Solution to poverty - Socialism or Capitalism?

[DavidHume]

Capitalism is like a bandwagon pulled by mighty horses. The rich being the horses that pulls the country forward. Because to get rich, they need a market that has money to buy their products. So they have to create jobs and develop the country if they want to get richer and increase their market.

Brain makes all the decisions. That doesn't mean it should starve out other body parts needing to keep the host alive and ability to function as a living organism.

What US has been doing is staving out the bottom to feed the top. How long do you think that will last?

[Erdogan]

Socialism is a solution to poverty because everyone is poor, but nobody realizes it because everyone is the same.

Not possible. Proof: Those who manage the redistribution by force, are not going to be poor. Stalin had a gold shitter.

[TaunSew]

Socialism is a solution to poverty because everyone is poor, but nobody realizes it because everyone is the same.

Not possible. Proof: Those who manage the redistribution by force, are not going to be poor. Stalin had a gold shitter.

True.  Stalin and  the apparatchiks were relatively wealthy in what was an impoverished and hellish reality.

Though if you told a contemporary Russian millionaire, never mind a billionaire, that the apparatchiks were wealthy then they would laugh at you.  Stalin may have had a dacha with gold toilets but a Russian billionaire can have his own mega super yacht, A380 (biggest luxury plane), Caribbean islands, soccer teams, private armies and personal harems containing only the best looking super models.  

Even the lifestyle of a millionaire in Russia is arguably better than any privileged Communist had decades ago.

[ShakyhandsBTCer]

Socialism is a solution to poverty because everyone is poor, but nobody realizes it because everyone is the same.

If everyone is poor then everyone is worse off then they otherwise could be.

[freedomno1]

Socialism is a solution to poverty because everyone is poor, but nobody realizes it because everyone is the same.

If everyone is poor then everyone is worse off then they otherwise could be.

The true ideal would be for everyone to be rich enough to be satisfied
That way there would be no rich or poor but a competition based on skills and innovations to fill the time, simply put Maslows Hierarchy of Needs.

[bobos15]

The solution to poverty is technology. If you have free energy you don't need money or economic systems . But technology is suppressed.

[BitCoinNutJob]

The causes of poverty are manifold. War, disease, famine and unemployment being the big players. We can overcome this problem by doing following ideas:-
1. Employment generation
2. Drawing on various social institutions to fund poverty fighting programs e.g. charities, research institutions, U.N. , non-profit organizations, universities.
3. Transparency in government spending
4. Canceling impossible to repay world debts
5. Prioritizing programs that target fundamental human rights
6. Taxing the rich more and the poor less
7. Building self-sufficient economies
8. Education
9. Involvement of the media
10. Microfinancing

11. Using technology to help employers employ people to work from internet in a wide range of jobs.  Disabled/illness/Mental issues which prevent people who want to work from working.

[Nicolas Dorier]

Solution to poverty ?
Monetary policy.

Ideology are only natural consequences of monetary policies. So Socialism and Capitalism are not answers but consequences. (Socialism is a natural consequence of keynesian cures through government spending)

I believe that we'll get development when we incentives people to be responsible of their life.
This means removing all barriers that keep them from innovating.

Be it barrier to capital, legal barrier, knowledge barrier, fiscal barrier, border barrier, all barriers should be gone.
Then, the better of humanity will come out : Mass innovation for the benefit of the world -no one would not be able to set entry barriers-, incentived by the benefit the entrepreneur would reap.

This is what I intend to do with Open Business (https://github.com/NicolasDorier/Open-Business/blob/master/specification.mediawiki).
I am always thinking about how to create the right incentives.

[GangkisKhan]

The causes of poverty are manifold. War, disease, famine and unemployment being the big players. We can overcome this problem by doing following ideas:-
1. Employment generation
2. Drawing on various social institutions to fund poverty fighting programs e.g. charities, research institutions, U.N. , non-profit organizations, universities.
3. Transparency in government spending
4. Canceling impossible to repay world debts
5. Prioritizing programs that target fundamental human rights
6. Taxing the rich more and the poor less
7. Building self-sufficient economies
8. Education
9. Involvement of the media
10. Microfinancing

11. Using technology to help employers employ people to work from internet in a wide range of jobs.  Disabled/illness/Mental issues which prevent people who want to work from working.

We live in a limited resources world. The flexible organism usually rise to the top and the inflexible (those bound by rules and moral code) usually sink to the bottom of the food chain.

You want a utopia society? Then join the sheep. They are pretty content with their way of life before being slaughtered for their meat.

Capitalism is warfare on another level. Big fish eat small fish and shark trying to find ways to eat other shark. The top tend not to stay up there for longer than 2-3 generations.

[AZwarel]

Peer production economy.

I've just found this article, http://theumlaut.com/2014/04/09/how-uber-and-airbnb-resurrect-dead-capital/
VERY interesting points about how the market solution, and peer-to-peer economy (now allowed by the modern internet info based system we live in) will uplift billions of people,
and how regulation and central planning will fail, most likely with socialist "no property rights" ideas as well.

The socialist idea screams for injustice*, because capital goods are not equally shared among the people, and now we suddenly realize how much of our personal property
can be used as capital!

Of course, this will destroy the taxing coercive power of the state, or in effect those who run it by the name of "public good".

*

"The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries."

Winston Churchill

[pening]

The solution to poverty is technology. If you have free energy you don't need money or economic systems . But technology is suppressed.

This is such a simplistic and misguided view.  Firstly, technology isn't widely suppressed, there is more vested interest in those that can gain advantage from technology, than interest from those that seek to suppress it.  At best you can suppress for a short while before someone independently discovers, steals, or supercedes it.  I laugh when people say technology X is suppressed by the big bad company, because there are many nations with no interest in maintaining the status quo who would use it if it worked.  Typically, technology X is a great idea that doesn't scale in cost or application to be useful.

Secondly there's more to technology and advancement than energy.  Certainly it is significant and can impact some industries greatly.  But others it might be a tiny fraction.  There are massive capital costs in research, whose use mainly mental exertion and experimentation.  There are capital investments in land, equipment and resources, the materials needed to be extracted, processed, the plant to do that process, all have to be constructed. Then there's supply chain, the movement of the resources   and product.  And infrastructure move or utilise products. Then there's the meatware, the sustenance, protection and education of the people that make it all happen.  The energy bill, while significant as a proportion for some items at the start, fades to a tiny fraction of the value of the end product. 

Consider this:  energy is literally dirt cheap, we mostly dig up carbon and burn it.  Its that worthless.  What we do with it is far, far more valuable.

[Febo]

Government can end poverty under any system.

[BitcoinLlama]

no need for hierarchy.

[Erdogan]

Government can end poverty under any system.

Only government can create poverty.

[ShakyhandsBTCer]

Socialism is a solution to poverty because everyone is poor, but nobody realizes it because everyone is the same.

If everyone is poor then everyone is worse off then they otherwise could be.

The true ideal would be for everyone to be rich enough to be satisfied
That way there would be no rich or poor but a competition based on skills and innovations to fill the time, simply put Maslows Hierarchy of Needs.

This may be ideal, but there is no real way to achieve this (everyone to be rich enough to be satisfied).

People will always have varying levels of skill levels and work ethic. This would undervalue people who have high skill levels and work ethic while overvaluing people on the opposite side. Generally speaking in order to be satisfied most people would wish to have something above average.

[u9y42]

This may be ideal, but there is no real way to achieve this (everyone to be rich enough to be satisfied).

People will always have varying levels of skill levels and work ethic. This would undervalue people who have high skill levels and work ethic while overvaluing people on the opposite side. Generally speaking in order to be satisfied most people would wish to have something above average.

That seems to me to be more a question of education/values than anything else. Personally, I wouldn't care how much I made compared to others, provided I had enough to live and had a work I really liked; I don't think money is necessarily the best incentive.

[twiifm]

The causes of poverty are manifold. War, disease, famine and unemployment being the big players. We can overcome this problem by doing following ideas:-
1. Employment generation
2. Drawing on various social institutions to fund poverty fighting programs e.g. charities, research institutions, U.N. , non-profit organizations, universities.
3. Transparency in government spending
4. Canceling impossible to repay world debts
5. Prioritizing programs that target fundamental human rights
6. Taxing the rich more and the poor less
7. Building self-sufficient economies
8. Education
9. Involvement of the media
10. Microfinancing

I like your rational point of view.   The only question is how do we execute?  Through private enterprise or govt programs or both?

[ShakyhandsBTCer]

This may be ideal, but there is no real way to achieve this (everyone to be rich enough to be satisfied).

People will always have varying levels of skill levels and work ethic. This would undervalue people who have high skill levels and work ethic while overvaluing people on the opposite side. Generally speaking in order to be satisfied most people would wish to have something above average.

That seems to me to be more a question of education/values than anything else. Personally, I wouldn't care how much I made compared to others, provided I had enough to live and had a work I really liked; I don't think money is necessarily the best incentive.

It isn't that you don't make more then others. It is that in order to buy what makes you comfortable you would need to earn more then the average.

[u9y42]

This may be ideal, but there is no real way to achieve this (everyone to be rich enough to be satisfied).

People will always have varying levels of skill levels and work ethic. This would undervalue people who have high skill levels and work ethic while overvaluing people on the opposite side. Generally speaking in order to be satisfied most people would wish to have something above average.

That seems to me to be more a question of education/values than anything else. Personally, I wouldn't care how much I made compared to others, provided I had enough to live and had a work I really liked; I don't think money is necessarily the best incentive.

It isn't that you don't make more then others. It is that in order to buy what makes you comfortable you would need to earn more then the average.

But again, what makes you comfortable seems to me to be a function of education, or if you will, your values; not everyone is happy just by being able to buy luxuries.

[Mervyn_Pumpkinhead]

Solution to poverty = practical education.

When there are people who create wealth, then there is wealth. Wealth is what farmers farm, miners mine, engineers create and scientist invent. Socialism cultivates an collective society, where capitalism cultivates an individualistic society. The biggest drawback of most socialist countries is central planning and over regulated markets.
A country tends to be wealthy when those who create wealth are valued. I think that both tradition and cultural background are the biggest factors for poverty.