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Author Topic: Smuggling physical cash in your knickers - so last century  (Read 2493 times)
Otoh
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February 01, 2012, 10:11:54 AM
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/9052082/Italians-smuggle-cash-into-San-Marino-to-beat-tax-crackdown.html

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John (John K.)
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February 01, 2012, 04:01:55 PM
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They obviously never heard of bitcoin  Grin. Encrypted Wallet in dropbox or pendrive would suffice lol. Only problem is cashing in/out from bitcoin

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February 01, 2012, 06:29:07 PM
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Only problem is cashing in/out from bitcoin

Or taking out half of what you've put in. With such price fluctuation, Bitcoin is far from being ready as a store of value.

Government is not the solution to our problem. Government is the problem. -- Ronald Reagan
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February 01, 2012, 06:39:57 PM
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agreed, it's a casino atm with potential price swings of up to 30% on extreme days for better or worse, which is why I made the 1B$ issued BTC market cap thread, then the Italians can just shove a pendrive down their knicks or cloud source it

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February 02, 2012, 06:16:50 AM
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Only problem is cashing in/out from bitcoin

Or taking out half of what you've put in. With such price fluctuation, Bitcoin is far from being ready as a store of value.


    maybe up, maybe down         maybe stick it in my pants    
                                     / \    
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hard choice (not really)

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February 02, 2012, 06:22:48 AM
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agreed, it's a casino atm with potential price swings of up to 30% on extreme days for better or worse, which is why I made the 1B$ issued BTC market cap thread, then the Italians can just shove a pendrive down their knicks or cloud source it

Or brainwallet it

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Brainwallet

Companies claiming they got hacked and lost your coins sounds like fraud so perfect it could be called fashionable.  I never believe them.  If I ever experience the misfortune of a real intrusion, I declare I have been honest about the way I have managed the keys in Casascius Coins.  I maintain no ability to recover or reproduce the keys, not even under limitless duress or total intrusion.  Remember that trusting strangers with your coins without any recourse is, as a matter of principle, not a best practice.  Don't keep coins online. Use paper wallets instead.
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February 02, 2012, 08:27:10 AM
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Only problem is cashing in/out from bitcoin

Or taking out half of what you've put in. With such price fluctuation, Bitcoin is far from being ready as a store of value.
If they want to transfer the money across borders in a relatively short time, bitcoin could suffice IMHO.

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February 02, 2012, 10:22:56 AM
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say that Mario wished to move €10,000 then he buys 1,270 BTC for $6 each, now he probably won't mind too much if these increase in value over the short time it takes to move them & convert them in to his currency or PM of choice, but he would be upset if they fell in value so to hedge against this he buys & deposits 127  BTC on Bitcoinica & shorts the price @ 10:1, now he is covered for any price fall on his 1,270 BTC as he has effectively bought them insurance for €100, a big rise of say 6% which wipes out his short still gives him €600 gain on his main holding so overall €500 up - it's not perfect as extreme volatility would damage him if it went up say 6% then down say 15% but refinements could be built in with limit orders & stops I expect, anyway just a quick though as to how it could be done & how it may develop

also assuming less than a 6% rise then he's left with his 127 BTC short @ 10:1, which he can keep as a gamble of a spike or move down, or adjust the base price with some more buys, liquidate prob for much less than the €100 it cost, etc...

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February 03, 2012, 12:35:23 AM
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If they want to transfer the money across borders in a relatively short time, bitcoin could suffice IMHO.

And they could just cash out bitcoins in San Marino's bank?


say that Mario wished to move €10,000 then he buys 1,270 BTC for $6 each, now he probably won't mind too much if these increase in value over the short time it takes to move them & convert them in to his currency or PM of choice, but he would be upset if they fell in value so to hedge against this he buys & deposits 127  BTC on Bitcoinica & shorts the price @ 10:1, now he is covered for any price fall on his 1,270 BTC as he has effectively bought them insurance for €100, a big rise of say 6% which wipes out his short still gives him €600 gain on his main holding so overall €500 up - it's not perfect as extreme volatility would damage him if it went up say 6% then down say 15% but refinements could be built in with limit orders & stops I expect, anyway just a quick though as to how it could be done & how it may develop

also assuming less than a 6% rise then he's left with his 127 BTC short @ 10:1, which he can keep as a gamble of a spike or move down, or adjust the base price with some more buys, liquidate prob for much less than the €100 it cost, etc...

This is interesting idea, but remember that regular Joe has trouble figuring out what buttons do on his microwave, far less elaborate fluctuation protected digital cryptocurrency transfer system.

Let's face it, Bitcoin is not ready yet for mass adoption.

Government is not the solution to our problem. Government is the problem. -- Ronald Reagan
Otoh
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February 03, 2012, 09:31:34 AM
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If they want to transfer the money across borders in a relatively short time, bitcoin could suffice IMHO.

And they could just cash out bitcoins in San Marino's bank?


say that Mario wished to move €10,000 then he buys 1,270 BTC for $6 each, now he probably won't mind too much if these increase in value over the short time it takes to move them & convert them in to his currency or PM of choice, but he would be upset if they fell in value so to hedge against this he buys & deposits 127  BTC on Bitcoinica & shorts the price @ 10:1, now he is covered for any price fall on his 1,270 BTC as he has effectively bought them insurance for €100, a big rise of say 6% which wipes out his short still gives him €600 gain on his main holding so overall €500 up - it's not perfect as extreme volatility would damage him if it went up say 6% then down say 15% but refinements could be built in with limit orders & stops I expect, anyway just a quick though as to how it could be done & how it may develop

also assuming less than a 6% rise then he's left with his 127 BTC short @ 10:1, which he can keep as a gamble of a spike or move down, or adjust the base price with some more buys, liquidate prob for much less than the €100 it cost, etc...

This is interesting idea, but remember that regular Joe has trouble figuring out what buttons do on his microwave, far less elaborate fluctuation protected digital cryptocurrency transfer system.

Let's face it, Bitcoin is not ready yet for mass adoption.

cashing out in San Marino is easy & they don't even need to physically take BTC there, before they would take € cash & pay it in to a SM bank account, now they can just sell it on Gox & send the proceeds there, the problem is moving € cash in Italy in to BTC, as the authorities are cracking down on black money they can't just put it in their Italian bank accounts & move it to Gox but it shouldn't be too hard to think up ways to buy BTC there with cash & facilitators will no doubt appear on the scene, like Pirate for example in the loans thread, this also deals with the second objection of it being too complicated - as for a fee it's all taken care of for you, but any young person should be able to work out how to DIY, if more exchange controls & restrictions on cash purchases become the norm in Europe & around the world then this will become more & more relevant, we may see The First Pirate Savings & Trust doing an IPO for international expansion


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BTC = $c²     BTC = 1otohotohMoQoxHuxLBveQiZcV3Pji3Tc      DASH, Digital Cash = www.dash.org   
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February 29, 2012, 12:00:55 PM
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Quote
but he would be upset if they fell in value so to hedge against this he buys & deposits 127  BTC on Bitcoinica

Better off buying options. At least those actually deliver, not to mention he doesn't need an account.

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March 01, 2012, 04:39:15 AM
 #12

They obviously never heard of bitcoin  Grin. Encrypted Wallet in dropbox or pendrive would suffice lol. Only problem is cashing in/out from bitcoin

To obvious. I would suggest a floppy diskette for the encrypted wallet. Who in their right mind would look for Bitcoins on a 5.25in floppy diskette for example?

Concerned that blockchain bloat will lead to centralization? Storing less than 4 GB of data once required the budget of a superpower and a warehouse full of punched cards. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/87/IBM_card_storage.NARA.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punched_card
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Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.


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March 01, 2012, 06:13:14 AM
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agreed, it's a casino atm with potential price swings of up to 30% on extreme days for better or worse, which is why I made the 1B$ issued BTC market cap thread, then the Italians can just shove a pendrive down their knicks or cloud source it

Or brainwallet it

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Brainwallet
I was thinking that whole sets of tools could be created for people to cipher their coins using not just mnemonics, but muscle memory, rhythm and tone, or other unique attributes of an individual. These could even be used for m-of-n transactions.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
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