【Truth or FUD???】DarkCoin – The Next Big Thing, or Just Another Pump and Dump?

[stealth923]

TLDR: There is no other coin on the market that is even in the same league as DRK - why even bother trying fudsters - all questions have been closed off and answered

https://www.bitfinex.com/pages/announcements

Dear customers,

We are pleased to announce that Darkcoin will be available to trade on the Bitfinex platform starting at 6PM CET. It is rare for us to add new trading products, but we believe that the advent of privacy-centric cryptocurrencies warrants our attention. Specifically, we believe that Darkcoin and the team behind it represent the most credible foray into this important frontier, and now that Darkcoin's market capitalization has reached non-trivial levels, we have decided to offer it as a trading option to our customers. As one might expect, will support trading in DRK/BTC, but, in addition, we will the first exchange to support trading in DRK/USD.

While we have no crystal balls at Bitfinex, we do nonetheless believe that the new features that Darkcoin aims to implement represents a substantial development in the cryptocurrency space, and we believe that any innovation that enhances privacy deserves our attention. Naturally, we do not condone the use of Darkcoin for illicit purposes, but we do believe in the right to privacy.

Initially, we will only offer cash exchange transactions. In time, as our order book deepens and Darkcoin successfully navigates certain milestones, we will also possibly allow swap leverage and shorting, should Darkcoin's risk profile and volatility merit it.

Darkcoins can't also be used as collateral for margin transactions.

We hope that you that you find these new trading products to be of value to you and we, of course, always welcome your feedback.

Best regards,
The Bitfinex team

[jly77]

TLDR: There is no other coin on the market that is even in the same league as DRK - why even bother trying fudsters - all questions have been closed off and answered

https://www.bitfinex.com/pages/announcements

Dear customers,

We are pleased to announce that Darkcoin will be available to trade on the Bitfinex platform starting at 6PM CET. It is rare for us to add new trading products, but we believe that the advent of privacy-centric cryptocurrencies warrants our attention. Specifically, we believe that Darkcoin and the team behind it represent the most credible foray into this important frontier, and now that Darkcoin's market capitalization has reached non-trivial levels, we have decided to offer it as a trading option to our customers. As one might expect, will support trading in DRK/BTC, but, in addition, we will the first exchange to support trading in DRK/USD.

While we have no crystal balls at Bitfinex, we do nonetheless believe that the new features that Darkcoin aims to implement represents a substantial development in the cryptocurrency space, and we believe that any innovation that enhances privacy deserves our attention. Naturally, we do not condone the use of Darkcoin for illicit purposes, but we do believe in the right to privacy.

Initially, we will only offer cash exchange transactions. In time, as our order book deepens and Darkcoin successfully navigates certain milestones, we will also possibly allow swap leverage and shorting, should Darkcoin's risk profile and volatility merit it.

Darkcoins can't also be used as collateral for margin transactions.

We hope that you that you find these new trading products to be of value to you and we, of course, always welcome your feedback.

Best regards,
The Bitfinex team

I am really interested in how many DARKs you hold, hmmm....

[darkproton]

It doesn't explain why 50% of the coins are not held by Dev.

It doesn't explain why 250% of the coins are not held by Dev either

Premine = the dev creates a coin where a number of coins (from 0.0001% to 100% of the coins) goes straight to a certain address and is then used/distributed etc.

Instamine = fast mining (where many are mining). Example = PoW/PoS coins which the entire monetary based is instamined within a week. Now, just because something is mined fast doesn't mean the dev has 100% hashpower. Go to the Darkcoin thread and look at the miners and their WTS 10.000 DRK for 0.25 BTC.

First 15 hours, 1.75 million dark coin were mined.

Darkcoin is currently at 80,000 blocks, but there’s only 4.3m DRK out there. Five months later, the 1.75m generated during those first 4200 blocks still represents 40% of all DRK in existence.

 

[AlexGR]

Everywhere I get mixed reactions when I ask the same thing, some thinks its real some say it's scam but people who got in on it earlier, profited from it real well.

If they kept their coins (same with Bitcoin): Too many coins were sold as miners tend to sell and not keep. Let's just say there weren't many expecting Bitcoin to reach 1000$ when they were selling their BTCs for cents, neither were many expecting Darkcoin to reach 17$ when they were selling 100.000 DRKs for 2.5 BTC.

[battbot]

Everywhere I get mixed reactions when I ask the same thing, some thinks its real some say it's scam but people who got in on it earlier, profited from it real well.

If they kept their coins (same with Bitcoin): Too many coins were sold as miners tend to sell and not keep. Let's just say there weren't many expecting Bitcoin to reach 1000$ when they were selling their BTCs for cents, neither were many expecting Darkcoin to reach 17$ when they were selling 100.000 DRKs for 2.5 BTC.

As I am sure you are well aware AlexGR, that's an extremely weak argument to defend a massive instamine and unfair distribution.  It holds absolutely no water.  

[JamesBond009]

it seems somebody want to delete this post.....

 

[grue]

it seems somebody want to delete this post.....

 

it was deleted because you were replying to yourself, and because you were posting the same thing (essentially bumping the topic). other deletions were because you were posting it in other coin's threads.

[AlexGR]

Everywhere I get mixed reactions when I ask the same thing, some thinks its real some say it's scam but people who got in on it earlier, profited from it real well.

If they kept their coins (same with Bitcoin): Too many coins were sold as miners tend to sell and not keep. Let's just say there weren't many expecting Bitcoin to reach 1000$ when they were selling their BTCs for cents, neither were many expecting Darkcoin to reach 17$ when they were selling 100.000 DRKs for 2.5 BTC.

As I am sure you are well aware AlexGR, that's an extremely weak argument to defend a massive instamine and unfair distribution.  It holds absolutely no water.  

Fairness to who? Late miners? By this definition all instamined PoS/PoW are 10 times more unfair than DRK.

[Glizlack]

If darkcoin is a pump and dump its the longest pump and dump coin in crypto history. If you noticed most coins do this in the first week or two.  I also know a lot of people made a lot of money with this coin.

So the dev made money? Good at least he is still around working on the coin. Not many coins can say that 6 months in.  Please learn what a pump and dump is before you throw around terms you don;t understand.

Premine? Maybe maybe not. Pump and Dump no lol just no.

Steve

[jimhuang]

We need move on~
A lots of coin can make money .like BOST,CRY .....

[SkyValeey]

drk epic instamined... lol

[Jacques de Molay]

And to think these knobjockies think their shit doesn't stink and have every right to attack any other coin.  You coin is one massive scam and all the dark cheerleaders are doing is protecting their investment

Its funny they like to dish out the crap but cant take it when its in their face. They think everything is right and all kosher on the surface.  Fucking Delusion. The lot of them are.


Fancy 80% of the people on this forum have a cry at ANY PREMINE and think something as little as 2-5% premine is UNFAIR, yet these guys own 40% -

 Words cannot explain the stupidity from its fans defending this shit but they will try and try and sound smart with semantics and yet are FAILING BAD with every line. You cant defend this.


A fair launch should have meant  RE LAUNCH with everything working and bugs fixed.  Not "oops" and act like its all ok

[Ozziecoin]

I think gmaxwell is wrong on Darkcoin because the coinjoin model is centralised whereas Darkcoin has decentralised coinjoin. So, I can't see that it is pointless. His support for ring signatures is academic in the sense of "nice in theory but frankly not workable in real life". Those that have experience ring sigs know how buggy and alpha the software. Therefore, for those of us living in the real world - go the darkcoin.  Gmaxwell and his bitcoin devs should realise that the IRS has already mapped out all significant bitcoin addresses to social security numbers, whilst they talk debate the alpha tech of ring sigs but yet are doing NOTHING to fix. The bitcoin dev team are looking more pathetic to me everyday.

[JohnnyLightning]

I think that over time the opinions of the miners will reflect less in a coin's price than the opinion of investors and traders.  If the devs and the community keep the coin innovative, the original distribution methods will matter less and less in the future.

[DubFX]

Everywhere I get mixed reactions when I ask the same thing, some thinks its real some say it's scam but people who got in on it earlier, profited from it real well.

Early adpotrers of pump and dump benefit too that's the point...but after that instamine calculation and no credits for darksend it seems like a scam to me.

[JamesBond009]

I think gmaxwell is wrong on Darkcoin because the coinjoin model is centralised whereas Darkcoin has decentralised coinjoin. So, I can't see that it is pointless. His support for ring signatures is academic in the sense of "nice in theory but frankly not workable in real life". Those that have experience ring sigs know how buggy and alpha the software. Therefore, for those of us living in the real world - go the darkcoin.  Gmaxwell and his bitcoin devs should realise that the IRS has already mapped out all significant bitcoin addresses to social security numbers, whilst they talk debate the alpha tech of ring sigs but yet are doing NOTHING to fix. The bitcoin dev team are looking more pathetic to me everyday.

so something wrong with bitcoin core dev?

gmaxwell  implies that darkcoin can not achieve totally Anon features through coinjoin technology???

 

extremely interesting thread...what struck my eye was the slow validations which can cause a major clog with transactions when Dark Coin (based off of CoinJoin) gets bigger, right? The more coins transacted the slower the confirmations am I right in saying that?

No, not in a meaningful sense. Validation is very cheap. You do run into block size limits if you're trying to transact too much at once, but any privacy system is limited in its privacy by transaction volume.

"Dark Coin" really strikes me as pointless. The whole idea in coinjoin is that coinjoin is already part of the design of Bitcoin. There is no advantage in having a new and different system. If you're going to do something incompatible, losing Bitcoin's network effect in the process, then you can do something much stronger.

It also depresses me somewhat to see people talking about darkcoin (or even zerocoin/zerocash) when bytecoin has a privacy system with much better properties than CoinJoin (it's similar to CJ except you safely join with offline coin holders, and all users are participants), something made possible by the fact that it doesn't have to fit within the existing Bitcoin network, and it's completely practical, reasonably performant and deployed for some time now. But strangely, it's virtually unheard of...  Bytecoin's privacy properties are in some sense weaker than zerocoin's— since its like a supercharged coinjoin— but the cryptography is much stronger and much more efficient, so in practice I'd expect it to have better anonymity just due to it being much more practical (also as evidence to it existing as a deployed system).  ... so yea, if you actually are interested in privacy technology in a non-bitcoin system, Bytecoin seems to have pretty much nailed it.

[Ozziecoin]

Gmaxwell supporting ring sigs is a joke. The software is totally alpha and unworkable. Gmaxwell did not say that coinjoin cannot achieve anonymity. He said he believes the coinjoin implementation in Darkcoin is pointless because coinjoin already exists for bitcoin. He is not about to bad mouth coinjoin because he invented it.

However, what he failed to acknowledge was that coinjoin in bitcoin is centralised and subject to gov't co-opting it. Like truecrypt. Therefore, decentralised coinjoin in Darkcoin is NOT pointless. It is damn good anonymity, originally conceived by gmaxwell but made into a decentralised system that is many times better and stronger in Darkcoin.  I think non-english speakers are struggling to pick up the nuances of what Gmaxwell is saying.

[MrWHALE]

I think gmaxwell is wrong on Darkcoin because the coinjoin model is centralised whereas Darkcoin has decentralised coinjoin. So, I can't see that it is pointless. His support for ring signatures is academic in the sense of "nice in theory but frankly not workable in real life". Those that have experience ring sigs know how buggy and alpha the software. Therefore, for those of us living in the real world - go the darkcoin.  Gmaxwell and his bitcoin devs should realise that the IRS has already mapped out all significant bitcoin addresses to social security numbers, whilst they talk debate the alpha tech of ring sigs but yet are doing NOTHING to fix. The bitcoin dev team are looking more pathetic to me everyday.

so something wrong with bitcoin core dev?

gmaxwell  implies that darkcoin can not achieve totally Anon features through coinjoin technology???

 

extremely interesting thread...what struck my eye was the slow validations which can cause a major clog with transactions when Dark Coin (based off of CoinJoin) gets bigger, right? The more coins transacted the slower the confirmations am I right in saying that?

No, not in a meaningful sense. Validation is very cheap. You do run into block size limits if you're trying to transact too much at once, but any privacy system is limited in its privacy by transaction volume.

"Dark Coin" really strikes me as pointless. The whole idea in coinjoin is that coinjoin is already part of the design of Bitcoin. There is no advantage in having a new and different system. If you're going to do something incompatible, losing Bitcoin's network effect in the process, then you can do something much stronger.

It also depresses me somewhat to see people talking about darkcoin (or even zerocoin/zerocash) when bytecoin has a privacy system with much better properties than CoinJoin (it's similar to CJ except you safely join with offline coin holders, and all users are participants), something made possible by the fact that it doesn't have to fit within the existing Bitcoin network, and it's completely practical, reasonably performant and deployed for some time now. But strangely, it's virtually unheard of...  Bytecoin's privacy properties are in some sense weaker than zerocoin's— since its like a supercharged coinjoin— but the cryptography is much stronger and much more efficient, so in practice I'd expect it to have better anonymity just due to it being much more practical (also as evidence to it existing as a deployed system).  ... so yea, if you actually are interested in privacy technology in a non-bitcoin system, Bytecoin seems to have pretty much nailed it.

"Why CoinJoin, as Used in DarkCoin,does NOT bring Full Anonymity"

http://www.scribd.com/doc/227369807/Bitcoin-Coinjoin-Not-Anonymous-v01

Darksend isn't finished yet and was never promised to be 100% anonymous unless you use great care.

From Evan (of DRK) himself: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg7060893#msg7060893
So with DRK, we have an UNFINISHED product that will NEVER be 100% anonymous.  #FAIL

[Ozziecoin]

The above will be fixed in RC4, when full source codes are released by the Darkcoin team. You cannot hold me to that timetable as the Darkcoin dev team made those representations and they can change at anytime. But, I'm going by what they say as they have been good with their word to date.

[gmaxwell]

Ozziecoin, Your pump and dump dance would probably be more effective if you were less transparently dishonest in your approach.  I'm normally happy to ignore the nonsense in the altcoin subform, but since you saw fit to go distrupt the coinjoin thread with some offtopic insult hurling I thought I'd bring the extensive response back here where its topical.

CoinJoin is trustless— which is orthogonal with centralized or decentralized, it could be implemented several ways (though trustlessness is usually a prerequisite to a decenteralized implementation). Post 5 in the CoinJoin thread writes in depth about implementing it in a decenteralized way, none of which appears to have been implemented by the darkcoin developers as far as I can tell— from what I've heard it seems that they're not even able to understand it. (This is a disappointment to me, since I was trying to describe these ideas clearly so others could understand them.)

More amusingly, what DarkCoin does is highly centralized because the software is closed— you can't get more centralized than closed source. What the actual behavior is, is anyone's guess— it's impossible to review due to it being closed— though "masternodes" does not sound like something decenteralized, it sounds like something that creates a small chokepoint which could be used to deanonymize its users, like a server based CoinJoin but worse since you have to hold a huge pile of coins to run a server.

As I've said before CoinJoin is interesting because it's inherently part of Bitcoin already— it just needed better tools (and now there are some, e.g. darkwallet) to make it available to people.  It's a privacy improvement over not having it, but it isn't perfect, but it also didn't require any changes to Bitcoin (much less a whole altcoin) to deploy it.  In an incompatible system much better is possible as is proposed by ZeroCash and much better is actually _realized_ by Bytecoin (and its forks... Monero, Fantomcoin, etc.), the later are actually working (if immature, due reinventing many wheels) implementations of much stronger privacy, decenteralized in their implementation, all released under a good open source license.

From what I can tell the only purpose DarkCoin serves is to depress me about the state of humanity.