Smuggling physical cash in your knickers - so last century

[Otoh]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/9052082/Italians-smuggle-cash-into-San-Marino-to-beat-tax-crackdown.html

[1714804209]

1714804209

[John (John K.)]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/9052082/Italians-smuggle-cash-into-San-Marino-to-beat-tax-crackdown.html

They obviously never heard of bitcoin  . Encrypted Wallet in dropbox or pendrive would suffice lol. Only problem is cashing in/out from bitcoin

[Blind]

Only problem is cashing in/out from bitcoin

Or taking out half of what you've put in. With such price fluctuation, Bitcoin is far from being ready as a store of value.

[Otoh]

agreed, it's a casino atm with potential price swings of up to 30% on extreme days for better or worse, which is why I made the 1B$ issued BTC market cap thread, then the Italians can just shove a pendrive down their knicks or cloud source it

[FreeMoney]

Only problem is cashing in/out from bitcoin

Or taking out half of what you've put in. With such price fluctuation, Bitcoin is far from being ready as a store of value.

    maybe up, maybe down         maybe stick it in my pants    
                                     / \    
                                    / | \

hard choice (not really)

[casascius]

agreed, it's a casino atm with potential price swings of up to 30% on extreme days for better or worse, which is why I made the 1B$ issued BTC market cap thread, then the Italians can just shove a pendrive down their knicks or cloud source it

Or brainwallet it

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Brainwallet

[John (John K.)]

Only problem is cashing in/out from bitcoin

Or taking out half of what you've put in. With such price fluctuation, Bitcoin is far from being ready as a store of value.

If they want to transfer the money across borders in a relatively short time, bitcoin could suffice IMHO.

[Otoh]

say that Mario wished to move €10,000 then he buys 1,270 BTC for $6 each, now he probably won't mind too much if these increase in value over the short time it takes to move them & convert them in to his currency or PM of choice, but he would be upset if they fell in value so to hedge against this he buys & deposits 127  BTC on Bitcoinica & shorts the price @ 10:1, now he is covered for any price fall on his 1,270 BTC as he has effectively bought them insurance for €100, a big rise of say 6% which wipes out his short still gives him €600 gain on his main holding so overall €500 up - it's not perfect as extreme volatility would damage him if it went up say 6% then down say 15% but refinements could be built in with limit orders & stops I expect, anyway just a quick though as to how it could be done & how it may develop

also assuming less than a 6% rise then he's left with his 127 BTC short @ 10:1, which he can keep as a gamble of a spike or move down, or adjust the base price with some more buys, liquidate prob for much less than the €100 it cost, etc...

[Blind]

If they want to transfer the money across borders in a relatively short time, bitcoin could suffice IMHO.

And they could just cash out bitcoins in San Marino's bank?

say that Mario wished to move €10,000 then he buys 1,270 BTC for $6 each, now he probably won't mind too much if these increase in value over the short time it takes to move them & convert them in to his currency or PM of choice, but he would be upset if they fell in value so to hedge against this he buys & deposits 127  BTC on Bitcoinica & shorts the price @ 10:1, now he is covered for any price fall on his 1,270 BTC as he has effectively bought them insurance for €100, a big rise of say 6% which wipes out his short still gives him €600 gain on his main holding so overall €500 up - it's not perfect as extreme volatility would damage him if it went up say 6% then down say 15% but refinements could be built in with limit orders & stops I expect, anyway just a quick though as to how it could be done & how it may develop

also assuming less than a 6% rise then he's left with his 127 BTC short @ 10:1, which he can keep as a gamble of a spike or move down, or adjust the base price with some more buys, liquidate prob for much less than the €100 it cost, etc...

This is interesting idea, but remember that regular Joe has trouble figuring out what buttons do on his microwave, far less elaborate fluctuation protected digital cryptocurrency transfer system.

Let's face it, Bitcoin is not ready yet for mass adoption.

[Otoh]

If they want to transfer the money across borders in a relatively short time, bitcoin could suffice IMHO.

And they could just cash out bitcoins in San Marino's bank?

say that Mario wished to move €10,000 then he buys 1,270 BTC for $6 each, now he probably won't mind too much if these increase in value over the short time it takes to move them & convert them in to his currency or PM of choice, but he would be upset if they fell in value so to hedge against this he buys & deposits 127  BTC on Bitcoinica & shorts the price @ 10:1, now he is covered for any price fall on his 1,270 BTC as he has effectively bought them insurance for €100, a big rise of say 6% which wipes out his short still gives him €600 gain on his main holding so overall €500 up - it's not perfect as extreme volatility would damage him if it went up say 6% then down say 15% but refinements could be built in with limit orders & stops I expect, anyway just a quick though as to how it could be done & how it may develop

also assuming less than a 6% rise then he's left with his 127 BTC short @ 10:1, which he can keep as a gamble of a spike or move down, or adjust the base price with some more buys, liquidate prob for much less than the €100 it cost, etc...

This is interesting idea, but remember that regular Joe has trouble figuring out what buttons do on his microwave, far less elaborate fluctuation protected digital cryptocurrency transfer system.

Let's face it, Bitcoin is not ready yet for mass adoption.

cashing out in San Marino is easy & they don't even need to physically take BTC there, before they would take € cash & pay it in to a SM bank account, now they can just sell it on Gox & send the proceeds there, the problem is moving € cash in Italy in to BTC, as the authorities are cracking down on black money they can't just put it in their Italian bank accounts & move it to Gox but it shouldn't be too hard to think up ways to buy BTC there with cash & facilitators will no doubt appear on the scene, like Pirate for example in the loans thread, this also deals with the second objection of it being too complicated - as for a fee it's all taken care of for you, but any young person should be able to work out how to DIY, if more exchange controls & restrictions on cash purchases become the norm in Europe & around the world then this will become more & more relevant, we may see The First Pirate Savings & Trust doing an IPO for international expansion

[MPOE-PR]

but he would be upset if they fell in value so to hedge against this he buys & deposits 127  BTC on Bitcoinica

Better off buying options. At least those actually deliver, not to mention he doesn't need an account.

[ArticMine]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/9052082/Italians-smuggle-cash-into-San-Marino-to-beat-tax-crackdown.html

They obviously never heard of bitcoin  . Encrypted Wallet in dropbox or pendrive would suffice lol. Only problem is cashing in/out from bitcoin

To obvious. I would suggest a floppy diskette for the encrypted wallet. Who in their right mind would look for Bitcoins on a 5.25in floppy diskette for example?

[cbeast]

agreed, it's a casino atm with potential price swings of up to 30% on extreme days for better or worse, which is why I made the 1B$ issued BTC market cap thread, then the Italians can just shove a pendrive down their knicks or cloud source it

Or brainwallet it

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Brainwallet

I was thinking that whole sets of tools could be created for people to cipher their coins using not just mnemonics, but muscle memory, rhythm and tone, or other unique attributes of an individual. These could even be used for m-of-n transactions.