{ANNOUNCEMENT} WBX Exchange Frozen

[dooglus]

I have a backup from before you locked me out.

I don't have any recent backups, since I no longer have access to the database server.

User balances have changed since my last backup.

Who currently has control of the site?  If you put me in touch with them, I can tell them how to get me the information I need to pay people back.

[PatrickHarnett]

Hi All,

I would like to remind you all that i was advised by my lawyers to reframe from making any comments in public
Thanks Andre

What I'm trying to work out is who I can contact to get information.  You say it's the bank and banking ombudsman, and refer to what your lawyer said, but then say it's out of your hands.  If the banks have taken "it all", how much, what's their process for the claim.  The wall and exclusion isn't helpful, therefore, there needs to be someone I can deal with (or have my lawyers deal with).

Again, in the absence of any better resolution, I can just throw this to a collection agency.

[Andre Jensen (World Bitcoin Exchange)]

Hi All,

I would like to remind you all that i was advised by my lawyers to reframe from making any comments in public
Thanks Andre

What I'm trying to work out is who I can contact to get information.  You say it's the bank and banking ombudsman, and refer to what your lawyer said, but then say it's out of your hands.  If the banks have taken "it all", how much, what's their process for the claim.  The wall and exclusion isn't helpful, therefore, there needs to be someone I can deal with (or have my lawyers deal with).

Again, in the absence of any better resolution, I can just throw this to a collection agency.

Patrick

Again post your lawyers details here so i can contact them.

Andre

[repentance]

What I'm trying to work out is who I can contact to get information.  You say it's the bank and banking ombudsman, and refer to what your lawyer said, but then say it's out of your hands.  If the banks have taken "it all", how much, what's their process for the claim.  The wall and exclusion isn't helpful, therefore, there needs to be someone I can deal with (or have my lawyers deal with).

Again, in the absence of any better resolution, I can just throw this to a collection agency.

I'd contact both the Qld and the Federal Financial Services Ombudsman.  They can at least investigate and confirm that the bank confiscated money from the account in question.  It's also possible that any residual funds in the account were transferred to one of the "unclaimed monies" funds by the bank.  This is what FPSs often do when an account is closed due to suspicious activity (places like PayPal and Technocash explicitly state in their ToS that they will do this).  The Ombudsman would be able to tell you if this is the case and which fund to contact (there are several).

Who currently has control of the site?  If you put me in touch with them, I can tell them how to get me the information I need to pay people back.

If it's Intersango/Bitcoin Consultancy then they need to make that public.  Their deception regarding their stake in Bitcoinica has generated an enormous amount of ill-will and distrust.  While references to other parties (including Andre and Chris) have been removed from the WBX webiste, references to Intersango and Bitcoin Consultancy remain.  Right now, two businesses with which Bitcoin Consultancy and Intersango are associated have had their databases deleted recently and in both cases the presumed owners of those businesses no longer have operational control.  In both cases, the transfer of control was not disclosed until after it occurred.

You might want to contact Andre's lawyers before making any refunds and get something in writing from them authorising you to do so and outlining the return process (ie, whether everyone owed money will get a percentage of their account balance paid out as BTC or whether people whose accounts show a BTC balance will be paid out in full and those who had dollar balances will be SOL).  

...as i have been advised the current database has been erased this happened last week.

I suspect people would like more information about how this came about and who had control of the database when it happened.

[Andre Jensen (World Bitcoin Exchange)]

I have a backup from before you locked me out.

I don't have any recent backups, since I no longer have access to the database server.

User balances have changed since my last backup.

Who currently has control of the site?  If you put me in touch with them, I can tell them how to get me the information I need to pay people back.

Hi Chris

Please use the data base you have as i have been advised the current database has been erased this happened last week.

Andre

[PatrickHarnett]

Patrick

Again post your lawyers details here so i can contact them.

Andre

I would prefer you were able to deal with me directly (and you know how to contact me either pm or email), and as my Sydney based lawyers are $375/hr I would prefer not chew through a few thousand dollars on that at this stage where it is unnecessary.

[rjk]

I have a backup from before you locked me out.

I don't have any recent backups, since I no longer have access to the database server.

User balances have changed since my last backup.

Who currently has control of the site?  If you put me in touch with them, I can tell them how to get me the information I need to pay people back.

Hi Chris

Please use the data base you have as i have been advised the current database has been erased this happened last week.

Andre

This stuff doesn't "just happen". I would recommend you be a bit more up front and honest about what the fuck is going on. Were you hacked? Is someone forcing you to withhold information? You have stated that you can no longer retain lawyers because they are costing too much, so I assume now that you may speak freely. If not, I think it would be a good idea to out the puppetmaster that is screwing you over as well as everyone else.

[scales]

Hi All

I no longer have full control over the exchange site, a update on the recovery of all exchange member funds, recent correspondence with our banks and the banking ombudsman is the bank is entitled to hold all exchange funds as they were fraudulently taken from bank accounts across the country and deposited into my exchange account, the source of the fraud activity came from Germany a i can't tell you much more than that. 

This being said Chris has the only funds (assets) of the exchange, they will need to be returned to the exchange members.

Thanks Andre   

I will be online for the next hour to answer any questions

I deposited cash into your wbx account and have the receipt for that transaction. If all fraudulent activity was bank transfers then no one has the right to hold my money. There is no way my deposit would be considered fraudulent.  Who can I contact? This should be a straight forward and easy refund. You should at least enquire on my behalf as I do believe they should only be concerned about bank wire transfers!

[repentance]

I deposited cash into your wbx account and have the receipt for that transaction. If all fraudulent activity was bank transfers then no one has the right to hold my money. There is no way my deposit would be considered fraudulent.  Who can I contact? This should be a straight forward and easy refund. You should at least enquire on my behalf as I do believe they should only be concerned about bank wire transfers!

If the matter has been reviewed by the Financial Services Ombudsman then that is who you need to contact.  You need to remember that the WBX bank account would have been hit twice - by the fraudster to fund transactions on his WBE account before the fraud was detected and then by the bank reversing the deposits.  Poor risk management protocols essentially meant that "your" money and that of other customers is what the fraudster used to conduct his or her transactions.

[brendio]

Hi All,

I would like to remind you all that i was advised by my lawyers to reframe from making any comments in public, this is why i have kept silent until now i am very sorry and it was frustrating for me watching my personal details get posted by users here, some also have mentioned my family which Im not at all happy with you wouldn't like it if i posted your personal info here. ( remember I have your personal info)

Thanks Andre

Hi Andre,

All of the personal information on you that was posted was already publicly available (as opposed to the personal info you have on us). If your website had the correct company and contact details, we would not have had to go digging. Could you please PM me your current business address (in Qld, not old one in Vic) for further correspondence on this matter.

I truly and deeply feel for the stress you are going through with this, but in my opinion the fact that you have been defrauded does not give you the right or excuse to defraud legitimate users of your exchange.

Regards.

[repentance]

Hi All,

I would like to remind you all that i was advised by my lawyers to reframe from making any comments in public, this is why i have kept silent until now i am very sorry and it was frustrating for me watching my personal details get posted by users here, some also have mentioned my family which Im not at all happy with you wouldn't like it if i posted your personal info here. ( remember I have your personal info)

Thanks Andre

Hi Andre,

All of the personal information on you that was posted was already publicly available (as opposed to the personal info you have on us). If your website had the correct company and contact details, we would not have had to go digging. Could you please PM me your current business address (in Qld, not old one in Vic) for further correspondence on this matter.

I truly and deeply feel for the stress you are going through with this, but in my opinion the fact that you have been defrauded does not give you the right or excuse to defraud legitimate users of your exchange.

Regards.

Interesting that Andre claims that the database has been erased but also claims to have users' personal information.

[scales]

I deposited cash into your wbx account and have the receipt for that transaction. If all fraudulent activity was bank transfers then no one has the right to hold my money. There is no way my deposit would be considered fraudulent.  Who can I contact? This should be a straight forward and easy refund. You should at least enquire on my behalf as I do believe they should only be concerned about bank wire transfers!

If the matter has been reviewed by the Financial Services Ombudsman then that is who you need to contact.  You need to remember that the WBX bank account would have been hit twice - by the fraudster to fund transactions on his WBE account before the fraud was detected and then by the bank reversing the deposits.  Poor risk management protocols essentially meant that "your" money and that of other customers is what the fraudster used to conduct his or her transactions.

I see, thanks for clearing that up. It's all a bit confusing for me.

[dooglus]

Hi Chris

Please use the data base you have as i have been advised the current database has been erased this happened last week.

Andre

Andre, I can still see my statement on your site.  This is proof that the database hasn't been deleted.  All the other users will also be able to log in and see their statements.  If the database was empty we'd not be seeing statement entries.

Please, get me a database backup and stop this nonsense.

[dooglus]

Who currently has control of the site?  If you put me in touch with them, I can tell them how to get me the information I need to pay people back.

If it's Intersango/Bitcoin Consultancy then they need to make that public.

That's very unlikely.  The Bitcoin Consultancy made the Intersango (version 1) code open source, and WBX used that source code.  Other than that, the Bitcoin Consultancy is in no way related to WBX as far as I know.

[dooglus]

You might want to contact Andre's lawyers before making any refunds and get something in writing from them authorising you to do so and outlining the return process (ie, whether everyone owed money will get a percentage of their account balance paid out as BTC or whether people whose accounts show a BTC balance will be paid out in full and those who had dollar balances will be SOL).  

That's a good idea.

Andre, do you have any comment regarding this?  I read above that you no longer have lawyers, so I guess it's entirely up to you how you want me to refund the BTC to your customers.

I think your suggestion of using the outdated database backup is unworkable, since that would result in sending the wrong amounts out.

[Andre Jensen (World Bitcoin Exchange)]

Hi All,

I would like to remind you all that i was advised by my lawyers to reframe from making any comments in public, this is why i have kept silent until now i am very sorry and it was frustrating for me watching my personal details get posted by users here, some also have mentioned my family which Im not at all happy with you wouldn't like it if i posted your personal info here. ( remember I have your personal info)

Thanks Andre

Hi Andre,

All of the personal information on you that was posted was already publicly available (as opposed to the personal info you have on us). If your website had the correct company and contact details, we would not have had to go digging. Could you please PM me your current business address (in Qld, not old one in Vic) for further correspondence on this matter.

I truly and deeply feel for the stress you are going through with this, but in my opinion the fact that you have been defrauded does not give you the right or excuse to defraud legitimate users of your exchange.

Regards.

Interesting that Andre claims that the database has been erased but also claims to have users' personal information.

Hi There

I said i don't have full control of the site at no point did not say never had access to the data store. but thanks for your input.

Andre

[Andre Jensen (World Bitcoin Exchange)]

Who currently has control of the site?  If you put me in touch with them, I can tell them how to get me the information I need to pay people back.

If it's Intersango/Bitcoin Consultancy then they need to make that public.

That's very unlikely.  The Bitcoin Consultancy made the Intersango (version 1) code open source, and WBX used that source code.  Other than that, the Bitcoin Consultancy is in no way related to WBX as far as I know.

No bitcoin consultancy dose not own WBX.

[Andre Jensen (World Bitcoin Exchange)]

You might want to contact Andre's lawyers before making any refunds and get something in writing from them authorising you to do so and outlining the return process (ie, whether everyone owed money will get a percentage of their account balance paid out as BTC or whether people whose accounts show a BTC balance will be paid out in full and those who had dollar balances will be SOL). 

That's a good idea.

Andre, do you have any comment regarding this?  I read above that you no longer have lawyers, so I guess it's entirely up to you how you want me to refund the BTC to your customers.

I think your suggestion of using the outdated database backup is unworkable, since that would result in sending the wrong amounts out.

Would the last log on the statement help chris?

This is all i could get sorry

08:40pm 22-Feb-12   1559   Withdraw 21.4377 BTC      
11:22pm 22-Feb-12   1018   Create voucher: 1.00 AUD      
11:23pm 22-Feb-12   1018   Redeem voucher: 1.00 AUD      
09:29am 23-Feb-12   1440   Withdraw 100.0000 BTC      
12:24pm 23-Feb-12   1273   Withdraw 4.6568 BTC      
01:58pm 23-Feb-12   1273   Withdraw 12.0000 BTC      
08:09pm 23-Feb-12   1544   Withdraw 14.2607 BTC      
10:02pm 23-Feb-12   1505   Withdraw 28.2348 BTC      
10:32am 24-Feb-12   1018   Withdraw 50.0000 BTC      
10:46am 24-Feb-12   1294   Withdraw 40.0000 BTC      
11:25am 24-Feb-12   1440   Withdraw 35.4539 BTC      
06:06pm 25-Feb-12   1171   Withdraw 12.4598 BTC      
02:29pm 29-Feb-12   1429   Deposit 0.4100 BTC      
03:22pm 29-Feb-12   1126   Withdraw 40.4835 BTC      
02:42pm 05-Mar-12   1206   Withdraw 21.5360 BTC      
09:30pm 05-Mar-12   1300   Withdraw 42.5281 BTC      
01:45am 08-Mar-12   1364   Withdraw 100.0000 BTC      
10:45am 08-Mar-12   1429   Withdraw 0.5000 BTC      
10:46am 09-Mar-12   1364   Withdraw 100.0000 BTC      
10:17am 12-Mar-12   1364   Withdraw 100.0000 BTC      
05:07pm 13-Mar-12   1364   Withdraw 100.0000 BTC      
01:05pm 14-Mar-12   1364   Withdraw 62.9782 BTC      
10:09am 21-Mar-12   1018   Create voucher: 1.00 AUD         
10:10am 21-Mar-12   1018   Redeem voucher: 1.00 AUD         
11:43am 19-Apr-12   1006   Create voucher: 497.33 AUD         
11:48am 19-Apr-12   1018   Redeem voucher: 497.33 AUD   

Andre      

[Clipse]

Hi All,

I would like to remind you all that i was advised by my lawyers to reframe from making any comments in public, this is why i have kept silent until now i am very sorry and it was frustrating for me watching my personal details get posted by users here, some also have mentioned my family which Im not at all happy with you wouldn't like it if i posted your personal info here. ( remember I have your personal info)

Thanks Andre

Say what?

First you comment that you cant afford having lawyers represent you then you post that your lawyer advised you to refrain from making comments?

[Andre Jensen (World Bitcoin Exchange)]

Hi All,

I would like to remind you all that i was advised by my lawyers to reframe from making any comments in public, this is why i have kept silent until now i am very sorry and it was frustrating for me watching my personal details get posted by users here, some also have mentioned my family which Im not at all happy with you wouldn't like it if i posted your personal info here. ( remember I have your personal info)

Thanks Andre

Say what?

First you comment that you cant afford having lawyers represent you then you post that your lawyer advised you to refrain from making comments?

Right thats why I'm commenting on stupid comments like this.

Andre