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[Neo.op]

Now putting things into perspective here:
15% for devs --> Agreed! for their hard work
75% as an initial distribution to get people involved + develop the coin further --> Agreed! need to further the coin
10% as development fund ---> Why is this required??? This seems unnecessary. If development team is already being paid as 15% of the coin and 75% of the distribution money.

Thanks for your suggestion, we are discussing this matter and will consider what you said as well.


Please note that received funds will not go straight to the developers - they will be placed in a publicly viewable wallet, and will be controlled by Crypti foundation, which will also include members of the community.

We will post a separate foundation document towards the pre-sale start.

Ok that clears the 75% being invested. And frankly, the whole foundation thing is what it should be.

Even in that case where will the 10% of "development fund" be held? With the foundation? If yes doesn't that amount to 85% of the coin effectively belongs to the foundation?

Frankly I was interested in the coin but the whole 10% dev fund; which I read as 25% pre-mine for developers has put me off. Yeah given the amount of muppets we have on BTT, you might not have to worry about it but I am outta here.

[robinf]

Nice on releasing the whitepaper, will take a read on it today.

[GreXX]

Thanks to the replies regarding my questions on the previous page. Will continue to follow. Also, having someone review the code who could vouch for its integrity would be a huge boost to the project - do try to make that happen.

Would you summarize the main goal of the project as the creation of a decentralized ebay of sorts? Do you see the project mainly focusing on a decentralized market place of goods? Or is there also a desire to move to a decentralized exchange of financial assets as well?

Thanks for your time,

In our internal discussions about future stretch goals for Crypti, we have discussed who we believe the main competition is for Crypti and where we think we have room to push the envelope. I think ultimately we can offer alternatives to sites like Ebay, Etsy, even things like Elance, oDesk, Envato, or Clickbank (yes, we want to build an affiliate system post-launch) type systems that charge authors fairly ridiculous fees. We would envision a system where you could sell goods, services, etc, without limits of traditional systems. I personally would prefer to avoid drugs, assassinations, and illegal activity like Silk Road at all costs, we want this to be a legitimate business venture over the long term. The key is that, all of these types of services we are discussing can be built incorporating the Crypti SDK to have all kinds of functionality. We haven't even dreamed up all of the possibilities yet.

This will be a long and exciting road for anyone who gets on board and we are looking for great ideas. The goal of the foundation post launch is to focus on some of the great ideas we have already thought of, but also to bring in community members and really listen to every single person out there supporting the coin, so that all of us, together, can build something truly new and exceptional.

[Edit for grammar issues]

[GreXX]

Now putting things into perspective here:
15% for devs --> Agreed! for their hard work
75% as an initial distribution to get people involved + develop the coin further --> Agreed! need to further the coin
10% as development fund ---> Why is this required??? This seems unnecessary. If development team is already being paid as 15% of the coin and 75% of the distribution money.

Thanks for your suggestion, we are discussing this matter and will consider what you said as well.


Please note that received funds will not go straight to the developers - they will be placed in a publicly viewable wallet, and will be controlled by Crypti foundation, which will also include members of the community.

We will post a separate foundation document towards the pre-sale start.

Ok that clears the 75% being invested. And frankly, the whole foundation thing is what it should be.

Even in that case where will the 10% of "development fund" be held? With the foundation? If yes doesn't that amount to 85% of the coin effectively belongs to the foundation?

Frankly I was interested in the coin but the whole 10% dev fund; which I read as 25% pre-mine for developers has put me off. Yeah given the amount of muppets we have on BTT, you might not have to worry about it but I am outta here.

Neo.op

You have legitimate concerns that others are voicing as well and I want to try and address all of them.

The Foundation

The Foundation will maintain 2 wallets after the pre-sale. One wallet will contain the BTC earned in the pre-sale of the coin. The other wallet will be a Crypti wallet that will contain the 10% (10,000,000) Crypti that will be taken from the genesis block. The Foundation proposal isn't out yet because we haven't finished, but as it stands right now, we plan to have a board consisting of any members of the Crypti development team who want to join, along with an even or greater number of members of the community. The plan is to require a majority or unanimous vote on all development proposals prior to sending any money out of the wallet and the vote will determine what projects will be taken on with those funds. Our goal is to make it as transparent as possible and we are open to any and all suggestions as we develop the tenants and core of how the foundation will work.

The Pre-Sale Funds

As per why 10% Genesis + the Pre-Sale funds, which I think is the brunt of most peoples aversion so far.

When we discussed the launch internally, we initially tried to budget the next 2-3 years of development based on the pre-sale earnings alone. We sat down and tried to come up with a number for how much we thought would be raised in the pre-sale and factor that into how much development would most likely cost. There are several recent launches to use to do a comparative analysis and somewhat gauge what this figure might be.

We have seen launches bring in anywhere from 23 BTC - 143 BTC for "PoS" type coins.

If we look at these numbers based on the BTC -> USD value on Coinbase as of today (roughly $606), that equates to anywhere from about $14,000 USD - $87,000 USD. To many, this might seem like a fortune, but to a business trying to get off of the ground with no future ability to make money (we aren't maintaining any rights or ability to sell our product later), this is a very small sum of money. Let's try to put this amount in perspective.

I personally have worked almost full time on this project for 2 months. I am 1 of 9 developers on this project just to get it to launch. Let's say I only worked part time for perspective, which would be 20 hours per week for the last 2 months. Based on my current salary from my day job in the United States, that would be $7,000 / Month for full time, so divide by 2, so $3500 / month x 2 months of work so $7,000. That is for 2 months of development for 1 person on a 9 man team. When you take into account 9 people, and say you pay all 9 of us, half of what my normal salary would be, so let's say they each get $3500 every 2 months, that is still $3500 x 9 people = $31,500 for 2 months of funding the team based on traditional salaries in my country. In this case, 12 months of development (which will only touch the surface of where Crypti can go) would be $3500 x 9 people, x 6 (2 month periods) = $189,000. That is just for 1 year.

Now let's assume everyone is doing this on the side and doesn't need the money for their kids to eat and so we can pay them a lot less. Even at 1/3 of the numbers we used above ($600 or 1 BTC / Month per developer), we would still almost run out of money after 1 year of development. The Crypti Foundation isn't being built to last 1 year. It is being built to develop for 5, 10, even 15 years if possible to do so. We don't want this ride to end anytime soon. So from that perspective, the pre-sale BTC was not going to be enough for long term development.

The 10,000,000 Crypti

Once we realized that we didn't think the pre-sale funding would be enough to sustain the Foundation long-term, we decided we needed to find another way to help fund development. We decided that holding on to  some of the currency would provide a double purpose. It would provide long term funding for Crypti and it would also encourage us to continue to grow and increase the valuation of the coin to keep our operating funds relevant.

To put this number in perspective, let's look at the fact that we have no idea of what the initial valuation of the currency would be. The best case scenario is for us to match the value of NXT over the next 4-6 months (which wouldn't be easy) and hold a value of $0.05-$0.06 / Crypti. While I think this is a best case scenario, were this to happen, the Foundation would be holding on to $500,000-$600,000 worth of Crypti. This is an outrageous amount when you look at the dollar signs, but for a 10 year development cycle, it really isn't that outrageous. But, again, that is best case scenario. Let's say that Crypti holds a more realistic valuation equivalent to something like MaidSafeCoin and ends up being about $0.01 / Crypti in 6 months. At that point, if the team were to sell the entire stake (which would never win a majority vote, I can guarantee), it would put the total earnings at around $100,000 USD. That would potentially hire developers from overseas for several major projects and if we can find a way to monetize one or 2 of the projects to help raise funds for the foundation, we would be able to function on more long-term scale.

The bottom line is, when you break the numbers down, in an average to moderately optimistic scenario, the Foundation comes out with 250 BTC (a great goal we would love) or $151,000 USD for development, and can hold the Crypti for the long term to turn it into a 10 year operating budget.

PLEASE PAY ATTENTION TO THIS PART

These are just my thoughts from my head and not necessarily the voice of the entire development team. That being said, I am the one developing the working documents for the Foundation and some of the other aspects so they are close to where it stands right now.

This is the important part.

NONE of this is set in stone. Until we start taking money and issuing percentages to investors, it can all be adapted.

PLEASE, share your thoughts and ideas and converse with us on how we can better structure these goals and amounts to both secure the long term success of Crypti, but also ensure investors are happy with the distribution, because, lets face it, without investors we have nothing.

Hopefully you managed to stick with me and read all of this. I wanted everyone to have a better understanding of our thinking and kind of how we developed these numbers that we presented in the announcement. IF you think there is a better distribution model or better way to work this out, PLEASE share it. I promise we are all ears and want to know.

Thanks for sticking around and thanks for reading my rambling! :-)

I look forward to hearing your thoughts!

[Zilean]

no windows client?

[$dakini]

Now let's assume everyone is doing this on the side and doesn't need the money for their kids to eat and so we can pay them a lot less. Even at 1/3 of the numbers we used above ($600 or 1 BTC / Month per developer), we would still almost run out of money after 1 year of development. The Crypti Foundation isn't being built to last 1 year. It is being built to develop for 5, 10, even 15 years if possible to do so. We don't want this ride to end anytime soon. So from that perspective, the pre-sale BTC was not going to be enough for long term development.

First time I am seeing an IPO where money is raised for the next 15 years development  
So what happens after 15-20 years , when the 25% premine money finally dries out?

Bitcoin was a new technology and it didnt have a 25% premine when it started.
Its development and market adoption still continues...  

[PondSea]

The problem I can forsee is that a month in crypto is a life time, not to mention a year. You budgeting for 10 years is crazy.

I guess the IPO will be very telling if I am wrong or not but having 15%, plus ipo funds then another 10% is double dipping.

Considering we have nothing at the moment that is a lot to ask.

[sponsor]

no windows client?

web wallet

[GreXX]

Now let's assume everyone is doing this on the side and doesn't need the money for their kids to eat and so we can pay them a lot less. Even at 1/3 of the numbers we used above ($600 or 1 BTC / Month per developer), we would still almost run out of money after 1 year of development. The Crypti Foundation isn't being built to last 1 year. It is being built to develop for 5, 10, even 15 years if possible to do so. We don't want this ride to end anytime soon. So from that perspective, the pre-sale BTC was not going to be enough for long term development.

First time I am seeing an IPO where money is raised for the next 15 years development  
So what happens after 15-20 years , when the 25% premine money finally dries out?

Bitcoin was a new technology and it didnt have a 25% premine when it started.
Its development and market adoption still continues...  

As per my 15 year plan, I can't help it if everyone else you know has no ambition!

I am not going to argue about the antagonistic pre-mine comments. We welcome all positive input and will seriously consider any recommendations on a better way.

Just for reference, according to what I have been reading based on research, Satoshi kept something like 980,000 BTC from his initial mining and he didn't even offer to develop anything afterwards. So we are offering a much better deal! ;-)

[GreXX]

The problem I can forsee is that a month in crypto is a life time, not to mention a year. You budgeting for 10 years is crazy.

I guess the IPO will be very telling if I am wrong or not but having 15%, plus ipo funds then another 10% is double dipping.

Considering we have nothing at the moment that is a lot to ask.

Based on the numbers we are quoting, we will probably only realistically be able to sustain 2-3 years of development.

We aren't budgeting for 10 years, we are budgeting to give everyone the best chance of making Crypti successful.

As per your note about having nothing. No funds will be accepted until the beta is finished. The Pre-sale will start when the beta is available and we can show you what Crypti is and that it works.

[Coinr88]

How much will cost to get in ?

[Smithyj89]

How much will cost to get in ?

As much as you want to buy.

[Neo.op]

The Pre-Sale Funds

As per why 10% Genesis + the Pre-Sale funds, which I think is the brunt of most peoples aversion so far.

When we discussed the launch internally, we initially tried to budget the next 2-3 years of development based on the pre-sale earnings alone. We sat down and tried to come up with a number for how much we thought would be raised in the pre-sale and factor that into how much development would most likely cost. There are several recent launches to use to do a comparative analysis and somewhat gauge what this figure might be.

We have seen launches bring in anywhere from 23 BTC - 143 BTC for "PoS" type coins.

If we look at these numbers based on the BTC -> USD value on Coinbase as of today (roughly $606), that equates to anywhere from about $14,000 USD - $87,000 USD. To many, this might seem like a fortune, but to a business trying to get off of the ground with no future ability to make money (we aren't maintaining any rights or ability to sell our product later), this is a very small sum of money. Let's try to put this amount in perspective.

I personally have worked almost full time on this project for 2 months. I am 1 of 9 developers on this project just to get it to launch. Let's say I only worked part time for perspective, which would be 20 hours per week for the last 2 months. Based on my current salary from my day job in the United States, that would be $7,000 / Month for full time, so divide by 2, so $3500 / month x 2 months of work so $7,000. That is for 2 months of development for 1 person on a 9 man team. When you take into account 9 people, and say you pay all 9 of us, half of what my normal salary would be, so let's say they each get $3500 every 2 months, that is still $3500 x 9 people = $31,500 for 2 months of funding the team based on traditional salaries in my country. In this case, 12 months of development (which will only touch the surface of where Crypti can go) would be $3500 x 9 people, x 6 (2 month periods) = $189,000. That is just for 1 year.

Now let's assume everyone is doing this on the side and doesn't need the money for their kids to eat and so we can pay them a lot less. Even at 1/3 of the numbers we used above ($600 or 1 BTC / Month per developer), we would still almost run out of money after 1 year of development. The Crypti Foundation isn't being built to last 1 year. It is being built to develop for 5, 10, even 15 years if possible to do so. We don't want this ride to end anytime soon. So from that perspective, the pre-sale BTC was not going to be enough for long term development.

The 10,000,000 Crypti

Once we realized that we didn't think the pre-sale funding would be enough to sustain the Foundation long-term, we decided we needed to find another way to help fund development. We decided that holding on to  some of the currency would provide a double purpose. It would provide long term funding for Crypti and it would also encourage us to continue to grow and increase the valuation of the coin to keep our operating funds relevant.

To put this number in perspective, let's look at the fact that we have no idea of what the initial valuation of the currency would be. The best case scenario is for us to match the value of NXT over the next 4-6 months (which wouldn't be easy) and hold a value of $0.05-$0.06 / Crypti. While I think this is a best case scenario, were this to happen, the Foundation would be holding on to $500,000-$600,000 worth of Crypti. This is an outrageous amount when you look at the dollar signs, but for a 10 year development cycle, it really isn't that outrageous. But, again, that is best case scenario. Let's say that Crypti holds a more realistic valuation equivalent to something like MaidSafeCoin and ends up being about $0.01 / Crypti in 6 months. At that point, if the team were to sell the entire stake (which would never win a majority vote, I can guarantee), it would put the total earnings at around $100,000 USD. That would potentially hire developers from overseas for several major projects and if we can find a way to monetize one or 2 of the projects to help raise funds for the foundation, we would be able to function on more long-term scale.

The bottom line is, when you break the numbers down, in an average to moderately optimistic scenario, the Foundation comes out with 250 BTC (a great goal we would love) or $151,000 USD for development, and can hold the Crypti for the long term to turn it into a 10 year operating budget.

Grexx lets do some number crunching. 23-143 BTC for a launch means..
7,500,000 = 23 BTC ---> 1crytpi = 0.00000307 BTC ~ 0.002 dollar
7,500,000 = 143 BTC ---> 1 crypti = 0.00001907BTC ~ 0.011 dollar

Considering the higher limit, you would be already touching the 0.01 Maidsafe mark. So are you saying you will be constrained even to keep the same level after a 6 mths period?
Secondly, of the 15% coins you guys are pre-mining you already will be worth 15k USD + 87k USD from the sale ~ 102k in the kitty for development. So remind me once more why you guys need the extra 10%?

Edited for calculation mistake

[jztxeno]

any maximum investment set? Would be nice.

[Smithyj89]

any maximum investment set? Would be nice.

Agreed, i think having many investors as apposed to a few big ones would be beneficial to the community and future of the coin.

[a447513372]

i want to invest in  and pay 0.025BTC ,how to join

[crypti]

i want to invest in  and pay 0.025BTC ,how to join

IPO will start 30 June.
If you want to get notify in IPO start day, provide your email here - http://crypti.me

We will notify you.

[eli_lyd1]

i want to invest in  and pay 0.025BTC ,how to join

IPO will start 30 June.
If you want to get notify in IPO start day, provide your email here - http://crypti.me

We will notify you.

I think 85% for ipo will be better.

[shadowduck]

For me, the biggest obstacle keeping me away from the presale is, that I don't know the percentage of total coins I will get when I buy with 1btc.

From the relative amount way you guys tell, I will get 1/total_btc_of_presale * 75%
but, when I spend the 1btc, I can never know the total_btc_of_presale unless I buy at the deadline.

So another problem comes, you guys can buy 10000btc at the deadline, and so every btc we ordinary buyer will decreased to 1/(total_btc_of_presale+10000) * 75%, and you hold 10000/(total_btc_of_presale+10000) * 75% in the shadow. And then..... all the 10000btc you spend can easily go back to your own pocket. Thus, you got more percentage than you claimed without any cost.

The rule I expect is:
----------------------
1. deadline is fixed.
2. price is fixed in each stage.
    Here I assume to encourage early adoption, buying in early stage will get a lower price.
    To be easy, 1M coins can be treated as a batch. So every buyer must buy 1M *n coins, where n is a integer.
3. When coins are sold out OR deadline reached, presale is finished.
4. For the scenario that when deadline reached, there are still some coins left unsold, they should be distributed proportionally to every buyer.

[SyRenity]

----------------------
1. deadline is fixed.
2. price is fixed in each stage.
    Here assume to encourage early adoption, buy in early stage will get a lower price.
    To be easy, 1M coins as a batch. every buyer must buy 1M *n coins, where n is a integer.
3. When coins are sold out OR deadline reached, presale is finished.
4. For the scenario that when deadline reached, there are still some coins left unsold, then they will be distributed evenly to every buyer.

1) The pre-sale end date is July 30th, 4 weeks after the start.
2) Price is fixed indeed, there is a linearly decreasing bonus to motivate early buyers.
3) and 4) Crypti's will be divided among all the buyers at the pre-sale end.

To help buyers see how much Crypti they will hold, there will be a public anonymous ledger, showing Crypti addresses and their holdings.