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Author Topic: rpietila Altcoin Observer  (Read 387448 times)
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111magic
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July 15, 2015, 06:28:23 AM
 #5021

rpietila my compliments on your thread.
It's nice to read the different ideas about crypto and btc here.

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ejinte
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July 16, 2015, 01:51:16 AM
 #5022

I don't know if this has been shared in this thread already or not, and if it has I apologize for bumping it.

Cyber.fund has rated basically every crypto-currency excising. It can be found here: http://dev.cyber.fund/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=blog&utm_campaign=8

What do you you think about it? In my opinion it's spot on.

 

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July 16, 2015, 02:02:59 AM
 #5023

I don't know if this has been shared in this thread already or not, and if it has I apologize for bumping it.

Cyber.fund has rated basically every crypto-currency excising. It can be found here: http://dev.cyber.fund/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=blog&utm_campaign=8

What do you you think about it? In my opinion it's spot on.

A rating without reasoning isn´t a rating in my eyes.
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July 16, 2015, 02:54:48 AM
 #5024

I don't know if this has been shared in this thread already or not, and if it has I apologize for bumping it.

Cyber.fund has rated basically every crypto-currency excising. It can be found here: http://dev.cyber.fund/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=blog&utm_campaign=8

What do you you think about it? In my opinion it's spot on.

A rating without reasoning isn´t a rating in my eyes.




Here you go, a 79 pages slideshow. It's from earlier this year though so maybe not fully up to date. ^^ That's slide 21.
http://cyber.fund/cyberep

 

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generalizethis
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July 16, 2015, 03:51:48 AM
 #5025

I don't know if this has been shared in this thread already or not, and if it has I apologize for bumping it.

Cyber.fund has rated basically every crypto-currency excising. It can be found here: http://dev.cyber.fund/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=blog&utm_campaign=8

What do you you think about it? In my opinion it's spot on.

A rating without reasoning isn´t a rating in my eyes.




Here you go, a 79 pages slideshow. It's from earlier this year though so maybe not fully up to date. ^^ That's slide 21.
http://cyber.fund/cyberep

Maidsafe and Bitshares listed as anonymous is almost as funny as Ripple getting the highest rating on decentralization.

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July 16, 2015, 08:18:56 AM
 #5026

I don't know if this has been shared in this thread already or not, and if it has I apologize for bumping it.

Cyber.fund has rated basically every crypto-currency excising. It can be found here: http://dev.cyber.fund/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=blog&utm_campaign=8

What do you you think about it? In my opinion it's spot on.

A rating without reasoning isn´t a rating in my eyes.




Here you go, a 79 pages slideshow. It's from earlier this year though so maybe not fully up to date. ^^ That's slide 21.
http://cyber.fund/cyberep

Maidsafe and Bitshares listed as anonymous is almost as funny as Ripple getting the highest rating on decentralization.

I think it got the lowest? Most everything about that list is... well, let's say biased.

I think Monero (XMR) is very interesting.
https://moneroeconomy.com/faq/why-monero-matters
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July 16, 2015, 10:47:57 AM
 #5027

ya i think that slide is rather subjective then objective, proof of garbage doesn´t sound pretty convincing for a rating. Either you stick to the stuff for all coins or you don´t. Cherry Picking is just biased.
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July 16, 2015, 10:49:19 AM
 #5028

I don't know if this has been shared in this thread already or not, and if it has I apologize for bumping it.

Cyber.fund has rated basically every crypto-currency excising. It can be found here: http://dev.cyber.fund/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=blog&utm_campaign=8

What do you you think about it? In my opinion it's spot on.

A rating without reasoning isn´t a rating in my eyes.




Here you go, a 79 pages slideshow. It's from earlier this year though so maybe not fully up to date. ^^ That's slide 21.
http://cyber.fund/cyberep

Maidsafe and Bitshares listed as anonymous is almost as funny as Ripple getting the highest rating on decentralization.

Bytemaster's rating is a 1-7 scale with 7 being the most decentralised in his opinion.
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July 16, 2015, 11:51:22 AM
 #5029


Maidsafe and Bitshares listed as anonymous is almost as funny as Ripple getting the highest rating on decentralization.

in which way is MaidSafe not enough anonymous?

https://localbitcoins.com/?ch=80k | BTC: 1LJvmd1iLi199eY7EVKtNQRW3LqZi8ZmmB
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July 16, 2015, 12:52:46 PM
Last edit: July 16, 2015, 01:22:42 PM by generalizethis
 #5030

Bytemaster's rating is a 1-7 scale with 7 being the most decentralised in his opinion.

Tried to hit the link on the slide show and a search, but nothing came up for the rating system. At least he got that part right. Of course that leads to more questions.  Roll Eyes


Maidsafe and Bitshares listed as anonymous is almost as funny as Ripple getting the highest rating on decentralization.

in which way is MaidSafe not enough anonymous?

I was talking about money, but here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=877398.msg9690423#msg9690423

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July 16, 2015, 01:00:43 PM
 #5031

I don't know if this has been shared in this thread already or not, and if it has I apologize for bumping it.

Cyber.fund has rated basically every crypto-currency excising. It can be found here: http://dev.cyber.fund/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=blog&utm_campaign=8

What do you you think about it? In my opinion it's spot on.

Is it up to date?
Don't think it is.
How about www.coingecko.com ?

bitcoin: bc1qyadvvyv29z08ln2ta7g3uqwzkscr7wq4p09wuz
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July 16, 2015, 05:10:34 PM
 #5032

CryptoNote (digitalNote) is mentioned in this mainstream news website: http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/dissidents-turn-bitcoin-like-cryptocurrency-communicate-free-state-surveillance-1511185
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July 16, 2015, 06:15:04 PM
 #5033

That is quite a coup for Ducknote.  And not bad for Cryptonote in general...
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July 16, 2015, 07:30:49 PM
 #5034

I don't know if this has been shared in this thread already or not, and if it has I apologize for bumping it.

Cyber.fund has rated basically every crypto-currency excising. It can be found here: http://dev.cyber.fund/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=blog&utm_campaign=8

What do you you think about it? In my opinion it's spot on.

Is it up to date?
Don't think it is.
How about www.coingecko.com ?

Yes it's up to date. Coingecko seems to rate coins after reddit followers, liquidity and media attention.

 

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July 16, 2015, 07:43:12 PM
Last edit: July 16, 2015, 09:41:28 PM by smooth
 #5035


Maidsafe and Bitshares listed as anonymous is almost as funny as Ripple getting the highest rating on decentralization.

in which way is MaidSafe not enough anonymous?

I don't know anything about MaidSafe but Bitshares is certainly not anonymous. It has stealth addresses which by themselves are just equivalent to Bitcoin without reusing addresses. There is no mechanism to prevent tracing or blockchain analysis. This was stated by their lead developer on their own forum when it was discussed.

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July 16, 2015, 08:18:28 PM
 #5036


Most readers are probably not aware that Monero is the clear leader in this space or be aware of the ducknote fastmine.

Monero supporters should use the comment section to educate readers and direct them to resources to learn more

AFAIK, XDN's actual emission has always comported with the theoretical/algorithmic.

"Fastmine" is a uselessly subjective, needlessly pejorative term.  No one was stopping you from fastmining XDN and/or buying it when it was dirt cheap.  Compared to BBR, XMR was fastmined... Tongue

Monero doesn't offer (among other unique features) XDN's private/secure/untraceable messaging functionality, so IDK from where you're getting the "leader in this space" assertion.

Let's welcome XDN as the PoS/PoW hybrid Peercoin to Monero's pure PoW Bitcoin.  Being catty and jealous makes us look like Dashcoin's cargo cultists.   Grin


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"The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine
whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
David Chaum 1996
"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect."  Adam Back 2014
Buy and sell XMR near you
P2P Exchange Network
Buy XMR with fiat
Is Dash a scam?
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July 16, 2015, 09:39:18 PM
 #5037


Most readers are probably not aware that Monero is the clear leader in this space or be aware of the ducknote fastmine.

Monero supporters should use the comment section to educate readers and direct them to resources to learn more

AFAIK, XDN's actual emission has always comported with the theoretical/algorithmic.

"Fastmine" is a uselessly subjective, needlessly pejorative term.  No one was stopping you from fastmining XDN and/or buying it when it was dirt cheap.  Compared to BBR, XMR was fastmined... Tongue

I agree with you that fastmine is subjective, but I also think there is something deceptive about mining out most of the coin and then renaming and releasing development plans. It's essentially a premine or instamine that happens in public, really not a lot different from x-code/dark/dash, where Evan instamined a huge portion of the supply with secret plans and then released development plans and a rename (although it happened over a few months instead of a few days)

The only defense against that sort of premine/instamine strategy is to mine (or buy) and hold every single newly released clone coin, in case it turns into something else later, which I view as pretty absurd, and probably makes one more susceptible to being scammed by quick-pump-and-dump coins.

A normal period of relative maturity for a coin or any open source project is a period of years. Mining over that sort of period so there is plentiful supply while people can independently and objectively evaluate what is being done and where it going is pretty reasonable, without needing to get into whether 5 or 10 or 15 or 50 years is the right number. A few months (or hours/days) is not.

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July 16, 2015, 11:00:07 PM
 #5038

I agree with you that fastmine is subjective, but I also think there is something deceptive about mining out most of the coin and then renaming and releasing development plans. It's essentially a premine or instamine that happens in public, really not a lot different from x-code/dark/dash, where Evan instamined a huge portion of the supply with secret plans and then released development plans and a rename (although it happened over a few months instead of a few days)

The only defense against that sort of premine/instamine strategy is to mine (or buy) and hold every single newly released clone coin, in case it turns into something else later, which I view as pretty absurd, and probably makes one more susceptible to being scammed by quick-pump-and-dump coins.

A normal period of relative maturity for a coin or any open source project is a period of years. Mining over that sort of period so there is plentiful supply while people can independently and objectively evaluate what is being done and where it going is pretty reasonable, without needing to get into whether 5 or 10 or 15 or 50 years is the right number. A few months (or hours/days) is not.

It is far too early in the history of e-cash to start huffily declaring what is or isn't a "normal period of relative maturity for a coin."

Noobs will always cry "zomg insta/fast/ninja-mine" because they missed out.  You know this.  And you also know the market will decide.

The DuckNote brand was obviously inspired by Dogecoin's enormous success in making a fun, inclusive, lighthearted, less toxic, less Serious Nerd Business alternative to Bitcoin.  People complain that "Monero" is a stupid name too...and they also whine about XMR emission being too slow/fast/eternal/hot/cold/tepid/not Just Right/etc.

The extremely ambitious XND development plan was released last year, under the DarkNote appellation (*looks for citation, grows lazy, gives up*).

We all had plenty of time to buy and/or mine during the PoW phase.  I will however, admit being somewhat uncomfortable with the surprise shift to PoS, which IMO violates the social contract (and I said so at the time).  But whatever, it's dNotes pet/hobby project and he can do what he wants with it.

You don't seriously expect the a coin's devs to (necessarily) know, much less announce, their roadmap at their coin's launch, do you?

If you do, then I'll point out that XMR's (magnificent) plan for "enterprise grade" scaling wasn't posted until almost a year after launch.

(OMG, how was that fair to all the people who missed their chance to buy cheap land on Monero Mountain??11!??!!1!)

So what if dNote teased us about the Golden Ampersand Bug?  It's unbecoming to punch down instead of up.  Rather than bitterly holding grudges, let's incorporate private messaging into Monero.  That'll show'em!   Cool


PS Thx for the explanation of tail-end emission w/r/t 64bit address space!   Smiley


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Monero
"The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine
whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
David Chaum 1996
"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect."  Adam Back 2014
Buy and sell XMR near you
P2P Exchange Network
Buy XMR with fiat
Is Dash a scam?
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July 16, 2015, 11:11:46 PM
Last edit: July 17, 2015, 12:05:33 AM by smooth
 #5039

The extremely ambitious XND development plan was released last year, under the DarkNote appellation (*looks for citation, grows lazy, gives up*).

I'm pretty sure that is incorrect correct (i.e. it happened after the duckNote->darkNote rename and after most of the fastmine was already burned out), and the first announcement of any development plans and new features such as encrypted messaging was simultaneous with the darknote launch. See for example https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=632595.msg8892752#msg8892752 . I can't find, nor do I remember, anything earlier, and I was (and am) somewhat of a fan of ducknoze's quirky marketing, so I think it is fairly likely I would remember.

My hypothesis (totally unproven, but consistent with the history and a rational analysis of motives) is that they wanted to see whether they could accumulate a huge stash of cheap coins in the first few months of fast mining before revealing anything. If unsuccessful they probably would have just launched another coin instead of the rename/roadmap.

Quote
If you do, then I'll point out that XMR's (magnificent) plan for "enterprise grade" scaling wasn't posted until almost a year after launch.

Yes the difference is that 80% of the coins (or whatever the actual number is for XDN, I don't exactly know) were not already mined.

Furthermore, the Monero project operates (and has always operated) in the open, consisted of people with established reputations (and who didn't know each other), some with real-world identities, and was always open to new participants. It was always stated transparently that the goal was to operate as a long-term open source project and develop the technology in an open-ended manner. The idea of some sort of hidden agenda where plans were withheld in order to take advantage of a cheap coins from a fastmine just doesn't pass the laugh test.

Ducknote/darknote/digitalnote, by contrast, as far as we can verify, consists of one forum nick called dNote with zero history, zero reputation, and whose actions are is entirely consistent with a manipulative scheme to accumulate the bulk of the coins before revealing any specific or significant plans (exactly the same process of disclosure used by x-coin/darkcoin, an equivalnce you seem to want to ignore). If and when the project goes bad or simply fades away (once the fastmine coins have been sufficiently pumped and dumped), the entire reputational cost of that will be one burned forum nick.

I'm really surprised that in this intensely competitive and adversarial environment, someone as astute as you doesn't seem to understand that prudent investment requires interpreting actors and actions in the least favorable light consistent with verifiable facts, and that creating actionable investment situations requires presenting things such that the least favorable light is still favorable. IMO it is clear that Monero has done this, and dNote has not.

Finally, a three month mining period is not the same as a three year mining period. Such a difference in magnitude is a difference in kind.

Quote
Rather than bitterly holding grudges

There is no grudge and I don't really care what dNote does. However, this is a thread for discussing altcoins and specifically altcoin investments an in objective manner, so I'm going to comment on process and incentives, which IMO make dNote (and any other coin operating in that model) an unfavorable and unattractive investment story.

Short term speculation, who knows. If anything pump-and-dump coins can be excellent speculation plays if you can time your own trades to front run what you think the insiders are going to do (difficult, but not necessarily impossible). I think rpietila made this observation about Bytecoin fairly recently

EDIT: First, I misread your post as stating that the roadmap was under duckNote, but I corrected that above. I've now reviewed 100% of dNote's posts prior to the rename and found no evidence of a roadmap prior to the duckNote->darkNote rename. Further, I reviewed the state of the duckNote web site prior on archive.org immediately prior to the rename and found only this roadmap, which shows little to nothing of substance.

Quote from: old ducknote web site
1. Improve High Level API

2. Implement GUI wallets

3. duckNote payment services

4. duckNote payment modules

5. duckNotej development

6. duckNote mobile wallet development

7. Community support

8. Media support
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July 19, 2015, 11:26:11 AM
 #5040

I agree with you that fastmine is subjective, but I also think there is something deceptive about mining out most of the coin and then renaming and releasing development plans. It's essentially a premine or instamine that happens in public, really not a lot different from x-code/dark/dash, where Evan instamined a huge portion of the supply with secret plans and then released development plans and a rename (although it happened over a few months instead of a few days)

The only defense against that sort of premine/instamine strategy is to mine (or buy) and hold every single newly released clone coin, in case it turns into something else later, which I view as pretty absurd, and probably makes one more susceptible to being scammed by quick-pump-and-dump coins.

A normal period of relative maturity for a coin or any open source project is a period of years. Mining over that sort of period so there is plentiful supply while people can independently and objectively evaluate what is being done and where it going is pretty reasonable, without needing to get into whether 5 or 10 or 15 or 50 years is the right number. A few months (or hours/days) is not.

It is far too early in the history of e-cash to start huffily declaring what is or isn't a "normal period of relative maturity for a coin."

Noobs will always cry "zomg insta/fast/ninja-mine" because they missed out.  You know this.  And you also know the market will decide.

The DuckNote brand was obviously inspired by Dogecoin's enormous success in making a fun, inclusive, lighthearted, less toxic, less Serious Nerd Business alternative to Bitcoin.  People complain that "Monero" is a stupid name too...and they also whine about XMR emission being too slow/fast/eternal/hot/cold/tepid/not Just Right/etc.

The extremely ambitious XND development plan was released last year, under the DarkNote appellation (*looks for citation, grows lazy, gives up*).

We all had plenty of time to buy and/or mine during the PoW phase.  I will however, admit being somewhat uncomfortable with the surprise shift to PoS, which IMO violates the social contract (and I said so at the time).  But whatever, it's dNotes pet/hobby project and he can do what he wants with it.

You don't seriously expect the a coin's devs to (necessarily) know, much less announce, their roadmap at their coin's launch, do you?

If you do, then I'll point out that XMR's (magnificent) plan for "enterprise grade" scaling wasn't posted until almost a year after launch.

(OMG, how was that fair to all the people who missed their chance to buy cheap land on Monero Mountain??11!??!!1!)

So what if dNote teased us about the Golden Ampersand Bug?  It's unbecoming to punch down instead of up.  Rather than bitterly holding grudges, let's incorporate private messaging into Monero.  That'll show'em!   Cool


PS Thx for the explanation of tail-end emission w/r/t 64bit address space!   Smiley

Sir, i would like to correct you.
DigitalNote is not a PoS. And Not a PoW/PoS Hybrid now.

It is a pure Proof-of-work cryptocurrency with bank alike blockchain based deposits. But there is NO "mining" function in deposits.
So there is no "violation of the social contract". XDN is a proof-of-work cryptocurrency.

We are working on future Proof-of-activity implementation, based on XDN deposits, but not proof-of-stake.

DigitalNote XDN website http://digitalnote.org
XDN 1st blockchain deposits with interest & instant untraceable crypto messages GUI https://github.com/xdn-project/digitalnotewallet/releases
Bitcointalk topic https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1082745.new#new
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