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Author Topic: The Real Story | What is considered manipulation?  (Read 2708 times)
pirateat40
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February 14, 2012, 11:44:39 PM
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To be perfectly honest, it's funny to watch the Speculation board after I run transactions on Mt. Gox.  Everyone thinks they know what happened and come up with these crazy ideas as to who is manipulating the market.  I guess that's why it's here.

The truth is, it's nothing more than trading.  We all try to get the best price for our USD/BTC trades.  Why it's called manipulation when I trade thousands at a time vs hundreds I don't know.  Maybe it's the fact that the market really isn't that big and feels like it's being "controlled" by these large transactions.  Should I not trade anymore? If you played with the same volume I do, you'd see that building a "wall" to add support allows you to pick up or sell more coins at a better price.  It's really that simple.

So tell me, is it REALLY manipulation?

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February 14, 2012, 11:46:33 PM
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42.

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February 14, 2012, 11:47:57 PM
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So tell me, is it REALLY manipulation?

When you do it telling me (and only me) in advance, yes.

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February 14, 2012, 11:50:53 PM
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To be perfectly honest, it's funny to watch the Speculation board after I run transactions on Mt. Gox.  Everyone thinks they know what happened and come up with these crazy ideas as to who is manipulating the market.  I guess that's why it's here.

The truth is, it's nothing more than trading.  We all try to get the best price for our USD/BTC trades.  Why it's called manipulation when I trade thousands at a time vs hundreds I don't know.  Maybe it's the fact that the market really isn't that big and feels like it's being "controlled" by these large transactions.  Should I not trade anymore? If you played with the same volume I do, you'd see that building a "wall" to add support allows you to pick up or sell more coins at a better price.  It's really that simple.

So tell me, is it REALLY manipulation?


It's called making a "profit".

It might be a new concept to the ones crying about a manipulator.

I guess it is easier to blame some mysterious "manipulator" when you lose in the market than to look inward and learn from your mistakes.
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February 15, 2012, 12:10:00 AM
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When the price is falling and someone puts in 50K bitcoin bidwall to stop the price from falling that is manipulation to me.

If they wanted to buy bitcoins why the 50K bidwall right bellow the falling price, why not let it fall further and buy bitcoins cheaper?

Its all manipulation.


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February 15, 2012, 12:13:42 AM
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When the price is falling and someone puts in 50K bitcoin bidwall to stop the price from falling that is manipulation to me.

If they wanted to buy bitcoins why the 50K bidwall right bellow the falling price, why not let it fall further and buy bitcoins cheaper?

Its all manipulation.



Price is falling and i need to sell coins... Why not?  Again, its called support.

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February 15, 2012, 12:21:42 AM
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To be perfectly honest, it's funny to watch the Speculation board after I run transactions on Mt. Gox.  Everyone thinks they know what happened and come up with these crazy ideas as to who is manipulating the market.  I guess that's why it's here.

The truth is, it's nothing more than trading.  We all try to get the best price for our USD/BTC trades.  Why it's called manipulation when I trade thousands at a time vs hundreds I don't know.  Maybe it's the fact that the market really isn't that big and feels like it's being "controlled" by these large transactions.  Should I not trade anymore? If you played with the same volume I do, you'd see that building a "wall" to add support allows you to pick up or sell more coins at a better price.  It's really that simple.

So tell me, is it REALLY manipulation?


One strategy is where a trader buys some shares then put a limit buy order for a lot more shares a little above the market price.  Let the algo wars begin.

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February 15, 2012, 12:38:40 AM
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ppl are mad because they try to go against the market, join the market and enjoy the ride
Slip, slide, have a good ride?

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February 15, 2012, 12:47:08 AM
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ppl are mad because they try to go against the market, join the market and enjoy the ride
Slip, slide, have a good ride?

+1 go with the flow, i really feel like an early adopter with the price offer we have  Smiley

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February 15, 2012, 04:51:54 AM
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When the price is falling and someone puts in 50K bitcoin bidwall to stop the price from falling that is manipulation to me.

If they wanted to buy bitcoins why the 50K bidwall right bellow the falling price, why not let it fall further and buy bitcoins cheaper?

Its all manipulation.



Price is falling and i need to sell coins... Why not?  Again, its called support.

So are you fabled 'the manipulator' or one of the big players that so clearly exists? Throwing up 10k - 20k - 30k btc walls for one purpose or another like those in the past few days during the drops?
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February 15, 2012, 10:10:54 AM
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If I sell thousands of BTC high and buy them back low am I considered a manipulator too?
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February 15, 2012, 10:50:21 AM
 #12

any trading action manipulates the price, by definition.

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February 15, 2012, 11:08:51 AM
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Manipulator = someone who trades far more than me, for larger amounts, in large transactions, moving the price against my position and not warning me in advance.

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February 15, 2012, 11:50:24 AM
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Manipulator = someone who trades far more than me, for larger amounts, in large transactions, moving the price against my position and not warning me in advance.

I'd say, Manipulator = someone who owns as many assets as > 20% of total market value. He don't have to catch the knife. He's not the market consumer as we are. He creates the market. He is the market.

Of course as long as the bigger guy comes.
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February 15, 2012, 11:55:24 AM
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I don't know about you guys but I like to buy high and sell low  Grin Grin

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February 15, 2012, 12:09:41 PM
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I don't know about you guys but I like to buy high and sell low  Grin Grin

I like to buy high and sell high, too bad I can only do it for 2 days after the Silk road package arrives Tongue

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February 15, 2012, 06:15:46 PM
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Quote
I like to buy high and sell low

To a certain extent, it's doing exactly this that gets you the experience you need to be a successful trader. Just don't keep doing it.

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February 15, 2012, 08:42:40 PM
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Feb15:   Venus square Pluto - passionate, jealous, manipulative  Wink


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February 15, 2012, 11:57:25 PM
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So tell me, is it REALLY manipulation?

Yeah I think manipulation is the wrong word to use here.

Market manipulation has more to do with what a person says on the boards or chat than it does with what they do with their coins.

Anyone who lies about their position, or encourages others to buy/sell deceitfully (e.g. It's the end of bitcoins!!! They're going to the moon!!) with the intention of misleading others into panic buying/selling for personal gain, is a manipulator.

Someone putting up a bidwall (either way) is, by action, an actor, and not a manipulator in the market. Even false walls can be bought out before they can be removed.

Someone sweeping the market left and right with massive buys or sells is no more a manipulator than anyone else with real money or coins on the market. They just have a hell of a lot more than others.

The truth is that when a person is speculating, they're only competing with other speculators for the same money/coin, so I don't know why anyone should think it was fair. This is what the free-ish market is all about...and probably why it's so regulated.
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February 15, 2012, 11:59:34 PM
 #20

pirateat is the manipulator, i knew it.
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