[XC][XCurrency] Decentralised Trustless Privacy Platform / Encrypted XChat / Pos

[synechist]

Any such 'dynamic trust system' seems vulnerable to the iterated prisoners dilemma by design. The goal of any blockchain based currency is fully trustless transactions. That's the entire killer app of bitcoin and bitcoin like systems. 'Dynamic trust models' represent a clear problem that has been *long* known about in the literature.

People should not keep deferring to somebodies resume to assume infallibility. Just because someone is obviously very smart does not mean they are not prone to attempting to 're-invent the wheel' without reference to fields they are not perhaps as familiar with.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner's_dilemma#The_iterated_prisoners.27_dilemma

Great to see some argumentation given. Nothing more refreshing after the trollriver. I'm very keen to hear you out.

For clarity in conversation, can you state exactly how the prisoners' dilemma plays out here? I'm aware of the nature of the scenario, but it's seldom applied in the purely standard way.

We'd need to get Alpharisc to state it for the scenario he foresees for XC. But the problem in general concerns two "rationally self-interested" prisoners who (a) get out of jail if one betrays the other prisoner, (b) get a longer sentence if both prisoners betray each other, or (c) get a shorter sentence if neither of them betray the other.


Edit: the idea is that it's rational to betray the other prisoner. However things get more complicated in the iterative version of the dilemma: prisoners get to repeatedly choose to betray or not betray one another. Alpharisc, to my mind this plays into the hands of a WOT model as long as it's combined with a means of punishment. What's your view?

Alpharisc, you still there? Damn, there I was getting excited for a real live intellectual conversation.

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[adhitthana]

We'd need to get Alpharisc to state it for the scenario he foresees for XC. But the problem in general concerns two "rationally self-interested" prisoners who (a) get out of jail if one betrays the other prisoner, (b) get a longer sentence if both prisoners betray each other, or (c) get a shorter sentence if neither of them betray the other.

Edit: the idea is that it's rational to betray the other prisoner. However things get more complicated in the iterative version of the dilemma: prisoners get to repeatedly choose to betray or not betray one another. Alpharisc, to my mind this plays into the hands of a WOT model as long as it's combined with a means of punishment. What's your view?

Ok I think I see. The node holders need to decide whether they betray (and take coins)??

Or have I been taken in by FUD?

[DRobert]

I'm not going to play the risk game and sell my XC in anticipation of a further sell off. Did that already almost a week ago when it was at 140,000 satoshi and got burned when it hit a rebound. I'm just gonna hold and wait this whole thing out. Maybe in the future I can have an opportunity to acquire more XC then whales play their games...

[synechist]

We'd need to get Alpharisc to state it for the scenario he foresees for XC. But the problem in general concerns two "rationally self-interested" prisoners who (a) get out of jail if one betrays the other prisoner, (b) get a longer sentence if both prisoners betray each other, or (c) get a shorter sentence if neither of them betray the other.

Edit: the idea is that it's rational to betray the other prisoner. However things get more complicated in the iterative version of the dilemma: prisoners get to repeatedly choose to betray or not betray one another. Alpharisc, to my mind this plays into the hands of a WOT model as long as it's combined with a means of punishment. What's your view?

Ok I think I see. The node holders need to decide whether they betray (and take coins)??

Yup, I presume Alpharisc anticipates something like that. But I wouldn't want to put words in his mouth.

He would need to state the scenario - if not with rigour then we'd have to build up a rigorous account of the problem (if it is a problem) through conversation - after which we'd be able to present it to the dev and improve the coin.

[DRobert]

What is with this sell off. Price has gone from 200,000 satoshi to almost 100,000 satoshi in a day. I
haven't seen anything but good news from dev.

[synechist]

We'd need to get Alpharisc to state it for the scenario he foresees for XC. But the problem in general concerns two "rationally self-interested" prisoners who (a) get out of jail if one betrays the other prisoner, (b) get a longer sentence if both prisoners betray each other, or (c) get a shorter sentence if neither of them betray the other.

Edit: the idea is that it's rational to betray the other prisoner. However things get more complicated in the iterative version of the dilemma: prisoners get to repeatedly choose to betray or not betray one another. Alpharisc, to my mind this plays into the hands of a WOT model as long as it's combined with a means of punishment. What's your view?

Ok I think I see. The node holders need to decide whether they betray (and take coins)??

Yup, I presume Alpharisc anticipates something like that. But I wouldn't want to put words in his mouth.

He would need to state the scenario - if not with rigour then we'd have to build up a rigorous account of the problem (if it is a problem) through conversation - after which we'd be able to present it to the dev and improve the coin.

THIS is what these forums are for. How I wish they were employed appropriately.

[mikemikemike]

You guys wanna see something fun? Probably learn a little about market elasticity in the process. I'm gonna run an elasticity test

Basically, I'm gonna test the strength of a possible recovery and buy up a few thousand after I make this post. Hopefully it'll start a bull run up and a recovery, if it doesn't, were gonna break through 0.00125 without a doubt.

[synechist]

You guys wanna see something fun?

I'm gonna test the strength of a possible recovery and buy up a few thousand after I make this post. Hopefully it'll start a bull run up and a recovery, if it doesn't, were gonna break through 0.00125 without a doubt

Things like this are necessary to test the strength of a market. Lets see what happens

Was that 2977.48 order yours?

[lemfuture]

no faucet?

[mikemikemike]

You guys wanna see something fun? Probably learn a little about market elasticity in the process. I'm gonna run an elasticity test

Basically, I'm gonna test the strength of a possible recovery and buy up a few thousand after I make this post. Hopefully it'll start a bull run up and a recovery, if it doesn't, were gonna break through 0.00125 without a doubt.

Was that 2977.48 order yours?

That and a few others I've been putting in over the last twenty minutes. It's kinda building a bull run. I usually do them as soon as we test key support levels like the 0.00125 we did in the last thirty minutes

[BrewCrewFan]

Wow. Glad I woke up. Looks like we're going to test 0.001225 again, probably rebound @ 0.001. If we fall through 0.001 then I suggest everyone gets their buy orders in above 0.00075, anything lower than that is crazy.

I agree that it's trying to retest.  At first glance there is about 100btc of buy support between 12 and 125.

Yea. Problem is I don't think even if we rebound off of 0.0012 range we will last that long, I think we will keep retesting it until we break through. And It is only 100BTC. I've got 80k coins left that might have to go, will prob then rebuy @ 0.001. Lets wait for this bull trap to finish then ill decide

80k?!?!?! WOW! I have 180 and I thought that was a lot..

Some of us actually hold. Kinda getting little worried seeing how everything is cut in half now :/

[synechist]

You guys wanna see something fun?

I'm gonna test the strength of a possible recovery and buy up a few thousand after I make this post. Hopefully it'll start a bull run up and a recovery, if it doesn't, were gonna break through 0.00125 without a doubt

Things like this are necessary to test the strength of a market. Lets see what happens

Was that 2977.48 order yours?

That and a few others I've been putting in over the last twenty minutes.  It's kinda building a bull run. I usually do them as soon as we test key support levels like the 0.00125 we did in the last thirty minutes

Ha ha. Great strategy. Lovely to have the capital to do it.

Good timing too. The wicks of the previous two candles make a bullish order look plausible.

[mikemikemike]

You guys wanna see something fun?

I'm gonna test the strength of a possible recovery and buy up a few thousand after I make this post. Hopefully it'll start a bull run up and a recovery, if it doesn't, were gonna break through 0.00125 without a doubt

Things like this are necessary to test the strength of a market. Lets see what happens

Was that 2977.48 order yours?

That and a few others I've been putting in over the last twenty minutes.  It's kinda building a bull run. I usually do them as soon as we test key support levels like the 0.00125 we did in the last thirty minutes

Ha ha. Great strategy. Lovely to have the capital to do it.

Good timing too. The wicks of the previous two candles make a bullish order look plausible.

Ahh it's called an elasticity test. When the market looks strained you put a bit of pressure on it one way and see if it pulls back. It's kind of necessary in situations like these, gives me a good indicator on the strength of a recovery and ultimately whether to dump or not, plus I've timed it pretty well to give the charts a sense of recovery, if it fails then there is little strength and the chance of the downward trend continuing is extremely high. I'm gonna pull it a few more times then go for this swim. Pool doesn't open for another ten minutes so might aswell use this time wisely. If the next couple of candles on the 30m chart don't assume a recovery I strongly suggest everybody dumps before I do.

Also, to add, most of the other whales out there don't check this forum, they will be sitting either in an office or there homes with four screens running every indicator they have. And I've just thrown them all out of wack. Might cause them to get jumpy and rebuy.

Lets see what happens. Good luck people.

[synechist]

You guys wanna see something fun?

I'm gonna test the strength of a possible recovery and buy up a few thousand after I make this post. Hopefully it'll start a bull run up and a recovery, if it doesn't, were gonna break through 0.00125 without a doubt

Things like this are necessary to test the strength of a market. Lets see what happens

Was that 2977.48 order yours?

That and a few others I've been putting in over the last twenty minutes.  It's kinda building a bull run. I usually do them as soon as we test key support levels like the 0.00125 we did in the last thirty minutes

Ha ha. Great strategy. Lovely to have the capital to do it.

Good timing too. The wicks of the previous two candles make a bullish order look plausible.

Ahh it's called an elasticity test. When the market looks strained you put a bit of pressure on it one way and see if it pulls back. It's kind of necessary in situations like these, gives me a good indicator on the strength of a recovery and ultimately whether to dump or not, plus I've timed it pretty well to give the charts a sense of recovery, if it fails then there is little strength and the chance of the downward trend continuing is extremely high. I'm gonna pull it a few more times then go for this swim. Pool doesn't open for another ten minutes so might aswell use this time wisely. If the next couple of candles on the 30m chart don't assume a recovery I strongly suggest everybody dumps before I do.

Good luck people.

Fascinating. It must be a lot easier when you don't have to rely purely on chart patterns. Being able to physically test the market is amazing.

[synechist]

You guys wanna see something fun?

I'm gonna test the strength of a possible recovery and buy up a few thousand after I make this post. Hopefully it'll start a bull run up and a recovery, if it doesn't, were gonna break through 0.00125 without a doubt

Things like this are necessary to test the strength of a market. Lets see what happens

Was that 2977.48 order yours?

That and a few others I've been putting in over the last twenty minutes.  It's kinda building a bull run. I usually do them as soon as we test key support levels like the 0.00125 we did in the last thirty minutes

Ha ha. Great strategy. Lovely to have the capital to do it.

Good timing too. The wicks of the previous two candles make a bullish order look plausible.

Ahh it's called an elasticity test. When the market looks strained you put a bit of pressure on it one way and see if it pulls back. It's kind of necessary in situations like these, gives me a good indicator on the strength of a recovery and ultimately whether to dump or not, plus I've timed it pretty well to give the charts a sense of recovery, if it fails then there is little strength and the chance of the downward trend continuing is extremely high. I'm gonna pull it a few more times then go for this swim. Pool doesn't open for another ten minutes so might aswell use this time wisely. If the next couple of candles on the 30m chart don't assume a recovery I strongly suggest everybody dumps before I do.

Good luck people.

Fascinating. It must be a lot easier when you don't have to rely purely on chart patterns. Being able to physically test the market is amazing.

I discovered a fun strategy during an especially quiet time on Bitfinex. I'd put in a miniscule sell in the first second of a candle to start it low, and then keep it bullish with miniscule buys at opportune times. The chart comes out bullish with minimal expense. Not that the gains were especially meaningful in a market as quiet as that, but it's a nice way to reduce ambiguity on a chart.

[provenceday]

You guys wanna see something fun?

I'm gonna test the strength of a possible recovery and buy up a few thousand after I make this post. Hopefully it'll start a bull run up and a recovery, if it doesn't, were gonna break through 0.00125 without a doubt

Things like this are necessary to test the strength of a market. Lets see what happens

Was that 2977.48 order yours?

That and a few others I've been putting in over the last twenty minutes.  It's kinda building a bull run. I usually do them as soon as we test key support levels like the 0.00125 we did in the last thirty minutes

Ha ha. Great strategy. Lovely to have the capital to do it.

Good timing too. The wicks of the previous two candles make a bullish order look plausible.

Ahh it's called an elasticity test. When the market looks strained you put a bit of pressure on it one way and see if it pulls back. It's kind of necessary in situations like these, gives me a good indicator on the strength of a recovery and ultimately whether to dump or not, plus I've timed it pretty well to give the charts a sense of recovery, if it fails then there is little strength and the chance of the downward trend continuing is extremely high. I'm gonna pull it a few more times then go for this swim. Pool doesn't open for another ten minutes so might aswell use this time wisely. If the next couple of candles on the 30m chart don't assume a recovery I strongly suggest everybody dumps before I do.

Good luck people.

haha if you want a long term investment, the best thing is just hold your coin???

[mikemikemike]

You guys wanna see something fun?

I'm gonna test the strength of a possible recovery and buy up a few thousand after I make this post. Hopefully it'll start a bull run up and a recovery, if it doesn't, were gonna break through 0.00125 without a doubt

Things like this are necessary to test the strength of a market. Lets see what happens

Was that 2977.48 order yours?

That and a few others I've been putting in over the last twenty minutes.  It's kinda building a bull run. I usually do them as soon as we test key support levels like the 0.00125 we did in the last thirty minutes

Ha ha. Great strategy. Lovely to have the capital to do it.

Good timing too. The wicks of the previous two candles make a bullish order look plausible.

Ahh it's called an elasticity test. When the market looks strained you put a bit of pressure on it one way and see if it pulls back. It's kind of necessary in situations like these, gives me a good indicator on the strength of a recovery and ultimately whether to dump or not, plus I've timed it pretty well to give the charts a sense of recovery, if it fails then there is little strength and the chance of the downward trend continuing is extremely high. I'm gonna pull it a few more times then go for this swim. Pool doesn't open for another ten minutes so might aswell use this time wisely. If the next couple of candles on the 30m chart don't assume a recovery I strongly suggest everybody dumps before I do.

Also, to add, most of the other whales out there don't check this forum, they will be sitting either in an office or there homes with four screens running every indicator they have. And I've just thrown them all out of wack. Might cause them to get jumpy and rebuy.

Lets see what happens. Good luck people.

Fascinating. It must be a lot easier when you don't have to rely purely on chart patterns. Being able to physically test the market is amazing.

I discovered a fun strategy during an especially quiet time on Bitfinex. I'd put in a miniscule sell in the first second of a candle to start it low, and then keep it bullish with miniscule buys at opportune times. The chart comes out bullish with minimal expense. Not that the gains were especially meaningful in a market as quiet as that, but it's a nice way to reduce ambiguity on a chart.

Yea. Manipulating charts isn't too hard. I do it at times like these throw off other whales and see how they would react to changing circumstances. Things like this occasionally trigger recoveries but I must say its looking like a futile attempt

Anyways, That's a nice strategy, shows you can do it with even the smallest of amounts. Hahaha its kinda worrying considering I spent most my time reading charts, people like you make my life a nightmare

[provenceday]

everytime when price is down, there are some big whale just want to get more XC coin...

0.00120000   32573.13975121   39.08776765  buy

[adhitthana]

What is with this sell off. Price has gone from 200,000 satoshi to almost 100,000 satoshi in a day. I
haven't seen anything but good news from dev.

Well we just has someone say they might need to sell 80,000 coins.

[mikemikemike]

You guys wanna see something fun?

I'm gonna test the strength of a possible recovery and buy up a few thousand after I make this post. Hopefully it'll start a bull run up and a recovery, if it doesn't, were gonna break through 0.00125 without a doubt

Things like this are necessary to test the strength of a market. Lets see what happens

Was that 2977.48 order yours?

That and a few others I've been putting in over the last twenty minutes.  It's kinda building a bull run. I usually do them as soon as we test key support levels like the 0.00125 we did in the last thirty minutes

Ha ha. Great strategy. Lovely to have the capital to do it.

Good timing too. The wicks of the previous two candles make a bullish order look plausible.

Ahh it's called an elasticity test. When the market looks strained you put a bit of pressure on it one way and see if it pulls back. It's kind of necessary in situations like these, gives me a good indicator on the strength of a recovery and ultimately whether to dump or not, plus I've timed it pretty well to give the charts a sense of recovery, if it fails then there is little strength and the chance of the downward trend continuing is extremely high. I'm gonna pull it a few more times then go for this swim. Pool doesn't open for another ten minutes so might aswell use this time wisely. If the next couple of candles on the 30m chart don't assume a recovery I strongly suggest everybody dumps before I do.

Good luck people.

haha if you want a long term investment, the best thing is just hold your coin???

I hate to break the news to you but I'm not a long term investor. Just a whale with a conscience

Just to clarify though, I wouldn't be here if I didn't believe this market would be successful in the long term. I only trade in markets I believe will go up overtime, otherwise they could just crash through the floor and never recover.