ANN: BITMAIN has Tested Its 28nm Bitcoin Mining Chip BM1382

[dulac97]

Shit, they've put the S3 up already....


















Just kidding....

My heart skipped a beat.

Any idea of overclock potential of S3?

[dropt]

Aluminum heatsinks are cheaper than you think. Probably about $5 worth of metal.

Find me those heatsinks for $5 with a MOQ of 2.

All those savings you listed are probably less than $50 and $25 to ship.

So you're just talking out of your ass then?  May I take a moment to repeat what I said...

Why does the actual cost of the saved components have to actually be $300?  They're valued at whatever BITMAIN decides to value them at and the rest of us just have to deal.

What exactly will you be doing with the old boards? Will you be throwing them away? That's ~$150 down the drain.

Sell them for 25$ and let someone else worry about it.  Hell, if I'm so inclined maybe I'll have some of their control boards made up and sell those too.

[hobbymd]

So if the S1 Upgrade path cost $200

How can that possibly be? Where are the $300 worth of parts you would be saving?

Arbitrary numbers I pulled out of my ass to make a point.  But, what does it matter?  Why does the actual cost of the saved components have to actually be $300?  They're valued at whatever BITMAIN decides to value them at and the rest of us just have to deal. Aluminum heatsinks aren't cheap, nor is shipping a huge chunk of metal across the globe in 2-3 days.

Edit: Aside from that you (BITMAIN) save on the fan + grill, antenna lead, control board, ribbon cables, end brackets, assembly labour, packaging material, hardware, HSC, etc.

I'm glad somebody pointed these out. The upgrade path for s1 to s3 is actually quite viable if BITMAIN factors in the money they save by not shipping all those parts around the world in their pricing of " upgrade kits for s1 to 3" .

Shipping alone would save them good chunk of money instead of shipping whole unit, they need to just send hashing boards and probably controller boards for it. Maybe even this way, there is less chance of getting any kind of damage during shipping since it weigh less  also theoretically the  tax should be less since it just parts rather a whole unit 

 overall a lot of possibilities for s1 to s3  if again BITMAIN price it right, otherwise as other have mentioned just selling it somewhere would be most logical path

[skizzneena]

Can we just rename this whole thread "S3 ROI FUD"

[taipo]

This thread is preventing an unintended denial of service attack on the bitmaintech site. Without it, hoards of hungry miners would sit there all day reloading their main page, and the servers would croak under the strain.

[jimmothy]

Aluminum heatsinks are cheaper than you think. Probably about $5 worth of metal.

Find me those heatsinks for $5 with a MOQ of 2.

Why? Bitmain buys heatsinks by the thousands.

All those savings you listed are probably less than $50 and $25 to ship.

So you're just talking out of your ass then?  May I take a moment to repeat what I said...

You are imagining that there will be ~$300 in savings which simply cannot be the case. There cannot even be half that amount considering bitmain sold complete S1s for $200 and chips make up something like 50% of the production cost.

Which components do you think are so expensive?

Why does the actual cost of the saved components have to actually be $300?  They're valued at whatever BITMAIN decides to value them at and the rest of us just have to deal.

What exactly will you be doing with the old boards? Will you be throwing them away? That's ~$150 down the drain.

Sell them for 25$ and let someone else worry about it.  Hell, if I'm so inclined maybe I'll have some of their control boards made up and sell those too.

So you are going do remove the heatsink/fan/thermalpaste/case/cables/controlboard and sell your asic boards to someone who will then have to add their own heatsink/fan/thermalpaste/case/cables/controlboard at a greater cost than bitmain would pay?

Do you see now why this does not make sense?

[tripppn]

I know these are arbitrary numbers. I'd just buy the S3 and sell the S1 at that point to save myself the hassle involved with the upgrade (if any) and the recycling of the old parts. Of course I would hope everyone else would do the opposite so that more equipment is junked and not contributing to the network hashrate.

And that's totally okay.  On the other hand, people like myself will opt to update my farm through upgrade saving the (arbitrary) $100, import fees, and the hassle of trying to sell a large lot of used S1's.  Hell, I could probably just sell the original hashing boards for $25 a piece and have saved $150.  Every extra dollar you spend is another dollar you need to recoup to have made the investment worthwhile in the first place.

Selling can be a hassle, very true. I'll probably put out feelers on craigslist soon. That's been very successful for me.
Selling on eBay is totally not worth the effort, and I'd rather throw them in the trash than sell on bitcointalk.

Why?  Most of the miners I've sold on Bitcointalk for straight BTC using escrow, and was the most painless experience possible.

EBay is the worst experience, because you have the threat of the Paypal chargeback, and those disgusting fees!

Ebay fees suck but if your shipping hardware chargebacks are not really something I worry about.  Thatss only with selling btc where you don't supply a tracking number.

[rograz]

Aluminum heatsinks are cheaper than you think. Probably about $5 worth of metal.

Find me those heatsinks for $5 with a MOQ of 2.

Why? Bitmain buys heatsinks by the thousands.

The main impact of the heatsinks on costs is not the manufacturing part but shipping costs.

Bitmain offering an upgrade path is quite brilliant tbh, they incentivise customers to "remove" their old products faster from the network than they otherwise would have. They sell more hardware with less diff impact and even the customers might profit from it, planned obsolescence with a twist.

[jimmothy]

Aluminum heatsinks are cheaper than you think. Probably about $5 worth of metal.

Find me those heatsinks for $5 with a MOQ of 2.

Why? Bitmain buys heatsinks by the thousands.

The main impact of the heatsinks on costs is not the manufacturing part but shipping costs.

Could be. But with with shipping at ~$6/kg they can't cost more than ~$20 to produce and ship.

[rograz]

Could be. But with with shipping at ~$6/kg they can't cost more than ~$20 to produce and ship.

DHL/UPS only charges 6$/kg in China? Stop reminding me I live in the wrong part of the world

[klondike_bar]

Could be. But with with shipping at ~$6/kg they can't cost more than ~$20 to produce and ship.

DHL/UPS only charges 6$/kg in China? Stop reminding me I live in the wrong part of the world

shipping the S1 to canada cost bitmain about $120 if i recall. So by shipping only boards they might save ~$80 at most, and it would require virtually discarding your S1 (which is still profitable for several months)

[Majixagi]

I know these are arbitrary numbers. I'd just buy the S3 and sell the S1 at that point to save myself the hassle involved with the upgrade (if any) and the recycling of the old parts. Of course I would hope everyone else would do the opposite so that more equipment is junked and not contributing to the network hashrate.

And that's totally okay.  On the other hand, people like myself will opt to update my farm through upgrade saving the (arbitrary) $100, import fees, and the hassle of trying to sell a large lot of used S1's.  Hell, I could probably just sell the original hashing boards for $25 a piece and have saved $150.  Every extra dollar you spend is another dollar you need to recoup to have made the investment worthwhile in the first place.

Selling can be a hassle, very true. I'll probably put out feelers on craigslist soon. That's been very successful for me.
Selling on eBay is totally not worth the effort, and I'd rather throw them in the trash than sell on bitcointalk.

Why?  Most of the miners I've sold on Bitcointalk for straight BTC using escrow, and was the most painless experience possible.

EBay is the worst experience, because you have the threat of the Paypal chargeback, and those disgusting fees!

I'm not going to go into details, but I was extorted by a buyer after an otherwise normal escrowed sale that had no issues. Prior to that I had very good experiences both buying and selling here. I certainly could have won a court case against him for attempting what he did, but it wasn't worth my trouble. Long story short, I guess I probably would make an attempt to sell here again but just pay a little more attention to opsec.

[dropt]

Why? Bitmain buys heatsinks by the thousands.

You said heatsinks are cheap, and that there was probably $5 in metal.  So find me some; you made no mention of the quantities required to get that price.  In business I don't sell retail at my suppliers cost, I mark it up appropriately.  So what if BITMAIN can get them for $5 a piece, you and I can't.  By your logic BITMAIN should be selling these units at cost with zero profit.  That may make sense in your head, but it's not how the real world works.

You are imagining that there will be ~$300 in savings which simply cannot be the case.

I already told you they were arbitrary numbers for sake of making a point.  Don't like $300? Fine, pick some other numbers.  

There cannot even be half that amount considering bitmain sold complete S1s for $200 and chips make up something like 50% of the production cost.

Oh sure, so you're going to get on my case for arbitrary numbers and then counter with your own arbitrary numbers.  Great debate, you should go on tour.  

So you are going do remove the heatsink/fan/thermalpaste/case/cables/controlboard and sell your asic boards to someone who will then have to add their own heatsink/fan/thermalpaste/case/cables/controlboard at a greater cost than bitmain would pay?

Yes, I'm going to undo the ribbon cables, fan connector, little tabs that hold the control board on, and the 40 screws holding the board on.  Fix up the paste and slap the new ones on.  As for what the other guy's going to do? Not my problem, and it really doesn't matter what BITMAIN pays, the end-user is not BITMAIN.  You, the other guy, and myself are not entitled to BITMAIN's pricing structure. As soon as you figure that out it's going to make digesting this a lot easier.

It blows my mind that you think every miner is an intelligent rational actor.  How many of Asicminer's USB Erupters were sold that will never make their cost back?  How about AM Blades and Cubes?  How about all of the idiots who are still caught up in the BFL fiasco?  Why are people on EBAY paying more for second hand miners then they could buy them for right from the source?

Do you see now why this does not make sense?

It doesn't have to make sense.  Not a lot in this world does.

[chadbu]

If the difficulty keeps growing at 19% every 12 days, and we hit the wall at 20 nanometer chips, the S47 will be the size of the death star in 2020.
Which pool will rule the galaxy...       -SHA256 WARS-   now casting...
 

[Meech]

( insert Wookie Laugh here )  It's interesting the tech being developed but as companies acquire more money hopefully we will have a major leap ahead one of these months.

[philipma1957]

Why? Bitmain buys heatsinks by the thousands.

You said heatsinks are cheap, and that there was probably $5 in metal.  So find me some; you made no mention of the quantities required to get that price.  In business I don't sell retail at my suppliers cost, I mark it up appropriately.  So what if BITMAIN can get them for $5 a piece, you and I can't.  By your logic BITMAIN should be selling these units at cost with zero profit.  That may make sense in your head, but it's not how the real world works.

You are imagining that there will be ~$300 in savings which simply cannot be the case.

I already told you they were arbitrary numbers for sake of making a point.  Don't like $300? Fine, pick some other numbers.  

There cannot even be half that amount considering bitmain sold complete S1s for $200 and chips make up something like 50% of the production cost.

Oh sure, so you're going to get on my case for arbitrary numbers and then counter with your own arbitrary numbers.  Great debate, you should go on tour.  

So you are going do remove the heatsink/fan/thermalpaste/case/cables/controlboard and sell your asic boards to someone who will then have to add their own heatsink/fan/thermalpaste/case/cables/controlboard at a greater cost than bitmain would pay?

Yes, I'm going to undo the ribbon cables, fan connector, little tabs that hold the control board on, and the 40 screws holding the board on.  Fix up the paste and slap the new ones on.  As for what the other guy's going to do? Not my problem, and it really doesn't matter what BITMAIN pays, the end-user is not BITMAIN.  You, the other guy, and myself are not entitled to BITMAIN's pricing structure. As soon as you figure that out it's going to make digesting this a lot easier.

It blows my mind that you think every miner is an intelligent rational actor.  How many of Asicminer's USB Erupters were sold that will never make their cost back?  How about AM Blades and Cubes?  How about all of the idiots who are still caught up in the BFL fiasco?  Why are people on EBAY paying more for second hand miners then they could buy them for right from the source?

Do you see now why this does not make sense?

It doesn't have to make sense.  Not a lot in this world does.

Honest people buy on used gear on ebay because

1) 45 day protection

2) coupons, ebucks, other  discounts. --- I purchased  items with 10% off  a 20 coupon then 2% off .  the item was cheaper then any seller anywhere.

3)they do not have the btc to buy gear

4) I sell on ebay my gimmick is my gear is the cheapest on ebay in its class.
    I do well. I give them complete setup help and never sell anything I can't run in my house.
    Many buyers actually trust me since I do the right thing for them.

[dropt]

Honest people buy on used gear on ebay because

1) 45 day protection

2) coupons, ebucks, other  discounts. --- I purchased  items with 10% off  a 20 coupon then 2% off .  the item was cheaper then any seller anywhere.

3)they do not have the btc to buy gear

4) I sell on ebay my gimmick is my gear is the cheapest on ebay in its class.
    I do well. I give them complete setup help and never sell anything I can't run in my house.
    Many buyers actually trust me since I do the right thing for them.

Okay, I'm not sure your anecdotal evidence is enough to bolster a point either way, but thanks for the input.

[TheJuice]

Great work. I think we may be nearing the peak of mining with current technology.

[pidge]

Honest people buy on used gear on ebay because

1) 45 day protection

2) coupons, ebucks, other  discounts. --- I purchased  items with 10% off  a 20 coupon then 2% off .  the item was cheaper then any seller anywhere.

3)they do not have the btc to buy gear

4) I sell on ebay my gimmick is my gear is the cheapest on ebay in its class.
    I do well. I give them complete setup help and never sell anything I can't run in my house.
    Many buyers actually trust me since I do the right thing for them.

Bingo.  I follow #3 and #4 here in New Zealand with TradeMe.  Many, many happy buyers, and keep them happy with making sure they can get them running.

[taipo]

If the S3 is shipped before the end of this month, the most anyone will make about 0.8 BTC from it before the difficulty leaps high enough to reduce income to under 0.005 BTC a day ( in about 5 to 8 difficulty leaps time from shipping date ) for a 500 GH machine. While still being profitable, technically speaking, for most thats about the best you could expect from the S3.

So thats the official price I am going to put out there. 0.8 BTC, plus the customs cost ( for most miners not living in China ), plus the cost of a PSU. Mine it for 5 to 8 difficulty shifts to get ROI, and then grin and bare through each day making $2.50 profit per day after that.

Anything more than that to me is unrealistic under the present circumstances.

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