[796.com] RedStarMining.com - the oldest public mining security [15.0(TH/s)]

[matthewh3]

I was told by one new investor to wait before issuing the 300 new shares at BTC0.30 we would need to fully pay for ASIC #4 to takes to 160(GH/s)@~3100 shares or 51.612903226(MH/s)per share.  If I did issue the 300 new shares it would mean we would have to sell ~782 to fully pay for ASIC #4 (including the ~160 for ASIC #3).  Does anyone else have a view.

We currently have ~300 for sale at BTC0.30 but we only need to sell ~160 for ASIC #3.  Does this mean I should take the other ~140 shares down?  I think we should keep perpetually issuing new share as long as we can sell them if and only if it going to rise our (MH/s)per share rate and/or profits. 

I would agree with the other investor. you dont want to have a large sell wall as it will encourage low ball bidding and undercutting of current share price.

OK well we will hold a motion on it.  I'll put the motion up tonight by 02:00GMT to run until this Friday 00:00AM. 

We are only a very small company and if we can attract more investment into RSM to increase profits then it should be attracted.  There is no point just letting RSM sit there stagnating until we finally receive our ASIC's.  If we can sell more share to increase profits then it should be done.  Issuing share for ASIC #4 will increase profits by around ~7% and I think it'd be silly not to.  Also may I remind you's that any unsold shares that RSM holds from its issues receive no dividends and do not affect the (MH/s)per share ratio.

Also we have been offered by Inaba (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=8198) for him to host and run our ASIC's for us at $20 a month per ASIC.  This would save us $300 VAT fees per ASIC and enable after I have converted our £180VAT cash back into coin to purchase ASIC #3.  Taking us up to 52.747252747(MH/s)per share and means no share issue is needed for ASIC #4 and only <500 shares need to be sold for ASIC #4.  Taking us to 160(GH/s)@2800 shares or up to the lofty heights of 57.142857143(MH/s)per share or 1(GH/s)@BTC5.25.  I think we can trust Inaba and many other people use his service.  So what are people use on using Inaba at to host the ASIC's.  Should I put a motion on that too?

[1714065690]

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[1714065690]

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[matthewh3]

I was told by one new investor to wait before issuing the 300 new shares at BTC0.30 we would need to fully pay for ASIC #4 to takes to 160(GH/s)@~3100 shares or 51.612903226(MH/s)per share.  If I did issue the 300 new shares it would mean we would have to sell ~782 to fully pay for ASIC #4 (including the ~160 for ASIC #3).  Does anyone else have a view.

We currently have ~300 for sale at BTC0.30 but we only need to sell ~160 for ASIC #3.  Does this mean I should take the other ~140 shares down?  I think we should keep perpetually issuing new share as long as we can sell them if and only if it going to rise our (MH/s)per share rate and/or profits. 

I would agree with the other investor. you dont want to have a large sell wall as it will encourage low ball bidding and undercutting of current share price.

OK well we will hold a motion on it.  I'll put the motion up tonight by 02:00GMT to run until this Friday 00:00AM. 

We are only a very small company and if we can attract more investment into RSM to increase profits then it should be attracted.  There is no point just letting RSM sit there stagnating until we finally receive our ASIC's.  If we can sell more share to increase profits then it should be done.  Issuing share for ASIC #4 will increase profits by around ~7% and I think it'd be silly not to.  Also may I remind you's that any unsold shares that RSM holds from its issues receive no dividends and do not affect the (MH/s)per share ratio.

Also we have been offered by Inaba (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=8198) for him to host and run our ASIC's for us at $20 a month per ASIC.  This would save us $300 VAT fees per ASIC and enable after I have converted our £180VAT cash back into coin to purchase ASIC #3.  Taking us up to 52.747252747(MH/s)per share and means no share issue is needed for ASIC #4 and only <500 shares need to be sold for ASIC #4.  Taking us to 160(GH/s)@2800 shares or up to the lofty heights of 57.142857143(MH/s)per share or 1(GH/s)@BTC5.25.  I think we can trust Inaba and many other people use his service.  So what are people use on using Inaba at to host the ASIC's.  Should I put a motion on that too?

I'll just put the single motion up regarding Inaba (who runs - https://eclipsemc.com/index.php) hosting our boards as no new shares need to be issued then.  All RSM would have to do is sell the 498 it holds in total and we'd be at 160(GH/s)@2800 shares or up to the lofty heights of 57.142857143(MH/s)per share or 1(GH/s)@BTC5.25.

Inaba hosting the ASIC's at $20 a month each work out it costs us nothing after taking in to account the $300VAT fee per board and electricity costs.  It's also going to increase profits and therefore dividends by ~20%.  So I hope you all vote.  The motion will be up within the next twelve hours and run until Friday 23:59.

[matthewh3]

New motion - https://glbse.com/vote/view/138 - Please vote

Vote (Yes) for Inaba to host our ASIC's for $20 a month per board all in.

Or

Vote (Nay) for CEO to host the ASIC's at $300VAT fees per board and to deduct electrical costs.

[matthewh3]

New motion - https://glbse.com/vote/view/138 - Please vote

Vote (Yes) for Inaba to host our ASIC's for $20 a month per board all in.

Or

Vote (Nay) for CEO to host the ASIC's at $300VAT fees per board and to deduct electrical costs.

I've not voted yet and you can change your vote at any time.  With $300VAT fees and electricity costs to take into account and the fact ASIC speeds should double every eighteen months.  Paying $20 a month may work out cheaper over the life of the ASIC and its certainly cheaper for the first eighteen months.  By which time the ASIC will start being outdated if even still working (we only get six months warranty).  After the eighteen months are over and the ASIC is getting out of date we can ship it VAT free or sell it on (if still working).   

[Evolvex]

I think it makes sense that Inaba helps us to host them - I havent had any dealings with him, but from what I have read I think he seems like a cool guy.

Some very quick maths and it seems to me like RSM would basically be saving the elec costs over the course of the products 12-18m lifespan.

As for the share question, as much as I agree we cant let the company stagnate whilst we wait for the ASIC's, there are other areas we could work on - other avenues we can look at (investments, other revenue streams etc), dumping all we have into hardware we (no body) have not seen yet sounds like a big risk, and why stop at ASIC's 4, 5,6... I'm not sure diluting the shares this early on when revenue streams havent been proven yet is the way to go.

(hope I'm not treading on the toes with the above btw - this is all still a bit new to me I must admit, so I am still feeling myself around a little).

[k3t3r]

another thing is that inaba can access the asic much quicker than it would be to post to mathew in the UK. inaba could have the asic set up and running beffore they asics had gotten to a shipping container. potentially saving 2-4 weeks of waiting.

[Evolvex]

another thing is that inaba can access the asic much quicker than it would be to post to mathew in the UK. inaba could have the asic set up and running beffore they asics had gotten to a shipping container. potentially saving 2-4 weeks of waiting.

Indeed, I hadnt thought of that - win win I say.

[matthewh3]

I think it makes sense that Inaba helps us to host them - I havent had any dealings with him, but from what I have read I think he seems like a cool guy.

Some very quick maths and it seems to me like RSM would basically be saving the elec costs over the course of the products 12-18m lifespan.

As for the share question, as much as I agree we cant let the company stagnate whilst we wait for the ASIC's, there are other areas we could work on - other avenues we can look at (investments, other revenue streams etc), dumping all we have into hardware we (no body) have not seen yet sounds like a big risk, and why stop at ASIC's 4, 5,6... I'm not sure diluting the shares this early on when revenue streams havent been proven yet is the way to go.

(hope I'm not treading on the toes with the above btw - this is all still a bit new to me I must admit, so I am still feeling myself around a little).

The shares would not be being diluted.  The (MH/s)per share would be rising and therefore profits and dividends.  I would only ever put forward the idea to issue more shares if it was to increase profits and therefore dividends. 

Anyway looks like we don't have to issue shares for board #4 if we go with Inaba.  This will take us to 160(GH/s)@2800 shares or 57.142857143(MH/s)per share.  Although after we have sold these ~400 shares for ASIC #4 only ~300 would be needed to be issued for ASIC #5 to take us to 200(GH/s)@3125 shares or 64.017692162(MH/s)per share.  Which would be an increase in profits and therefore dividends of at least 6%.

So if the motion passes I would have to pay back the £180VAT cash as soon as possible.  Although we already have enough BTC in our wallet to pre-order our third board.

Also I've just got a message off Nefario (guy who built the GLBSE and general bitcoin whiz-kid) on Facebook who has just finished the London Bitcoin Conference on the matter of BFL ASIC's -

"Oh some good news, butterfly labs is legit, if you've pre-ordered some asics from them things should go well."

[matthewh3]

I don't know if you's have been keeping up with the news at DMC - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=77469.780 - but they may be looking for a new CEO and I have put in this offer -

If you are to vote on changing the CEO I may be able to help by absorbing your DMC assets into Red Star Mining - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=63257.0 -.  RSM is currently working on a motion to raise us to 57.142857143(MH/s)per share at BTC0.30 each or 1(GH/s)@BTC5.25.  What I think best would happen is RSM absorbs DMC assets and pays DMC around the going rate for them in RSM shares.  So DMC receives weekly dividends from RSM and then I use them or pay them out as DMC share holders see fit in a motion.  I can't promise to be able to offer this service yet as I'd have to get it to pass a motion of RSM shareholders.  Also RSM shareholders would only take it on if it wasn't going to hurt them and can profit from it as well some how.

Any early opinions from RSM shareholders?

[matthewh3]

I don't know if you's have been keeping up with the news at DMC - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=77469.780 - but they may be looking for a new CEO and I have put in this offer -

If you are to vote on changing the CEO I may be able to help by absorbing your DMC assets into Red Star Mining - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=63257.0 -.  RSM is currently working on a motion to raise us to 57.142857143(MH/s)per share at BTC0.30 each or 1(GH/s)@BTC5.25.  What I think best would happen is RSM absorbs DMC assets and pays DMC around the going rate for them in RSM shares.  So DMC receives weekly dividends from RSM and then I use them or pay them out as DMC share holders see fit in a motion.  I can't promise to be able to offer this service yet as I'd have to get it to pass a motion of RSM shareholders.  Also RSM shareholders would only take it on if it wasn't going to hurt them and can profit from it as well some how.

Any early opinions from RSM shareholders?

DMC currently holds

40 BTC-MINING (370 mhash) = 38.80 BTC (14800 mhash)
951 BTCMC (7 mhash) = 551.58 BTC (6657 mhash)
5113 OBSI.ABMO (11 mhash) = 434.61 BTC (56243 mhash)
2080 ASICMINER (30 mhash) = 228.17 BTC (62400 mhash)

(Although this could be wrong.  More research would have to be done if DMC shareholders agree before I put it to RSM motion.)

Which in my proposal would be transferred to RSM then DMC would receive the appropriate amount of RSM shares which DMC would receive normal dividends off RSM on the RSM shares they hold.  

[k3t3r]

I don't know if you's have been keeping up with the news at DMC - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=77469.780 - but they may be looking for a new CEO and I have put in this offer -

If you are to vote on changing the CEO I may be able to help by absorbing your DMC assets into Red Star Mining - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=63257.0 -.  RSM is currently working on a motion to raise us to 57.142857143(MH/s)per share at BTC0.30 each or 1(GH/s)@BTC5.25.  What I think best would happen is RSM absorbs DMC assets and pays DMC around the going rate for them in RSM shares.  So DMC receives weekly dividends from RSM and then I use them or pay them out as DMC share holders see fit in a motion.  I can't promise to be able to offer this service yet as I'd have to get it to pass a motion of RSM shareholders.  Also RSM shareholders would only take it on if it wasn't going to hurt them and can profit from it as well some how.

Any early opinions from RSM shareholders?

DMC currently holds

40 BTC-MINING (370 mhash) = 38.80 BTC (14800 mhash)
951 BTCMC (7 mhash) = 551.58 BTC (6657 mhash)
5113 OBSI.ABMO (11 mhash) = 434.61 BTC (56243 mhash)
2080 ASICMINER (30 mhash) = 228.17 BTC (62400 mhash)

(Although this could be wrong.  More research would have to be done if DMC shareholders agree before I put it to RSM motion.)

Which in my proposal would be transferred to RSM then DMC would receive the appropriate amount of RSM shares which DMC would receive normal dividends off RSM on the RSM shares they hold.  

isnt that just bailing out a failed company, a badly managed failed company with a lot of upset share holders. what do you think are the benefits to RSM and its investors?

[matthewh3]

I don't know if you's have been keeping up with the news at DMC - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=77469.780 - but they may be looking for a new CEO and I have put in this offer -

If you are to vote on changing the CEO I may be able to help by absorbing your DMC assets into Red Star Mining - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=63257.0 -.  RSM is currently working on a motion to raise us to 57.142857143(MH/s)per share at BTC0.30 each or 1(GH/s)@BTC5.25.  What I think best would happen is RSM absorbs DMC assets and pays DMC around the going rate for them in RSM shares.  So DMC receives weekly dividends from RSM and then I use them or pay them out as DMC share holders see fit in a motion.  I can't promise to be able to offer this service yet as I'd have to get it to pass a motion of RSM shareholders.  Also RSM shareholders would only take it on if it wasn't going to hurt them and can profit from it as well some how.

Any early opinions from RSM shareholders?

DMC currently holds

40 BTC-MINING (370 mhash) = 38.80 BTC (14800 mhash)
951 BTCMC (7 mhash) = 551.58 BTC (6657 mhash)
5113 OBSI.ABMO (11 mhash) = 434.61 BTC (56243 mhash)
2080 ASICMINER (30 mhash) = 228.17 BTC (62400 mhash)

(Although this could be wrong.  More research would have to be done if DMC shareholders agree before I put it to RSM motion.)

Which in my proposal would be transferred to RSM then DMC would receive the appropriate amount of RSM shares which DMC would receive normal dividends off RSM on the RSM shares they hold.  

isnt that just bailing out a failed company, a badly managed failed company with a lot of upset share holders. what do you think are the benefits to RSM and its investors?

We would only issue DMC with RSM shares for there assets that are of value and would make RSM money.  Yes DMC shareholders have already lost a lot of money but rather than just liquidizing there assets and shutting up shop it may be beneficial for them to trade them in for RSM shares.  As RSM has a future and a growth plan.  We have managed to ride the wave of GPU > FPGA > ASIC changes OK (just about  ).  So it may help DMC and RSM shareholders.  We would only pay in RSM shares what the valuable DMC assets are worth for no more than market value.

[matthewh3]

I don't know if you's have been keeping up with the news at DMC - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=77469.780 - but they may be looking for a new CEO and I have put in this offer -

If you are to vote on changing the CEO I may be able to help by absorbing your DMC assets into Red Star Mining - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=63257.0 -.  RSM is currently working on a motion to raise us to 57.142857143(MH/s)per share at BTC0.30 each or 1(GH/s)@BTC5.25.  What I think best would happen is RSM absorbs DMC assets and pays DMC around the going rate for them in RSM shares.  So DMC receives weekly dividends from RSM and then I use them or pay them out as DMC share holders see fit in a motion.  I can't promise to be able to offer this service yet as I'd have to get it to pass a motion of RSM shareholders.  Also RSM shareholders would only take it on if it wasn't going to hurt them and can profit from it as well some how.

Any early opinions from RSM shareholders?

DMC currently holds

40 BTC-MINING (370 mhash) = 38.80 BTC (14800 mhash)
951 BTCMC (7 mhash) = 551.58 BTC (6657 mhash)
5113 OBSI.ABMO (11 mhash) = 434.61 BTC (56243 mhash)
2080 ASICMINER (30 mhash) = 228.17 BTC (62400 mhash)

(Although this could be wrong.  More research would have to be done if DMC shareholders agree before I put it to RSM motion.)

Which in my proposal would be transferred to RSM then DMC would receive the appropriate amount of RSM shares which DMC would receive normal dividends off RSM on the RSM shares they hold.  

isnt that just bailing out a failed company, a badly managed failed company with a lot of upset share holders. what do you think are the benefits to RSM and its investors?

We would only issue DMC with RSM shares for there assets that are of value and would make RSM money.  Yes DMC shareholders have already lost a lot of money but rather than just liquidizing there assets and shutting up shop it may be beneficial for them to trade them in for RSM shares.  As RSM has a future and a growth plan.  We have managed to ride the wave of GPU > FPGA > ASIC changes OK (just about   ).  So it may help DMC and RSM shareholders.  We would only pay in RSM shares what the valuable DMC assets are worth for no more than market value.

Say we took DMC's good assets at a 5% cut?  RSM grows healthy and DMC still has a healthy future but now within and as a major shareholder of RSM.

[k3t3r]

We would only issue DMC with RSM shares for there assets that are of value and would make RSM money.  Yes DMC shareholders have already lost a lot of money but rather than just liquidizing there assets and shutting up shop it may be beneficial for them to trade them in for RSM shares.  As RSM has a future and a growth plan.  We have managed to ride the wave of GPU > FPGA > ASIC changes OK (just about  ).  So it may help DMC and RSM shareholders.  We would only pay in RSM shares what the valuable DMC assets are worth for no more than market value.

you want to trade RSM for DMC assets at no more than market value.  isnt this what made DMC such a failue, making deals outside it primary objectives and purchasin other bad assets. i am sure this would help DMC share holders but i dont see anything that would benefit RSM. if you can show how this adds value to RSM then great, but i dont see it right now.

[matthewh3]

We would only issue DMC with RSM shares for there assets that are of value and would make RSM money.  Yes DMC shareholders have already lost a lot of money but rather than just liquidizing there assets and shutting up shop it may be beneficial for them to trade them in for RSM shares.  As RSM has a future and a growth plan.  We have managed to ride the wave of GPU > FPGA > ASIC changes OK (just about  ).  So it may help DMC and RSM shareholders.  We would only pay in RSM shares what the valuable DMC assets are worth for no more than market value.

you want to trade RSM for DMC assets at no more than market value.  isnt this what made DMC such a failue, making deals outside it primary objectives and purchasin other bad assets. i am sure this would help DMC share holders but i dont see anything that would benefit RSM. if you can show how this adds value to RSM then great, but i dont see it right now.

DMC currently holds

40 BTC-MINING (370 mhash) = 38.80 BTC (14800 mhash)
951 BTCMC (7 mhash) = 551.58 BTC (6657 mhash)
5113 OBSI.ABMO (11 mhash) = 434.61 BTC (56243 mhash)
2080 ASICMINER (30 mhash) = 228.17 BTC (62400 mhash)

If this is correct then they have a lot of value.  Part of the deal could selling (some) of DMC assets to purchase more ASIC's so our (MH/s)per share isn't hit too bad (with us receiving dividends from the DMC assets we still hold).  Or the deal could be we sell all DMC assets to purchase more ASIC's and pay DMC the value we get in RSM shares.  So the RSM (MH/s)per share goes up and therefore profits and dividends go up with the new rise in (MH/s)per share.

[k3t3r]

DMC currently holds

40 BTC-MINING (370 mhash) = 38.80 BTC (14800 mhash)
951 BTCMC (7 mhash) = 551.58 BTC (6657 mhash)
5113 OBSI.ABMO (11 mhash) = 434.61 BTC (56243 mhash)
2080 ASICMINER (30 mhash) = 228.17 BTC (62400 mhash)

have you evaluated these assets to assess what they might return RSM and whether the current market price is fair?

[matthewh3]

DMC currently holds

40 BTC-MINING (370 mhash) = 38.80 BTC (14800 mhash)
951 BTCMC (7 mhash) = 551.58 BTC (6657 mhash)
5113 OBSI.ABMO (11 mhash) = 434.61 BTC (56243 mhash)
2080 ASICMINER (30 mhash) = 228.17 BTC (62400 mhash)

have you evaluated these assets to assess what they might return RSM and whether the current market price is fair?

I just proposed the idea to DMC shareholders in there thread to see what they think rather than just liquidizing there assets as some want.  Of course it would have to pass an RSM motion if they agreed.  In the basic its just taking DMC assets rather then them liquidizing and selling them to RSM for RSM assets.  We could just buy ASIC's if we wanted with the assets funds or cherry pick the best (dividend bearing) stocks to keep hold of.

A full audit of there assets would have to be done and then to get RSM shareholders and DMC shareholders to agree on the price.  Although this all depends on if DMC shareholders want to do this first then'll pass the ball over to RSM shareholders if they do.   

[k3t3r]

We could just buy ASIC's if we wanted with the assets funds or cherry pick the best (dividend bearing) stocks to keep hold of.

A full audit of there assets would have to be done and then to get RSM shareholders and DMC shareholders to agree on the price.  

mos defnly agree with these three points

[WITRcenter]

DMC currently holds

40 BTC-MINING (370 mhash) = 38.80 BTC (14800 mhash)
951 BTCMC (7 mhash) = 551.58 BTC (6657 mhash)
5113 OBSI.ABMO (11 mhash) = 434.61 BTC (56243 mhash)
2080 ASICMINER (30 mhash) = 228.17 BTC (62400 mhash)

have you evaluated these assets to assess what they might return RSM and whether the current market price is fair?

I just proposed the idea to DMC shareholders in there thread to see what they think rather than just liquidizing there assets as some want.  Of course it would have to pass an RSM motion if they agreed.  In the basic its just taking DMC assets rather then them liquidizing and selling them to RSM for RSM assets.  We could just buy ASIC's if we wanted with the assets funds or cherry pick the best (dividend bearing) stocks to keep hold of.

A full audit of there assets would have to be done and then to get RSM shareholders and DMC shareholders to agree on the price.  Although this all depends on if DMC shareholders want to do this first then'll pass the ball over to RSM shareholders if they do.   

Quite awesome. But some of the securities are good, some are bad choice. Buy a bunch of them is a bad choice. Matthew3 I think you should buy their assets separately with careful choice.

[matthewh3]

DMC currently holds

40 BTC-MINING (370 mhash) = 38.80 BTC (14800 mhash)
951 BTCMC (7 mhash) = 551.58 BTC (6657 mhash)
5113 OBSI.ABMO (11 mhash) = 434.61 BTC (56243 mhash)
2080 ASICMINER (30 mhash) = 228.17 BTC (62400 mhash)

have you evaluated these assets to assess what they might return RSM and whether the current market price is fair?

I just proposed the idea to DMC shareholders in there thread to see what they think rather than just liquidizing there assets as some want.  Of course it would have to pass an RSM motion if they agreed.  In the basic its just taking DMC assets rather then them liquidizing and selling them to RSM for RSM assets.  We could just buy ASIC's if we wanted with the assets funds or cherry pick the best (dividend bearing) stocks to keep hold of.

A full audit of there assets would have to be done and then to get RSM shareholders and DMC shareholders to agree on the price.  Although this all depends on if DMC shareholders want to do this first then'll pass the ball over to RSM shareholders if they do.   

Quite awesome. But some of the securities are good, some are bad choice. Buy a bunch of them is a bad choice. Matthew3 I think you should buy their assets separately with careful choice.

Yeah all the crap would just be sold on the market and the BTC raised used to buy into RSM.  Good assets could be kept if we can agree to a consensus on what to keep by giving DMC the appropriate value in RSM shares.