the actual wallet and a user can potentially use the same wallet on a desktop client, browser or mobile client. To make this work i have to ensure that the wallet code is capable of high load with a high concurrent wallet count and stays threadsave and stable. The communication with the clients will be through message queues (RabbitMQ) and all security and rest services will be build on the WSO2 stack. Using the message queues will also help masquerade the actual walletserver location from the clients. Clients will include user accounts, OAuth and 2FA, probably with an added extra personal security token on top of that. As you can see, a lot of work and i am still targeting Q1 but this is by no means a hard deadline ....

Currently i am the only developer for Casinocoin, ... mabe Felix will help out a bit more on some features for the wallet but still it would be nice if there was some more help from the community on the development side of things, ... my workqueue is kind of big at the moment. If anybody has C++/Qt or mobile development experience with Ionic/Cordova/AngularJS and is willing to spent some time on development please contact me.

I cna help you with the rabbitmq piec

First and most important i wish a very Happy New Year to all Casinocoin enthusiasts. I hope all of you and your loved ones have a great 2016! I am pretty sure casinocoin will contribute to that by being the rising star of the 2016 crypto world. I have had a very necessary time of for the past few weeks but things will pickup again from now.

Work is going steadily on the walletserver/mobile clients. Let me explain a bit what i am doing, ... i am extending the current C++ casinocoin core sourcecode to make it possible to use the current blockchain code and be able to plugin to that any wallet file that is needed. I want to have the user to decide if they want to leave the wallet file on the server, the client, or both. That way we move the blockchain away from the actual wallet and a user can potentially use the same wallet on a desktop client, browser or mobile client. To make this work i have to ensure that the wallet code is capable of high load with a high concurrent wallet count and stays threadsave and stable. The communication with the clients will be through message queues (RabbitMQ) and all security and rest services will be build on the WSO2 stack. Using the message queues will also help masquerade the actual walletserver location from the clients. Clients will include user accounts, OAuth and 2FA, probably with an added extra personal security token on top of that. As you can see, a lot of work and i am still targeting Q1 but this is by no means a hard deadline ....

Currently i am the only developer for Casinocoin, ... mabe Felix will help out a bit more on some features for the wallet but still it would be nice if there was some more help from the community on the development side of things, ... my workqueue is kind of big at the moment. If anybody has C++/Qt or mobile development experience with Ionic/Cordova/AngularJS and is willing to spent some time on development please contact me.

Be careful with rabbit. You have to watch the number of connections and periodically reset the broker. That damn thing leaks open sockets. If you need some help with that I'm here. Also take a look at using ssl and mirrored queues.

[CartmanSPC]

Maybe two different wallet codebases should be maintained. One for the new version with the new features and other for the standard one based on bitcoin. I fear that the new feature rich client will require an installation program to operate and not be just a simple executable like the old version (and bitcoin). It is the reason I have yet to install the newer version of the CSC wallet and have no plans to do so if it requires an application installation.

[felix.rojauro]

Maybe two different wallet codebases should be maintained. One for the new version with the new features and other for the standard one based on bitcoin. I fear that the new feature rich client will require an installation program to operate and not be just a simple executable like the old version (and bitcoin). It is the reason I have yet to install the newer version of the CSC wallet and have no plans to do so if it requires an application installation.

i might try to get rid of this installer. Maybe there is some hack provided by Qt. (as the installer requirement is caused by my code i feel kinda responsible for this )

cheers

[issie81]

he guys,

Just installed the wallet but the top side of wallet is complete white.. do i need to install something.. i can click on some options but i don't know what ia am clicking..

[ajochems]

he guys,

Just installed the wallet but the top side of wallet is complete white.. do i need to install something.. i can click on some options but i don't know what ia am clicking..

This happens on some old OS/computers and has to do with the OpenGL version. Try updating your graphics card drivers to the latest version.

[ajochems]

Maybe two different wallet codebases should be maintained. One for the new version with the new features and other for the standard one based on bitcoin. I fear that the new feature rich client will require an installation program to operate and not be just a simple executable like the old version (and bitcoin). It is the reason I have yet to install the newer version of the CSC wallet and have no plans to do so if it requires an application installation.

Why would you not want to use an installer? I think 99% of the users prefer it as its the way they normally install software. Anyway, we could also just create a zip file that contains the extra Qt files and supply that as secondary install method, then you just unzip and run from the directory where you put it. A second codebase is not going to happen, at least i will not maintain that ...... for now the old wallet still works and i suspect that with the new additions i am currently developing it will all still be backwards compatible with the v1.3 wallet as well as we do not touch the blockchain itself, you will just be missing out on all the new v2.0 release features!

[Abiky]

Maybe two different wallet codebases should be maintained. One for the new version with the new features and other for the standard one based on bitcoin. I fear that the new feature rich client will require an installation program to operate and not be just a simple executable like the old version (and bitcoin). It is the reason I have yet to install the newer version of the CSC wallet and have no plans to do so if it requires an application installation.

Why would you not want to use an installer? I think 99% of the users prefer it as its the way they normally install software. Anyway, we could also just create a zip file that contains the extra Qt files and supply that as secondary install method, then you just unzip and run from the directory where you put it. A second codebase is not going to happen, at least i will not maintain that ...... for now the old wallet still works and i suspect that with the new additions i am currently developing it will all still be backwards compatible with the v1.3 wallet as well as we do not touch the blockchain itself, you will just be missing out on all the new v2.0 release features!

Also by having an installer for CasinoCoin, is doesn't make it portable right? Because in the old version, it was a standalone executable wallet (no installer) and I could put the same on my USB flash drive, and take it anywhere and it would open on any Windows PC. If the new one could also be like this, I think it would be pretty cool. 

[CartmanSPC]

Maybe two different wallet codebases should be maintained. One for the new version with the new features and other for the standard one based on bitcoin. I fear that the new feature rich client will require an installation program to operate and not be just a simple executable like the old version (and bitcoin). It is the reason I have yet to install the newer version of the CSC wallet and have no plans to do so if it requires an application installation.

Why would you not want to use an installer? I think 99% of the users prefer it as its the way they normally install software. Anyway, we could also just create a zip file that contains the extra Qt files and supply that as secondary install method, then you just unzip and run from the directory where you put it. A second codebase is not going to happen, at least i will not maintain that ...... for now the old wallet still works and i suspect that with the new additions i am currently developing it will all still be backwards compatible with the v1.3 wallet as well as we do not touch the blockchain itself, you will just be missing out on all the new v2.0 release features!

Also by having an installer for CasinoCoin, is doesn't make it portable right? Because in the old version, it was a standalone executable wallet (no installer) and I could put the same on my USB flash drive, and take it anywhere and it would open on any Windows PC. If the new one could also be like this, I think it would be pretty cool.  

That...and not everyone has the ability to install software on their computers.

I put all my QT wallets on OneDrive...that way I have access to all of them when I switch to a new computer....there are soooo many that having to install each one would not be something I would do. I switch computers a lot since I usually get the latest and greatest.

Also, doing an install makes it available to all users on the system. I have different user accounts for personal and business and do not want QT wallets showing up in my business account.

I don't put my wallet.dat files on OneDrive even though I have two factor...just in case.