Its shocking and depressing to read BOTS made bitcoin boom!

[cuddaloreappu]

At the time when bitcoin price is recovering, these news and reports are very sad and depressing to read..

But if the reports are true then the true  value of bitcoin should be around the value before bots were setup right, which could be around 100 $..Rest is all fake,fantasy,illusion....

www.cryptocoinsnews.com/news/report-mtgox-fraud-led-to-1200-bitcoin-price/2014/05/25

http://willyreport.wordpress.com/

[turvarya]

At the time when bitcoin price is recovering, these news and reports are very sad and depressing to read..

But if the reports are true then the true  value of bitcoin should be around the value before bots were setup right, which could be around 100 $..Rest is all fake,fantasy,illusion....

www.cryptocoinsnews.com/news/report-mtgox-fraud-led-to-1200-bitcoin-price/2014/05/25

http://willyreport.wordpress.com/

More like, 30 $(or less), since the run to 100$ was also influenced by that bot.
But that doesn't matter anyway, since the Price is now what it is and I don't see, why it should decrease. (That the increase was manipulated is no good reason for that)
In the Long run, this bot was a good Thing, as sad as it sounds.

[cuddaloreappu]

At the time when bitcoin price is recovering, these news and reports are very sad and depressing to read..

But if the reports are true then the true  value of bitcoin should be around the value before bots were setup right, which could be around 100 $..Rest is all fake,fantasy,illusion....

www.cryptocoinsnews.com/news/report-mtgox-fraud-led-to-1200-bitcoin-price/2014/05/25

http://willyreport.wordpress.com/

More like, 30 $(or less), since the run to 100$ was also influenced by that bot.
But that doesn't matter anyway, since the Price is now what it is and I don't see, why it should decrease. (That the increase was manipulated is no good reason for that)
In the Long run, this bot was a good Thing, as sad as it sounds.

No i think current price cannot sustain if all the price rise was because of the tradingbot...How long can people ride on a fake prices and what will happen if more and more people come to know what they pay for bitcoin was just driven by bots..

[dreamspark]

No i think current price cannot sustain if all the price rise was because of the tradingbot...How long can people ride on a fake prices and what will happen if more and more people come to know what they pay for bitcoin was just driven by bots..

Its not a fake price though. The fact is if this report is true (and I don't think all of it is) the Bitcoins were bought with real money, the customers money yes but real money. This caused the price rise. Now, once the game was up and willy ran in reverse to try and get back the fiat debt owed as when going bankrupt and not continuing the business having the fiat was far more important than having the BTC hence why theoretically it was all sold back to customers who then held the BTC. Where does this all leave the market?

Well like I say if the report is to be believed then yes its shocking (to some anyway) but nothing has changed in the current market. The fact is 650k BTC is still missing and that hasn't changed, whether they were stolen in 2011 and sold off creating the long bear market(likely), stolen by hackers more recently and still controlled by the thief's or Mark has them the supply of coins has not changed. This is where all the money that willy used is 'stored' and until those coins hit the market, which I think they already did, then there is no reason for the price to fall other than a loss of trust within Bitcoin itself.

[blatchcorn]

The crash to $30 would have already of happened if it mattered

[turvarya]

At the time when bitcoin price is recovering, these news and reports are very sad and depressing to read..

But if the reports are true then the true  value of bitcoin should be around the value before bots were setup right, which could be around 100 $..Rest is all fake,fantasy,illusion....

www.cryptocoinsnews.com/news/report-mtgox-fraud-led-to-1200-bitcoin-price/2014/05/25

http://willyreport.wordpress.com/

More like, 30 $(or less), since the run to 100$ was also influenced by that bot.
But that doesn't matter anyway, since the Price is now what it is and I don't see, why it should decrease. (That the increase was manipulated is no good reason for that)
In the Long run, this bot was a good Thing, as sad as it sounds.

No i think current price cannot sustain if all the price rise was because of the tradingbot...How long can people ride on a fake prices and what will happen if more and more people come to know what they pay for bitcoin was just driven by bots..

No offense, but I don't think you understand much about financial markets.
So answer me one question: Who is gonna sell BTC for 100$? I am not, for sure.

If nobody is selling BTC for 100$, than Price is not going there.

[calmindifference]

No i think current price cannot sustain if all the price rise was because of the tradingbot...How long can people ride on a fake prices and what will happen if more and more people come to know what they pay for bitcoin was just driven by bots..

Its not a fake price though. The fact is if this report is true (and I don't think all of it is) the Bitcoins were bought with real money, the customers money yes but real money. This caused the price rise. Now, once the game was up and willy ran in reverse to try and get back the fiat debt owed as when going bankrupt and not continuing the business having the fiat was far more important than having the BTC hence why theoretically it was all sold back to customers who then held the BTC. Where does this all leave the market?

The report suggests the opposite is true and that the fiat used to drive up the price came from nowhere. It's set out in the paragraph after the first spreadsheet screenshot.

[dreamspark]

No i think current price cannot sustain if all the price rise was because of the tradingbot...How long can people ride on a fake prices and what will happen if more and more people come to know what they pay for bitcoin was just driven by bots..

Its not a fake price though. The fact is if this report is true (and I don't think all of it is) the Bitcoins were bought with real money, the customers money yes but real money. This caused the price rise. Now, once the game was up and willy ran in reverse to try and get back the fiat debt owed as when going bankrupt and not continuing the business having the fiat was far more important than having the BTC hence why theoretically it was all sold back to customers who then held the BTC. Where does this all leave the market?

The report suggests the opposite is true and that the fiat used to drive up the price came from nowhere. It's set out in the paragraph after the first spreadsheet screenshot.

It didn't though, it came from customer deposits hence the missing fiat and why it ran in reverse to recoup funds. It all depends how much you believe the report and his assumptions. Instead of thinking about it from the willy side think about it from the seller side. When the seller sells his $1000 BTC and then withdraws the fiat the fiat is coming from customer deposits when it is paid into their bank account so by definition its coming from customer deposits. It shouldn't have been a $1000 maybe but the fact that it is was being paid for with customer funds.

[gnode]

Its shocking and depressing to read that China manipulated BOTS and made bitcoin boom!

[calmindifference]

It didn't though, it came from customer deposits hence the missing fiat and why it ran in reverse to recoup funds. It all depends how much you believe the report and his assumptions. Instead of thinking about it from the willy side think about it from the seller side. When the seller sells his $1000 BTC and then withdraws the fiat the fiat is coming from customer deposits when it is paid into their bank account so by definition its coming from customer deposits. It shouldn't have been a $1000 maybe but the fact that it is was being paid for with customer funds.

In that scenario, you have the 1000USD in the sellers account, but you also have 1000USD allocated to some random depositor's account that was secretly appropriated by willy. Effectively you have 2 people with a valid claim to the same 1000USD, in other words 1000USD has been created out of thin air.

[SomethingElse]

The report is pretty clear.  Looks like a giant ponzi/pump and dump scheme.  Gox was probably in on it.  How could they not have known??? If they didn't, that was real incompetence. 

Lastly, I think the same thing is currently happening in China right now with litecoin.  If you look here http://www.cryptocoincharts.info/v2/coins/show/ltc you can see that almost all the trades in litecoin are from CNY to LTC.  I bet most of that is bots and aren't real trades.

It isn't just bitcoin or litecoin though.  I swear just about every time I buy an altcoin on the exchanges even a small buy on my part moves the market, almost always against me.  Doesn't matter if I bought or sold.  Or maybe I am just unlucky.  But I would bet money that they are bots controlling it all.  I think the bots are pumping Darkcoin right now. 

[crazyivan]

STOP spreading FUD. Who cares what caused the price increase 6 months ago. Do you really want to sabotage the market or what? Do you want your coins to be worth less?

[amitrwt]

So I read the post you linked and I don't think how its relevant to post  6month old price rise..?

[sclaggett]

I fail to understand the point in this whole discussion.  While stabilization in the Bitcoin price is important for it as a currency it is traded.  Trading drives prices up and down.  Who cares who it is done as long as it is not a hack.

[zetaray]

STOP spreading FUD. Who cares what caused the price increase 6 months ago. Do you really want to sabotage the market or what? Do you want your coins to be worth less?

It is not FUD, it's all laid out clearly in the Willy Report. The price of bitcoin now is an aftermath of the boom 6 months ago, so it is important and a lot people DO care. Nobody wish to sabotage the market now. It has already been sabotaged, and we are trying to dig out the truth.

[evoked22]

hmmmm.....

If it was bots that did this, it still requires real money, no?

The overall situation does not make sense because bots are all over all the exchanges pushing prices up and pulling them down as they desire.

Bots also manipulate the stock market and many other things in the financial world. This does not make the outcome any less or more realistic. It just is what it is.

Think about it like counter strike with the bots , yeh its sad, yeh noone likes it BUT it happens.

I for one am grateful for the current price, bot or not. <3

[turvarya]

hmmmm.....

If it was bots that did this, it still requires real money, no?

The overall situation does not make sense because bots are all over all the exchanges pushing prices up and pulling them down as they desire.

Bots also manipulate the stock market and many other things in the financial world. This does not make the outcome any less or more realistic. It just is what it is.

Think about it like counter strike with the bots , yeh its sad, yeh noone likes it BUT it happens.

I for one am grateful for the current price, bot or not. <3

Yes, the real Money of the People who traded on MtGox, not the real Money of the maker of the bot. That's the huge difference here.
Otherwise you would be right. Bots in financial markets are nothing Special.

[kooke]

I'd imagine we would've seen an epic crash to double-digits if rise in the price of BTC was purely triggered and sustained by bots. The report is probably correct in that there is a lot of insider-trading going on, and it'll continue until there are appropriate measures put in place, or exchanges become decentralized.

[cuddaloreappu]

STOP spreading FUD. Who cares what caused the price increase 6 months ago. Do you really want to sabotage the market or what? Do you want your coins to be worth less?

ignoring very important things and brushing them under carpet is as bad as spreading FUD

[spazzdla]

I'd imagine we would've seen an epic crash to double-digits if rise in the price of BTC was purely triggered and sustained by bots. The report is probably correct in that there is a lot of insider-trading going on, and it'll continue until there are appropriate measures put in place, or exchanges become decentralized.

This, Karples got WTF BBQ SAUCE RAPE PWNED for what he did with his bots.  The bots merly started the bull run.  He figured he could rise up the market, crash it and get all the BTC back.. he rose the market up but.. Bitcoin is underestimated and the crash was not what was expected.  He couldn't crash it back to sub 100, and got Fed.  Now we see him burn.