{ANNOUNCEMENT} WBX Exchange Frozen

[Clipse]

Hi All,

I would like to remind you all that i was advised by my lawyers to reframe from making any comments in public, this is why i have kept silent until now i am very sorry and it was frustrating for me watching my personal details get posted by users here, some also have mentioned my family which Im not at all happy with you wouldn't like it if i posted your personal info here. ( remember I have your personal info)

Thanks Andre

Say what?

First you comment that you cant afford having lawyers represent you then you post that your lawyer advised you to refrain from making comments?

Right thats why I'm commenting on stupid comments like this.

Andre

Ah I see, being a scammer gets to make you cocky right?

Bahahaha I hope someone actually goes through and take you to the cleaners, these activities is disease ridden filth.

[Andre Jensen (World Bitcoin Exchange)]

Hi All,

I would like to remind you all that i was advised by my lawyers to reframe from making any comments in public, this is why i have kept silent until now i am very sorry and it was frustrating for me watching my personal details get posted by users here, some also have mentioned my family which Im not at all happy with you wouldn't like it if i posted your personal info here. ( remember I have your personal info)

Thanks Andre

Hi Andre,

All of the personal information on you that was posted was already publicly available (as opposed to the personal info you have on us). If your website had the correct company and contact details, we would not have had to go digging. Could you please PM me your current business address (in Qld, not old one in Vic) for further correspondence on this matter.

The information was correct all along
[/quote]

I truly and deeply feel for the stress you are going through with this, but in my opinion the fact that you have been defrauded does not give you the right or excuse to defraud legitimate users of your exchange.

Regards.
[/quote]
We have both been defrauded, if i had the money to repay you i would but i don't please accept what chris is offering he holds whats left of WBX.

Understand

[Raoul Duke]

I suppose it's time for you to get a scammer tag.
One more thing, why are you still advertising your "exchange" in your signature?

[Andre Jensen (World Bitcoin Exchange)]

Hi All,

I would like to remind you all that i was advised by my lawyers to reframe from making any comments in public, this is why i have kept silent until now i am very sorry and it was frustrating for me watching my personal details get posted by users here, some also have mentioned my family which Im not at all happy with you wouldn't like it if i posted your personal info here. ( remember I have your personal info)

Thanks Andre

Say what?

First you comment that you cant afford having lawyers represent you then you post that your lawyer advised you to refrain from making comments?

Right thats why I'm commenting on stupid comments like this.

Andre

Ah I see, being a scammer gets to make you cocky right?

Bahahaha I hope someone actually goes through and take you to the cleaners, these activities is disease ridden filth.

I have already been taken to the cleaners, so i don't know what your going on about?? its people like you that make me want to leave this forum and not come back.....but everyone looses then, thats why I'm sticking around.

[Andre Jensen (World Bitcoin Exchange)]

I suppose it's time for you to get a scammer tag.
One more thing, why are you still advertising your "exchange" in your signature?

sorry to offend you i have now removed them

Andre

[Raoul Duke]

I suppose it's time for you to get a scammer tag.
One more thing, why are you still advertising your "exchange" in your signature?

sorry to offend you i have now removed them

Andre

Where did I say I was offended?

I still think you should get a scammer tag.

[Clipse]

Hi All,

I would like to remind you all that i was advised by my lawyers to reframe from making any comments in public, this is why i have kept silent until now i am very sorry and it was frustrating for me watching my personal details get posted by users here, some also have mentioned my family which Im not at all happy with you wouldn't like it if i posted your personal info here. ( remember I have your personal info)

Thanks Andre

Say what?

First you comment that you cant afford having lawyers represent you then you post that your lawyer advised you to refrain from making comments?

Right thats why I'm commenting on stupid comments like this.

Andre

Ah I see, being a scammer gets to make you cocky right?

Bahahaha I hope someone actually goes through and take you to the cleaners, these activities is disease ridden filth.

I have already been taken to the cleaners, so i don't know what your going on about?? its people like you that make me want to leave this forum and not come back.....but everyone looses then, thats why I'm sticking around.

What you dont understand is that if you operate a business and take a loss due to negligence/scammers then you dont simply come to the forum and try to be part of the users losing funds.

You are no better than the bailed out banks, they ran a profitable business and it meltdown then cried wanting people to also feel sorry for them.

No, plain and simple, you still owe people money and whatever you personally lost is none of their concern. You have an obligation to find money somewhere or liquidate legally else its well within their right to press charges wether you think its somehow unfair or not.

You are the holder of their money, you either take risk insurance in case of fraud or you dont and cover fraud yourself.

I did laugh at your comment about leaving the forum, thats exactly shakaru's last comments on this forum. I dont think your word means much either, if you want anyone here to actually believe you lost everything and didnt take the money/coins somehow yourself then provide statements to account holders showing verifiable proof that what you say is indeed true. Just because you state it doesnt make it true, and even less so with bitcoin related businesses.

Bitcoins will take forever to get taken seriously if we consistently feel sorry for the poor companies who got defraud/scammed or even self-incriminated themself. Every case of fraud/theft is somehow handled like a porcelin doll, enough with that.

[dooglus]

Would the last log on the statement help chris?

This is all i could get sorry

That's a great start.  Thanks.  It looks like only one user sold their balance of around $500.

I expect you also have access to https://www.worldbitcoinexchange.com/?page=users

Can you visit that page then hit control-S to save it to a file and email me the result please?  That will list balances for users and give the totals for BTC and AUD owed.  Then I can cross-check with my most recent backup.

Thanks.

Chris.

[bulanula]

watching

[dooglus]

Hi All,

I would like to remind you all that i was advised by my lawyers to reframe from making any comments in public, this is why i have kept silent until now i am very sorry and it was frustrating for me watching my personal details get posted by users here, some also have mentioned my family which Im not at all happy with you wouldn't like it if i posted your personal info here. ( remember I have your personal info)

Thanks Andre

Say what?

First you comment that you cant afford having lawyers represent you then you post that your lawyer advised you to refrain from making comments?

I think he's saying that he was at one point retaining lawyers, that the lawyers told him to keep quiet, and that he can no longer afford the lawyers.  There's no inconsistency there.

[Bigpiggy01]

I think he's saying that he was at one point retaining lawyers, that the lawyers told him to keep quiet, and that he can no longer afford the lawyers.  There's no inconsistency there.

As long as he's refusing to provide contact details for them or himself then yes there is.

[dooglus]

I think he's saying that he was at one point retaining lawyers, that the lawyers told him to keep quiet, and that he can no longer afford the lawyers.  There's no inconsistency there.

As long as he's refusing to provide contact details for them or himself then yes there is.

I'm not saying that anything he has said is true.  Just that "I used to have lawyers" isn't incompatible with "I don't have lawyers now".

[dooglus]

Using the numbers that Andre recently provided, on top of my most recent backup shows that WBX should currently be holding
1,769.0417 BTC and 25,779.49 AUD.  If we assume a price of $5 AUD/BTC then that's a total of 1,769.0417 + 5,155.898 = 6,924.9397 BTC.

I have 1768 BTC (here: http://blockchain.info/address/1DodGYjF5LFoKg186jANZV9U8znXjagSzS) and according to Andre that is the sum total of the exchange's assets.  The other 1 BTC plus change was left in the 'hot' wallet and is presumably still on the server.  Ah - I have a backup of the server wallet.  I'll check what's in it.

[...]

It contained 0.9876932 BTC, which I have just sent to the above address.  The shortfall will be the result of the exchange paying Bitcoin transaction fees.

So I have access to 1768.9876932 BTC out of 6924.9397 BTC.  That's 25.545%.

That number will change based on what AUD/BTC rate is used, but it looks like users will end up getting around 26% of what they are owed.

I have included the commission collected by the site in the assets of the exchange.  I don't know what should happen to that.  Options:

* Andre gets 100% of the commission, and the users get what's left after commission
* Andre gets none of the commission - it goes towards reimbursing the users
* Andre gets 26%, just like everyone else
* something else

I've not yet received a copy of the user balances page from Andre which would confirm the above.

Disclosure: I have no funds tied up at WBX, and so have no financial interest in how this is done.

Comments?

[dooglus]

I just noticed another change to the WBX site:



So it's possible to get verified to withdraw without providing ID so long as I send you $249?  Is this a loophole in the KYC(utby) regulations?

Who has control of the site now?  Could it be that they are planning to relaunch?

I don't see why else anyone would be changing the site now that it has been closed down.

It would really be a good idea to shut the site down fully before I start paying your customers back.  Because at the moment it is still possible for them to exchange balances with each other without me being able to see that they are doing it.  Or at least take a final copy of the 'users' page and then wipe the database so they don't have balances to trade, if that's not possible.  And it really would seem to be best to wait for the current mess to be cleared up before starting out on a new one, don't you think?

[PatrickHarnett]

We have both been defrauded, if i had the money to repay you i would but i don't please accept what chris is offering he holds whats left of WBX.

Actually, that is not good enough - you are liable and held funds and have a duty to make good.  Even if Chris's suggestion is implemented, you don't get to simply walk away without making good the losses of the people that have placed trust and funds with you.

[repentance]

I just noticed another change to the WBX site:



So it's possible to get verified to withdraw without providing ID so long as I send you $249?  Is this a loophole in the KYC(utby) regulations?

Who has control of the site now?  Could it be that they are planning to relaunch?

I don't see why else anyone would be changing the site now that it has been closed down.

Nope, you can't get around Australia's KYC/AML/CTF laws by paying a fee.  While they could technically charge to expedite processing of ID documents, they're still required to ID their customers properly - a receipt number for a cash deposit alone puts them in very dangerous legal territory.  Of course there is no information about who is now operating WBX (why change the website if it isn't going to relaunch) or any guarantee it's being operated by someone in Australia.  There are also laws which make operating an insolvent business an offence.

Are the bank account details still the same as before Chris?

Chris, make sure you get written authority from Andre to distribute the Bitcoins you have in your possession and written instructions about how they're to be distributed.  The legal responsibility for any decision to use Peter's money to pay Paul should rest firmly on Andre's shoulders.

People should also be aware that in the absence of formal insolvency, they can't be forced to accept 26% of the amount they're owed and that accepting a partial payment at this time does not bar them from pursuing recovery of the remainder.

[dooglus]

Nope, you can't get around Australia's KYC/AML/CTF laws by paying a fee.

I thought not.  My question was kind of rhetorical.

Are the bank account details still the same as before Chris?

Nope.  But the account name is "WBX".  Looks like a work in progress:

Chris, make sure you get written authority from Andre to distribute the Bitcoins you have in your possession and written instructions about how they're to be distributed. 

That makes sense.  I was certainly going to wait for his agreement to my proposed terms here.  I don't know what effective difference it would make to have it on a piece of paper with a signature on it, when I've no idea what Andre's signature looks like.  I don't even know if the person running WBX was really called Andre, or whether that's just the name of the director of a company he decided to use the name of.  This forum is probably the most secure way I have of communicating with him, since at least here he has to log in to post.  Perhaps having it on paper makes a legal difference.

Andre, please can you read my proposal re. returning the exchange assets and either agree or propose changes?  I'd still like a copy of the 'Users' page from WBX, and for the WBX site to be taken down or cleared out to prevent further balance trading on it.

[Clipse]

Andre, if you still have a house,car and some financial aid then you are still in a position to pay back every single cent/bitcent that you had in your posession for legit clients.

Simply stating you cant pay since you were scammed is bullshit, then sell your car or morgage your house or whatever as long as you pay back what you owe(currently stole) from the legit users.

Its as simple as that, you lose their money then you lose your property.

[PatrickHarnett]

Using the numbers that Andre recently provided, on top of my most recent backup shows that WBX should currently be holding
1,769.0417 BTC and 25,779.49 AUD.  If we assume a price of $5 AUD/BTC then that's a total of 1,769.0417 + 5,155.898 = 6,924.9397 BTC.

Just coming back to this, managing to lose $25,779?! That must have been pretty damn obvious well before you pulled the plug of people's accounts.

(observation - my account now tells me I have a zero balance)

[Clipse]

Using the numbers that Andre recently provided, on top of my most recent backup shows that WBX should currently be holding
1,769.0417 BTC and 25,779.49 AUD.  If we assume a price of $5 AUD/BTC then that's a total of 1,769.0417 + 5,155.898 = 6,924.9397 BTC.

Just coming back to this, managing to lose $25,779?! That must have been pretty damn obvious well before you pulled the plug of people's accounts.

(observation - my account now tells me I have a zero balance)

What I find amusing is how he managed to lose the money of the non-scamming legit users. Andre, please enlighten us how a bank can hold onto legit deposits ? Be honest, you started to live of the money and when people started to scam you there wasnt enough money left for the legit deposits? Correct?

Thats assuming you didnt just use the scamming argument to try and wriggle your way out of this.

Provide your clients with police reports of theft/scam/stolen money reported by the bank.(yes if the bank seized the money they have to file it with the police unless you live in some backwash lawless country)