Monero (XMR) Speculation thread

[othe]

Yet, I believe that it will not stay even this cheap for long. A week perhaps.

On what basis? Hopes and dreams? At this point it's 100% speculative. Without a constant supply of patsies, the price would tank rather quickly. I think many Monero investors are in a state of delusion regarding timeline. The majority of people are rather impatient. When a few months go by without a significant improvement to usability, interest will wane. Not necessarily a bad thing, there are uptrends and downtrends for every asset.

 Personally, I'm watching Monero very closely. I'm certainly interested, but the endless shilling and permanently affixed rose colored glasses that so many of you guys seem to wear do not look good from the outside. I know you guys believe in the project, but fanaticism is not the best way to attract supporters at this stage.

No you aren´t interested, all you do is flaming against it over and over with the same crap and you are damn learning resistant on that.

Since we're involving physical actions now just imagine me giving you a swift kick to your remaining nut.

"Talk to the hand" is an old american phrase from the 90s, Lynne Truss even wrote a book with that title.
"Talk to the hand" was also used in the Terminator 3.
Nothing to do with physical action, you should drink a tea with milk, maybe helps against your agressions.

[Brilliantrocket]

When a few months go by without a significant improvement to usability, interest will wane.

There is this crazy little thing called a brand new written-from-scratch-with-extensive-usability-testing GUI that was revealed last week to rave reviews and while a release date has not been announced more than a few months not a very good guess.

Personally, I'm watching Monero very closely.

Seems unlikely given that you didn't know about the GUI.

I'm less concerned with a GUI and more concerned with bloat. A GUI is a trifling thing compared to that. You want applause for delivering the most basic thing that a cryptocurrency could have? When I said usability, I meant real world practicality. Even if you guys released a perfect GUI tomorrow, I wouldn't shift my investments just for that.

[smooth]

When a few months go by without a significant improvement to usability, interest will wane.

There is this crazy little thing called a brand new written-from-scratch-with-extensive-usability-testing GUI that was revealed last week to rave reviews and while a release date has not been announced more than a few months not a very good guess.

Personally, I'm watching Monero very closely.

Seems unlikely given that you didn't know about the GUI.

I'm less concerned with a GUI and more concerned with bloat. A GUI is a trifling thing compared to that. You want applause for delivering the most basic thing that a cryptocurrency could have? When I said usability, I meant real world practicality. Even if you guys released a perfect GUI tomorrow, I wouldn't shift my investments just for that.

Bloat is irrelevant for years and you know it. The blockchain is currently growing at about 5 MB per day, or 1.5 GB per year. That is nothing. As usage increases, this rate of growth will also increase. If Monero grows twice as fast as Bitcoin then it will be the current size of Bitcoin in terms of volume and 5-10 times the current size in terms of blockchain. That is not now, not next year, but 3 years from now. That is entirely manageable. Moreover, most users will likely be using thin clients and web wallets. If your claim is that full nodes running in datacenters and on VPS (and probably some enthusiasts at home) won't be able to handle a 100-200 GB blockchain in 3 years you have completely lost it.

Also, the GUI is hardly the most basic thing. It is probably the more carefully and professionally designed GUI that has even been developed for any coin. What other coin GUI was developed using formal usabililty testing? Certainly not the 99% that are copy-paste Bitcoin-qt clones, and likely few if any of the other 1% either.

[Brilliantrocket]

No you aren´t interested, all you do is flaming against it over and over with the same crap and you are damn learning resistant on that.

And I'll continue flaming it until I see a fix to the issues that I find important. In my opinion, Monero is like a piece of coal. Practically worthless in its current form. With the proper pressure, coal can be compressed into a diamond.

[Brilliantrocket]

When a few months go by without a significant improvement to usability, interest will wane.

There is this crazy little thing called a brand new written-from-scratch-with-extensive-usability-testing GUI that was revealed last week to rave reviews and while a release date has not been announced more than a few months not a very good guess.

Personally, I'm watching Monero very closely.

Seems unlikely given that you didn't know about the GUI.

I'm less concerned with a GUI and more concerned with bloat. A GUI is a trifling thing compared to that. You want applause for delivering the most basic thing that a cryptocurrency could have? When I said usability, I meant real world practicality. Even if you guys released a perfect GUI tomorrow, I wouldn't shift my investments just for that.

Bloat is irrelevant for years and you know it. The blockchain is currently growing at about 5 MB per day, or 1.5 GB per year. That is nothing. As usage increases, this rate of growth will also increase. If Monero grows twice as fast as Bitcoin then it will be the current size of Bitcoin in terms of volume and 5-10 times the current size in terms of blockchain. That is not now, not next year, but 3 years from now. That is entirely manageable. Moreover, most users will likely be using thin clients and web wallets. If your claim is that full nodes running in datacenters and on VPS (and probably some enthusiasts at home) won't be able to handle a 100-200 GB blockchain in 3 years you have completely lost it.

Also, the GUI is hardly the most basic thing. It is probably the more carefully and professionally designed GUI that has even been developed for any coin. What other coin GUI has was developed using formal usabililty testing? Certainly not the 99% that are copy-paste Bitcoin-qt clones, and likely few if any of the other 1% either.

Like I said, we all have our standards. It's my belief that Darkcoin will prevail over CN , unless there was a fix to the bloat. I'm interested in the ability to scale to a high transaction volume rapidly. As I've explained in other threads, I do not think CN in its current form can prevail over Darkcoin, simply due to the fact that people care for practical solutions, not necessarily elegant ones.  HOWEVER, if CN had no bloat, I do believe that it could compete with Darkcoin. That's all.

Obviously you guys will disagree with my premise, but to each their own. When I said I'm watching Monero closely, I should have said, I'm watching closely to see if the issues I care about are addressed, not to check if the developers are breathing. I expect you guys will get a GUI out, nothing surprising there. Because Anonymint (an astute observer, in my opinion) has stated that CN cannot be pruned I do not expect for the bloat to be fixed. That doesn't mean it can't happen. So I will watch.

[othe]

No you aren´t interested, all you do is flaming against it over and over with the same crap and you are damn learning resistant on that.

And I'll continue flaming it until I see a fix to the issues that I find important. In my opinion, Monero is like a piece of coal. Practically worthless in its current form. With the proper pressure, coal can be compressed into a diamond.

Lets face it, you are just a blinded Darkcoin fanboy.
While you ignore all issues i mentioned on DRK you come here and blub the same stuff over and over again.

The fact is, there is no pruning in Bitcoin, theres no pruning in Darkcoin and there is none in Monero.
So feel free to annoy the other 2 mentioned projects with that and set Monero on ignore as you are certainly not interested in it anyway.

CN based coins can easily scale to a high transaction volume, its far from its limit, so is Bitcoin.
Read the Bitcoin scalability page, the disksize for a fullnode is the LEAST issue, network propagation etc are one of the problem.

As already said 1000x times normal people will use an SPV Wallet like they are doing with Bitcoin, and for a fullnode operator the Blockchainsize doesnt matter as diskspace is cheap, yes you heard correctly, diskspace is already pretty cheap in the year 2014 - and btw. running a masternode is not.


However, it will be kinda impossible for the Masternode stuff to "scale" to even Bitcoin levels.

[Brilliantrocket]

No you aren´t interested, all you do is flaming against it over and over with the same crap and you are damn learning resistant on that.

And I'll continue flaming it until I see a fix to the issues that I find important. In my opinion, Monero is like a piece of coal. Practically worthless in its current form. With the proper pressure, coal can be compressed into a diamond.

Lets face it, you are just a blinded Darkcoin fanboy.
While you ignore all issues i mentioned on DRK you come here and blub the same stuff over and over again.

The fact is, there is no pruning in Bitcoin, theres no pruning in Darkcoin and there is none in Monero.
So feel free to annoy the other 2 mentioned projects with that and set Monero on ignore as you are certainly not interested in it anyway.

CN based coins can easily scale to a high transaction volume, its far from its limit, so is Bitcoin.
Read the Bitcoin scalability page, the disksize for a fullnode is the LEAST issue, network propagation etc are one of the problem.

As already said 1000x times normal people will use an SPV Wallet like they are doing with Bitcoin, and for a fullnode operator the Blockchainsize doesnt matter as diskspace is cheap, yes you heard correctly, diskspace is already pretty cheap in the year 2014 - and btw. running a masternode is not.


However, it will be kinda impossible for the Masternode stuff to "scale" to even Bitcoin levels.

We're all blinded by fanaticism for what we're invested in, to an extent. You'd be lying if you said you don't see it with Monero proponents. As stated by astute observers, Darkcoin is compatible with various pruning schemes, namely the mini blockchain, that CN isn't compatible with. So Darkcoin provides solid anonymity (I know you'll dispute this, but please reserve your zeal for when the bounties appear), and it can scale roughly an order of magnitude better than CN. I'm banking on the fact that 99% of people don't care if their anonymity is provided by ring signatures or magic pixies, as long as transactions can't be traced. So if Darkcoin can't be traced, and it scales an order of magnitude better, it will become the standard.

Sure, you guys will bleat about how ring signatures are cryptographically superior to Darksend. And no one will care. Good luck explaining the difference to people who can barely figure out how to use a wallet. The majority of lay people I've spoken to can't understand how Bitcoin works, nor do they care. The average person couldn't care less about the intricacies of how the result is delivered, but rather only that is is delivered.

[othe]

No you aren´t interested, all you do is flaming against it over and over with the same crap and you are damn learning resistant on that.

And I'll continue flaming it until I see a fix to the issues that I find important. In my opinion, Monero is like a piece of coal. Practically worthless in its current form. With the proper pressure, coal can be compressed into a diamond.

Lets face it, you are just a blinded Darkcoin fanboy.
While you ignore all issues i mentioned on DRK you come here and blub the same stuff over and over again.

The fact is, there is no pruning in Bitcoin, theres no pruning in Darkcoin and there is none in Monero.
So feel free to annoy the other 2 mentioned projects with that and set Monero on ignore as you are certainly not interested in it anyway.

CN based coins can easily scale to a high transaction volume, its far from its limit, so is Bitcoin.
Read the Bitcoin scalability page, the disksize for a fullnode is the LEAST issue, network propagation etc are one of the problem.

As already said 1000x times normal people will use an SPV Wallet like they are doing with Bitcoin, and for a fullnode operator the Blockchainsize doesnt matter as diskspace is cheap, yes you heard correctly, diskspace is already pretty cheap in the year 2014 - and btw. running a masternode is not.


However, it will be kinda impossible for the Masternode stuff to "scale" to even Bitcoin levels.

We're all blinded by fanaticism for what we're invested in, to an extent. You'd be lying if you said you don't see it with Monero proponents. As stated by astute observers, Darkcoin is compatible with various pruning schemes, namely the mini blochain, that CN isn't compatible with. So Darkcoin provides solid anonymity (I know you'll dispute this, but please reserve your zeal for when the bounties appear), and it can scale roughly an order of magnitude better than CN. I'm banking on the fact that 99% of people don't care if their anonymity is provided by ring signatures or magic pixies, as long as transactions can't be traced. So if Darkcoin can't be traced, and it scales an order of magnitude better, it will become the standard.

I am technically interested, barely an investor.
The miniblockchain sheme doesnt provide more than an SPV client.
I already explained you 1000x times the scaling issues have barely todo with DISKSPACE.
But Monero and Darksend will produce bigger transactions simply because there are more in and outputs compared to a standart Bitcoin tx.
Diskspace here is not the issue - the bandwith is one of the issue. See Gavin Andresens latest proposol for a possible fix.

I agree on the fact people won´t care about how privacy is archived, still they care if the anonymity is good. A big plus for Monero that every transaction will be anonymous, no one will have to care about using sth called "darksend" they won´t even understand, there will be no stuck coins from "premixing" or however you guys call it. Every tx is anonymous and instantly send out, i can easily send 10k XMR around with a mixing of 100 or more, just yet without waiting. Without caring about the technical aspects of how it works. Perfect for users.

Please provide additional information and technical facts how the "masternode" stuff will archive an order of magnitude better scaling if it isn't even instant.
I would take a look myself, but reversing closed source binaries is a pain and not worth the time and i am also strictly against security by obscurity, that never worked out.

[Brilliantrocket]

No you aren´t interested, all you do is flaming against it over and over with the same crap and you are damn learning resistant on that.

And I'll continue flaming it until I see a fix to the issues that I find important. In my opinion, Monero is like a piece of coal. Practically worthless in its current form. With the proper pressure, coal can be compressed into a diamond.

Lets face it, you are just a blinded Darkcoin fanboy.
While you ignore all issues i mentioned on DRK you come here and blub the same stuff over and over again.

The fact is, there is no pruning in Bitcoin, theres no pruning in Darkcoin and there is none in Monero.
So feel free to annoy the other 2 mentioned projects with that and set Monero on ignore as you are certainly not interested in it anyway.

CN based coins can easily scale to a high transaction volume, its far from its limit, so is Bitcoin.
Read the Bitcoin scalability page, the disksize for a fullnode is the LEAST issue, network propagation etc are one of the problem.

As already said 1000x times normal people will use an SPV Wallet like they are doing with Bitcoin, and for a fullnode operator the Blockchainsize doesnt matter as diskspace is cheap, yes you heard correctly, diskspace is already pretty cheap in the year 2014 - and btw. running a masternode is not.


However, it will be kinda impossible for the Masternode stuff to "scale" to even Bitcoin levels.

We're all blinded by fanaticism for what we're invested in, to an extent. You'd be lying if you said you don't see it with Monero proponents. As stated by astute observers, Darkcoin is compatible with various pruning schemes, namely the mini blochain, that CN isn't compatible with. So Darkcoin provides solid anonymity (I know you'll dispute this, but please reserve your zeal for when the bounties appear), and it can scale roughly an order of magnitude better than CN. I'm banking on the fact that 99% of people don't care if their anonymity is provided by ring signatures or magic pixies, as long as transactions can't be traced. So if Darkcoin can't be traced, and it scales an order of magnitude better, it will become the standard.

I am technically interested, barely an investor.
The miniblockchain sheme doesnt provide more than an SPV client.
I already explained you 1000x times the scaling issues have barely todo with DISKSPACE.
But Monero and Darksend will produce bigger transactions simply because there are more in and outputs compared to a standart Bitcoin tx.
Diskspace here is not the issue - the bandwith is one of the issue. See Gavin Andresens latest proposol for a possible fix.

I agree on the fact people won´t care about how privacy is archived, still they care if the anonymity is good. A big plus for Monero that every transaction will be anonymous, no one will have to care about using sth called "darksend" they won´t even understand, there will be no stuck coins from "premixing" or however you guys call it. Every tx is anonymous and instantly send out, i can easily send 10k XMR around with a mixing of 100 or more, just yet without waiting. Without caring about the technical aspects of how it works. Perfect for users.

Please provide additional information and technical facts how the "masternode" stuff will archive an order of magnitude better scaling if it isn't even instant.
I would take a look myself, but reversing closed source binaries is a pain and not worth the time and i am also strictly against security by obscurity, that never worked out.

Premixing is a one time, relatively short process. Leave your wallet open, it gets anonymized, you don't think about it again. I've tried it on the testnet and was satisfied that it would not  be an issue for practical use. If you want to understand why bloat is important, read through the posts of Anonymint. He has quite a few posts, but believe me, it's worth it. Just skip through the economic/political stuff and find the ones relative to bloat. I've made my position clear, and I'm tired of pointless arguing.

[Brilliantrocket]

@othe you are losing your time discussing with this troll (Brilliantrocket), I did the same mistake on the rpietila altcoin thread, this troll just keeps repeating the same thing again and again, he is a troll or a completely retarded.

Well, someone who is "completely retarded" has made better gains than you'll ever see in your life. And in the end that's what it all comes down to. I started posting on page 35 of the 2600 page Darkcoin thread. Let's just say, my life has never been better

[Brilliantrocket]

@othe you are losing your time discussing with this troll (Brilliantrocket), I did the same mistake on the rpietila altcoin thread, this troll just keeps repeating the same thing again and again, he is a troll or a completely retarded.

Well, someone who is "completely retarded" has made better gains than you'll ever see in your life. And in the end that's what it all comes down to. I started posting on page 35 of the 2600 page Darkcoin thread. Let's just say, my life has never been better

Good for you, now stopping bashing Monero on the Monero threads please.

Unlike some others , I have the courtesy to stay out of your main thread. However, I feel that creating ten plus threads on this forum is arrogant. And I have a passionate distaste for arrogance.

[saddambitcoin]

@othe you are losing your time discussing with this troll (Brilliantrocket), I did the same mistake on the rpietila altcoin thread, this troll just keeps repeating the same thing again and again, he is a troll or a completely retarded.

Well, someone who is "completely retarded" has made better gains than you'll ever see in your life. And in the end that's what it all comes down to. I started posting on page 35 of the 2600 page Darkcoin thread. Let's just say, my life has never been better

So you came along at a good time. I did the same buying LTC with my BTC in early 2013. But things move fast...better to have an open mind my friend. Open your mind to Monero

[aminorex]

How anyone could trust anything but pocket change to closed source crypto is beyond my ability to imagine.

The vast speculative upside to XMR is predicated on maintaining a level of trustworthiness no less than that of the bitcoin project.  By virtue of learning from the lessons of that project, it should be feasible to raise the bar.  Thus far the development team has been up to the task.

I didn't get any interest in XMR from contacts at Two Sigma, but that may change when there is more liquidity - I don't think they hold any crypto at all institutionally.  I'll be pitching the hedge value of XMR to a couple of small desks that presently do bitcoin, next week.  

But it is really good for the coin, if I tell investors about it?  Concentrated accumulators don't help dispersion, but I think a few deep pockets can help the coin:  I would personally like a floor and low volatility appreciation, and my theory is that working in that direction will make it more attractive to a wider audience, and hence add to dispersion as demand audience enlarges.  It means I don't get to accumulate as much, but what I do hold is likely to appreciate faster, and with more enduring value retention.  

[Brilliantrocket]

@othe you are losing your time discussing with this troll (Brilliantrocket), I did the same mistake on the rpietila altcoin thread, this troll just keeps repeating the same thing again and again, he is a troll or a completely retarded.

Well, someone who is "completely retarded" has made better gains than you'll ever see in your life. And in the end that's what it all comes down to. I started posting on page 35 of the 2600 page Darkcoin thread. Let's just say, my life has never been better

So you came along at a good time. I did the same buying LTC with my BTC in early 2013. But things move fast...better to have an open mind my friend. Open your mind to Monero

Outside of BTC and 2 or 3 alts before I learned about shitcoins and the pump and dump cycle, I have only purchased one cryptocurrency. Could it be luck? I was arguing for the necessity of an anonymous cryptocurrency before Monero was a twinkle in thankful_for_today's eye.

[othe]

@othe you are losing your time discussing with this troll (Brilliantrocket), I did the same mistake on the rpietila altcoin thread, this troll just keeps repeating the same thing again and again, he is a troll or a completely retarded.

Well, someone who is "completely retarded" has made better gains than you'll ever see in your life. And in the end that's what it all comes down to. I started posting on page 35 of the 2600 page Darkcoin thread. Let's just say, my life has never been better

Good for you, now stopping bashing Monero on the Monero threads please.

Unlike some others , I have the courtesy to stay out of your main thread. However, I feel that creating ten plus threads on this forum is arrogant. And I have a passionate distaste for arrogance.

I didn´t know you are a Mod of this forum.
Nor did i know its against the TOS of this forum.

This just shows how narrow minded you are.
People prefer to have clean threads with info and not 1 thread with 2500 pages and too much info to filter.
But you can´t accept other peoples opinions anyway so you offload your trashtalk and ruin ever thread with it.

Great work, you are such a valuable addition to human mankind. Get a life.

[Brilliantrocket]

@othe you are losing your time discussing with this troll (Brilliantrocket), I did the same mistake on the rpietila altcoin thread, this troll just keeps repeating the same thing again and again, he is a troll or a completely retarded.

Well, someone who is "completely retarded" has made better gains than you'll ever see in your life. And in the end that's what it all comes down to. I started posting on page 35 of the 2600 page Darkcoin thread. Let's just say, my life has never been better

Good for you, now stopping bashing Monero on the Monero threads please.

Unlike some others , I have the courtesy to stay out of your main thread. However, I feel that creating ten plus threads on this forum is arrogant. And I have a passionate distaste for arrogance.

I didn´t know you are a Mod of this forum.
Nor did i know its against the TOS of this forum.

This just shows how narrow minded you are.
People prefer to have clean threads with info and not 1 thread with 2500 pages and too much info to filter.
But you can´t accept other peoples opinions anyway so you offload your trashtalk and ruin ever thread with it.

Great work, you are such a valuable addition to human mankind. Get a life.

You're free to make as many threads as you wish, and I'm free to make my voice heard in the way I choose. Because I have decency, I don't say a single negative thing in your main thread. However, if you make a thread to speculate about Monero, I'm free to add my speculation there.

[nioc]

@othe you are losing your time discussing with this troll (Brilliantrocket), I did the same mistake on the rpietila altcoin thread, this troll just keeps repeating the same thing again and again, he is a troll or a completely retarded.

Well, someone who is "completely retarded" has made better gains than you'll ever see in your life. And in the end that's what it all comes down to. I started posting on page 35 of the 2600 page Darkcoin thread. Let's just say, my life has never been better

Brilliantrocket,
What you're posts have done is generate some very well thought out and illuminating responses that will inform all about the current state as well as the potential of Monero.  I thank you for that.  I started investing in Monero before I fully understood it.  The more I learned the more I invested.  The other thing that is impressive is the way the devs and those close to Monero's development respond.  The later is most important because it leads me to believe that Monero's potential will be realized.  You don't have this belief and are waiting for more proof.  That is fine and perfectly understandable.

If you want to understand bloat I would recommend reading the recent discussion in rpietila's alt thread.

[saddambitcoin]

How anyone could trust anything but pocket change to closed source crypto is beyond my ability to imagine.

The vast speculative upside to XMR is predicated on maintaining a level of trustworthiness no less than that of the bitcoin project.  By virtue of learning from the lessons of that project, it should be feasible to raise the bar.  Thus far the development team has been up to the task.

I didn't get any interest in XMR from contacts at Two Sigma, but that may change when there is more liquidity - I don't think they hold any crypto at all institutionally.  I'll be pitching the hedge value of XMR to a couple of small desks that presently do bitcoin, next week.  

But it is really good for the coin, if I tell investors about it?  Concentrated accumulators don't help dispersion, but I think a few deep pockets can help the coin:  I would personally like a floor and low volatility appreciation, and my theory is that working in that direction will make it more attractive to a wider audience, and hence add to dispersion as demand audience enlarges.  It means I don't get to accumulate as much, but what I do hold is likely to appreciate faster, and with more enduring value retention.  

Volatility seems to be decreasing naturally, although you must assume other people are telling their "friends" about Monero too.

The more people that are introduced to the coin early on will only help to dampen the price fluctuation in my opinion.

[saddambitcoin]

This is kind of what it feels like to hold Monero.

[Mumbles]

Wow, wtf? This is the dumbest thing I've heard. You say you are concerned with usability then dismiss a world class GUI for monero and instead switch the topic to bloat? Seriously? Pretty obvious you are either a troll or an idiot. Or both.

When a few months go by without a significant improvement to usability, interest will wane.

There is this crazy little thing called a brand new written-from-scratch-with-extensive-usability-testing GUI that was revealed last week to rave reviews and while a release date has not been announced more than a few months not a very good guess.

Personally, I'm watching Monero very closely.

Seems unlikely given that you didn't know about the GUI.

I'm less concerned with a GUI and more concerned with bloat. A GUI is a trifling thing compared to that. You want applause for delivering the most basic thing that a cryptocurrency could have? When I said usability, I meant real world practicality. Even if you guys released a perfect GUI tomorrow, I wouldn't shift my investments just for that.