[ANN] [CLOAK] Cloakcoin | No Premine | X13 | Decentralized Market and PoSA

[mrrgnome]

I'm not the developer working on the PoSA side of things, so for those wondering, the other Dev is working on it, its in the testing phase now.

So I'm working on the OneMarket Interface right now and just realized that we need some community guidelines for this.

So I need the community to come together and come up with a general list of rules for what listings we decide are acceptable and which are not.  Ultimately, the reviewers will decide, but they would be wise to follow the guidelines since most the other reviewers would.

I'll put some sample guidelines, so people don't wonder why their listing was not accepted.

OneMarket does include Trustless Escrow, but this will not help for bigger purchases like cars, as putting down double money for the seller and buyer is impractical here.  Therefore, for bigger purchases someone will need to take up the charge for creating OneMarkets first Escrow Service to facilitate transactions for buyers and sellers.  Good business opportunity here for someone, whoever wants to start working on that website .

::Community Guidelines::

Items with a * are subject to interpretation by the reviewer and considered risky listings to attempt to get on the network and you will need to supply evidence to prove your claim that your listing is legal where you reside.

- No Violence (This is NEVER accepted)
- No Illegal Drugs* (Again, legal in certain locations, marijuana in Colorado, USA for example)
- No Prostitution* (Certain locations this is legal, Nevada, USA for example)
- No Illegal Weapons* (Buying certain types of firearms might be legal, Texas, USA for example)

This is what I could think off very shortly off the top of my head.  Please feel free to add to this.  I'll edit this thread with suggestions.

Two things, one is how does a user become a reviewer? If it's just any user with Cloak in their wallet what stops me from splitting my cloak up into a bunch of wallets and getting a bunch of votes? Another thing is that for those of us wishing to develop 3rd party addons for one market or sidechains or escrow systsems, it would be really helpful to know what you're planning in terms of an exposed wallet api or rpc commands.

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[eatenbyagrue]

Now I don't mean when a coin hits mintpal, but before.

So how do you buy coins before they hit exchanges?

[Cloak1]

Yea I fucked myself with this coin, i panic' sold way to earlier, then somebody told me it was going to .002 so i bought in again at the worst fucking time... now Im in the hole at least 2 BTC, when I should be up around 3-4 BTC on this coin......... FUCK MAN This is starting to make me nervous.............

I am no expert investor, but if you buy for a reason like "someone told me it was going to 0.002", you probably should rethink your investment strategies.  But anyway, 2 BTC is not a life changing loss.  It may go up from here, it may go down, but just try to learn a lesson.  I could tell you it's going back up to 0.0012, but I have no way of knowing this, so I won't say it.  I hope it does, but we will see.

Ya man I was emotional cuz it went double and I lost out on HUGE profits, then I was like its too late to buy in now, but I panic'd again and fucked myself....   Im sick of having these hard lessons costing me thousands of dollars though...  This is pretty much all I have    Everytime I'm about to make huge profits I end up breaking even or losing my ass......  I  was gonna sell out at 12 because I saw the decline, but I hesitated.  Lot of bad moves on my part, but I'm just hoping to break even at the moment.  I could have made so much money by now if I just did what I knew i was supposesd to... ugh... shitty ass lesson.

Hey man, I feel your pain. When I started out I had 4 btc and promptly lost 2. I didn't have much money so this was horrible. The key to the game is not to listen to anyone saying get in this, or get out of this. You must make decisions based off of sound reasoning. The ones who yell loudest are just the shepards wrangling the sheep to slaughter. Fear is no way to make a decision. If you believe in a coin, let your conviction be the guide. If you start to doubt a coin, rethink your strategy. If a coin is down, re-access the situation. If it's like cloak, then it's probably a lot of people cashing out who bought when it was .0002. All in all, I made the majority of my money by riding two huge trains. i caught both when they were cheap. Look out for the new coins and check out what they have to offer. Look at the coin specs. A lot of coins or a little. POS POW. Look at the devs and what they aim to accomplish. I have made and lost money chasing. I guarentee you though, if you buy in early and hold, you will have an easier time. Now I don't mean when a coin hits mintpal, but before. There are so many rackets that get run to bilk everyon out of money. The latest is now the fud game. Big angry words with false accusations. You want to make money? that's the time to buy. Buy when you ask yourself, why is this so cheap? As Buffet said "be fearful when others are greedy, greedy when others are fearful". The fud of cloak, I added 10 btc worth without trying. Shieldcoin? The fud netted me a shit load at insane prices. I may look foolish now, but check back in two months. Cloak will be banging that .0025 like a hooker on coke looking for .005 for some anal. This game isn't won on the quick swings. Consistency, evaluation and holding. I held drk for 4 months to net a sum of insanity. I would hold your dick in my butt cheeks for 5 years to net that same amount. Crypto is full of hot air and dudes who think they're hotshit on twitter. Simple thing is to not listen to them. They don't know shit. They don't have the artillery to keep a crypto down. They may pump it, but only because they ARE SELLING INTO PEOPLE WHO READ THEIR TWEETS. AGAIN, THEY BUY SOMETIME BEFORE, ACCUMULATING, FOR DAYS, THEN YELL PUMP!!!!!! EVERYONE RUSHES AND BUYS THEIR COINS. All in all, it's your money. Invest it wisely. If I told you to buy a dildo and stick it in your ear, you'd tell me to fuck off. That's exactly what you should be saying to anyone who anonymously tells you to buy or sell. Heck, you'd probably get more out of the dildo in the ear. Sorry for rambling.

"Be financially intelligent"-Robert Kiyosaki

[YackBallz]

Now I don't mean when a coin hits mintpal, but before.

So how do you buy coins before they hit exchanges?

He meant before it's on Mintpal - i.e. when it's on Bittrex only

[socket]

Two things, one is how does a user become a reviewer? If it's just any user with Cloak in their wallet what stops me from splitting my cloak up into a bunch of wallets and getting a bunch of votes? Another thing is that for those of us wishing to develop 3rd party addons for one market or sidechains or escrow systsems, it would be really helpful to know what you're planning in terms of an exposed wallet api or rpc commands.

See my post above..

I think it could easily be done with a formula of the wallets days destroyed, staking balance, and possibly activity in OneMarket (once there has been enough activity for it to be a valid matrix).

[darkproton]

Now I don't mean when a coin hits mintpal, but before.

So how do you buy coins before they hit exchanges?

He meant before it's on Mintpal - i.e. when it's on Bittrex only

^^This. Exchanges are now quick to add. I forgot this. It used to be, you'd trade off a spreadsheet or field open offers in here. Wasn't too long ago, but somethings do change quickly.

[Coolstoryteller]

Now I don't mean when a coin hits mintpal, but before.

So how do you buy coins before they hit exchanges?

He meant before it's on Mintpal - i.e. when it's on Bittrex only

^^This. Exchanges are now quick to add. I forgot this. It used to be, you'd trade off a spreadsheet or field open offers in here. Wasn't too long ago, but somethings do change quickly.

Speaking of exchanges - I think Cloak being on an exchange that accepts USD/EU/Pound would make it easier for investors looking to step into the market without having to buy BTC first. A completely anonymous decentralized currency might be what a lot of people are waiting for to step into the crypto scene if they haven't already.

Cloak is currently up for vote on https://hitbtc.com/ if you sign up your vote counts as 10 instead of one.

[x11joe]

I'm not the developer working on the PoSA side of things, so for those wondering, the other Dev is working on it, its in the testing phase now.

So I'm working on the OneMarket Interface right now and just realized that we need some community guidelines for this.

So I need the community to come together and come up with a general list of rules for what listings we decide are acceptable and which are not.  Ultimately, the reviewers will decide, but they would be wise to follow the guidelines since most the other reviewers would.

I'll put some sample guidelines, so people don't wonder why their listing was not accepted.

OneMarket does include Trustless Escrow, but this will not help for bigger purchases like cars, as putting down double money for the seller and buyer is impractical here.  Therefore, for bigger purchases someone will need to take up the charge for creating OneMarkets first Escrow Service to facilitate transactions for buyers and sellers.  Good business opportunity here for someone, whoever wants to start working on that website .

::Community Guidelines::

Items with a * are subject to interpretation by the reviewer and considered risky listings to attempt to get on the network and you will need to supply evidence to prove your claim that your listing is legal where you reside.

- No Violence (This is NEVER accepted)
- No Illegal Drugs* (Again, legal in certain locations, marijuana in Colorado, USA for example)
- No Prostitution* (Certain locations this is legal, Nevada, USA for example)
- No Illegal Weapons* (Buying certain types of firearms might be legal, Texas, USA for example)

This is what I could think off very shortly off the top of my head.  Please feel free to add to this.  I'll edit this thread with suggestions.

Maybe also a catchall that nothing illegal may be bought or sold.  The last thing you guys want is criminal charges that you helped set up another Silk Road, so the clearer you make it from the start that this is intended to not be that, the better.

But as long as we have your attention, I have some other suggestions.  I read the whitepaper, but it has been a while, so I aoplogize in advanced if any of this is addressed there.  Also I apologize if some of this is impossible due to the nature of anonymous wallets.  But just some ideas.

* do not overlook the value of ratings - buyers should be able to rate their sellers and probably vice versa.  I think this is the strongest assurance ebay buyers have.  To me, this is more valuable than the trustless escrow.  Trustless escrow is good, but the problem is if your run into a difficult person and you guys just can't agree, you both lose your escrow and you both end up losers, and I guess as a buyer it is some consolation knowing the seller lost money too, but it is still not a good situation

* there should be a history of how many successful transactions parties have

Also, I have some questions on the interface.  How will the listings be organized?  Will search work well?  With all of this being decentralized, will there be a lot of lag bringing up listings?

I thought about ratings, and there is some simple ratings involved, such as number of failed/successful transactions with trustless escrow.  The problem with ratings is they can so easily be manipulated.  People will just pay for an item to themselves to give themselves a good rating. What use will ratings be then?

I was thinking therefore of leaving the ratings up to the listees in their posts.  One could link to a third party trusted site that the community agrees upon in their listing post and people could view the ratings there.  If anyone has an idea for a p2p style rating system that can not be abused I'm open.  I could not think of anything on the initial concept for OneMarket.  The entire team is always open to ideas though.

[socket]

I thought about ratings, and there is some simple ratings involved, such as number of failed/successful transactions with trustless escrow.  The problem with ratings is they can so easily be manipulated.  People will just pay for an item to themselves to give themselves a good rating. What use will ratings be then?

I was thinking therefore of leaving the ratings up to the listees in their posts.  One could link to a third party trusted site that the community agrees upon in their listing post and people could view the ratings there.  If anyone has an idea for a p2p style rating system that can not be abused I'm open.  I could not think of anything on the initial concept for OneMarket.  The entire team is always open to ideas though.

Did you happen to see my suggestion about coming up with a formula that takes multiple factors into account?  I was thinking some combination of listing activity, staking balance, and the wallets days destroyed? This way you get a complete picture of how a lister is operating. It's easy to game a single matrix of activity.  But if you add in others it becomes harder to game.

[x11joe]

I thought about ratings, and there is some simple ratings involved, such as number of failed/successful transactions with trustless escrow.  The problem with ratings is they can so easily be manipulated.  People will just pay for an item to themselves to give themselves a good rating. What use will ratings be then?

I was thinking therefore of leaving the ratings up to the listees in their posts.  One could link to a third party trusted site that the community agrees upon in their listing post and people could view the ratings there.  If anyone has an idea for a p2p style rating system that can not be abused I'm open.  I could not think of anything on the initial concept for OneMarket.  The entire team is always open to ideas though.

Did you happen to see my suggestion about coming up with a formula that takes multiple factors into account?  I was thinking some combination of listing activity, staking balance, and the wallets days destroyed? This way you get a complete picture of how a lister is operating. It's easy to game a single matrix of activity.  But if you add in others it becomes harder to game.

Hi socket, yes I actually did think about this too.  I had very long discussions all night about the idea of weighted system with theDagger.  It got complicated rather quickly.  Just like you said, I thought of using weight based on how many previous transactions that have been completed and money involved and age, all those factors could still be abused via automated accounts which could automate the process of making aged and reputable accounts to sell to fraudsters.  Then their becomes a black-market selling highly rated accounts.

This is why I'm avoiding a rating system at the moment, even one based on weighted factors.  In order for this to truly work, it needs to be based on the money passing hands in a way that the seller and buyer can truly be verified to be separate individuals that don't know each other.  Which is tricky to prove.  I've got some ideas for this I might propose later, but this is a tricky problem indeed.

[newb4now]

I thought about ratings, and there is some simple ratings involved, such as number of failed/successful transactions with trustless escrow.  The problem with ratings is they can so easily be manipulated.  People will just pay for an item to themselves to give themselves a good rating. What use will ratings be then?

I was thinking therefore of leaving the ratings up to the listees in their posts.  One could link to a third party trusted site that the community agrees upon in their listing post and people could view the ratings there.  If anyone has an idea for a p2p style rating system that can not be abused I'm open.  I could not think of anything on the initial concept for OneMarket.  The entire team is always open to ideas though.

Did you happen to see my suggestion about coming up with a formula that takes multiple factors into account?  I was thinking some combination of listing activity, staking balance, and the wallets days destroyed? This way you get a complete picture of how a lister is operating. It's easy to game a single matrix of activity.  But if you add in others it becomes harder to game.

Hi socket, yes I actually did think about this too.  I had very long discussions all night about the idea of weighted system with theDagger.  It got complicated rather quickly.  Just like you said, I thought of using weight based on how many previous transactions that have been completed and money involved and age, all those factors could still be abused via automated accounts which could automate the process of making aged and reputable accounts to sell to fraudsters.  Then their becomes a black-market selling highly rated accounts.

This is why I'm avoiding a rating system at the moment, even one based on weighted factors.  In order for this to truly work, it needs to be based on the money passing hands in a way that the seller and buyer can truly be verified to be separate individuals that don't know each other.  Which is tricky to prove.  I've got some ideas for this I might propose later, but this is a tricky problem indeed.

Thank you for your hard work on OneMarket! I am glad you are taking time to carefully consider these important decisions that will ensure our success down the road!

[tubesteak]

Shit! I wish I had more btc to gobble up some of that cheap Cloak. Does anybody have any btc loan recommendations?

[Bobsurplus]

Shit! I wish I had more btc to gobble up some of that cheap Cloak. Does anybody have any btc loan recommendations?

As much as I love cloak and am holding a serious stack I would not recommend borrowing btc to buy cloak. Not because you may lose, I doubt you will, but because its not a good practice to borrow to gamble with.

[bicheng]

Oh, a lot of cheap CLOAK, nice 

[poppys]

Oh, a lot of cheap CLOAK, nice 

cheap cloak coins pouring down on me!

[tubesteak]

Shit! I wish I had more btc to gobble up some of that cheap Cloak. Does anybody have any btc loan recommendations?

As much as I love cloak and am holding a serious stack I would not recommend borrowing btc to buy cloak. Not because you may lose, I doubt you will, but because its not a good practice to borrow to gamble with.

Yeah, I thought about it and decided not to try to get a loan. But damn! these cheap Cloaks look mighty tasty. I might have to sell a couple of my r9 290's in order to get more Cloak. I just want to get more before the real lift off. Thanks for your response.

[eatenbyagrue]

I thought about ratings, and there is some simple ratings involved, such as number of failed/successful transactions with trustless escrow.  The problem with ratings is they can so easily be manipulated.  People will just pay for an item to themselves to give themselves a good rating. What use will ratings be then?

I was thinking therefore of leaving the ratings up to the listees in their posts.  One could link to a third party trusted site that the community agrees upon in their listing post and people could view the ratings there.  If anyone has an idea for a p2p style rating system that can not be abused I'm open.  I could not think of anything on the initial concept for OneMarket.  The entire team is always open to ideas though.

Did you happen to see my suggestion about coming up with a formula that takes multiple factors into account?  I was thinking some combination of listing activity, staking balance, and the wallets days destroyed? This way you get a complete picture of how a lister is operating. It's easy to game a single matrix of activity.  But if you add in others it becomes harder to game.

Hi socket, yes I actually did think about this too.  I had very long discussions all night about the idea of weighted system with theDagger.  It got complicated rather quickly.  Just like you said, I thought of using weight based on how many previous transactions that have been completed and money involved and age, all those factors could still be abused via automated accounts which could automate the process of making aged and reputable accounts to sell to fraudsters.  Then their becomes a black-market selling highly rated accounts.

This is why I'm avoiding a rating system at the moment, even one based on weighted factors.  In order for this to truly work, it needs to be based on the money passing hands in a way that the seller and buyer can truly be verified to be separate individuals that don't know each other.  Which is tricky to prove.  I've got some ideas for this I might propose later, but this is a tricky problem indeed.

I can see that, and it may be a good idea just to get a working trustless escrow model out, and it may be that OneMarket may find a niche for itself with the sales of items that lend themselves to Nash's game theory model.

[shfc]

a lot of cheap CLOAK,

[papagravel]

gonna get cheaper Im afraid

[c4shm3n]

Could we get some Proof about POSa ? maybe some videos like we saw last times?


thank you dev!