★[ANN] [NAV] NAV COIN - Community Fund Live!!!

[pakage]

I think 90 days from now is more than enough time due to cryptsy concerns.
Polo should give fair warning about the swap in there notices box, then in one weeks time just do the swap themselves(its not that hard) then run 2.0 and no one would be the wiser.
polo is making this harder than it should be, just lock it up for a few hours while its swapped. i bet no one even notices.
plus putting this statement on polo notice box will be free advertising.
this is the only way to do it with out pissing people off. I hope tristan sees this, i know the mods agree with me.
close the market, lock it, swap it, done. and then all sides are happy.

I agree with this its by far the best way.
Poloniex saying we should keep nav1.0 alive indefinitely  because they don't want to do anything to their customers coins is garbage that doesn't make any sense.

Bspus is also right if Nav was making big volume you bet your ass poloniex would have swapped it already.

I will take this on board and ask Tristan if it is possible to write a notice on the Polo box for us

[1714138116]

1714138116

[1714138116]

1714138116

[CryptKeeper]

• We extend the swap period indefinitely. If someone comes to us with their old coins at any point in the future we will guarantee their coins can be swapped for the new coin at 1:1.
• We leave the old Nav market open on your exchange so users can withdraw but also open the new one. We contact the people with the old coin on your exchange and we make them aware of the coin swap process.

I second that and I'm glad that my concerns are finally getting attention!

Any coins which remain unswapped after the final cut off date will be entrusted to the Nav Foundation and used to help cover costs for the 12+ servers we rent to run the anonymous network and to fund Nav Coin's future developments.

Using the leftover amount of coins for staking is ok, but taking them away from their owners is shady. That's not how crypto currencies should work! To avoid any accusations make it at least a very long period - one year or even longer - for manual swaps.

Hey CryptKeeper, yes they are valid concerns. Concerns that are shared by the Dev Team and largely unnecessary as I will explain:

If we refer to the NAV 2.0 Announcement Post

After the total 4 week swap period, the NAV Foundation will assume guardianship of any unclaimed coins. From then onwards users can contact us if they missed out on the swap and we will do our best to see they get their coins upgraded. Past that, the foundation will use the unswapped coins for covering the costs of new projects and server’s upkeep.

We always stated that anyone who missed the coin swap and is a legitimate NAV owner will be able to get their coins upgraded.

I've repeated this quite a few times:

We want everyone who rightfully owns Nav to get their coins swapped.

The Nav Foundation will hold the coins and attempt to perform manual swaps for any late comers to the process. After this, the remaining coins will be used to fund future development and pay hosting costs of the anonymous network which ultimately benefits all users of Nav Coin.

What we want to do is close off the manual swap method using the NAV Wallet and Coin Swapper which I built at a certain date. If anyone misses that date, they will need to approach us directly and we will swap their coins for them on a case by case basis. This way we can attempt to block the Cryptsy thief while still getting all rightful owners their coins.

Yes we have also said that would like to use some of the unswapped coins to help pay for anonymous server infrastructure and perhaps fund some development projects. We only intended this as a way of reusing the stolen Cryptsy funds to benefit all NAV investors, not to take away coins from legitimate investors. If by some miracle Cryptsy is brought back online with all its NAV wallets intact, then we would also gladly swap those coins too, even if it meant the Foundation had to buy back coins it had used for projects.

Hi Pakage,
seems that I've got it wrong, thanks for clarifying this!
Maybe I've skipped those posts or I didn't fully understand it (I'm no native english).

My apologies.

[pakage]

• We extend the swap period indefinitely. If someone comes to us with their old coins at any point in the future we will guarantee their coins can be swapped for the new coin at 1:1.
• We leave the old Nav market open on your exchange so users can withdraw but also open the new one. We contact the people with the old coin on your exchange and we make them aware of the coin swap process.

I second that and I'm glad that my concerns are finally getting attention!

Any coins which remain unswapped after the final cut off date will be entrusted to the Nav Foundation and used to help cover costs for the 12+ servers we rent to run the anonymous network and to fund Nav Coin's future developments.

Using the leftover amount of coins for staking is ok, but taking them away from their owners is shady. That's not how crypto currencies should work! To avoid any accusations make it at least a very long period - one year or even longer - for manual swaps.

Hey CryptKeeper, yes they are valid concerns. Concerns that are shared by the Dev Team and largely unnecessary as I will explain:

If we refer to the NAV 2.0 Announcement Post

After the total 4 week swap period, the NAV Foundation will assume guardianship of any unclaimed coins. From then onwards users can contact us if they missed out on the swap and we will do our best to see they get their coins upgraded. Past that, the foundation will use the unswapped coins for covering the costs of new projects and server’s upkeep.

We always stated that anyone who missed the coin swap and is a legitimate NAV owner will be able to get their coins upgraded.

I've repeated this quite a few times:

We want everyone who rightfully owns Nav to get their coins swapped.

The Nav Foundation will hold the coins and attempt to perform manual swaps for any late comers to the process. After this, the remaining coins will be used to fund future development and pay hosting costs of the anonymous network which ultimately benefits all users of Nav Coin.

What we want to do is close off the manual swap method using the NAV Wallet and Coin Swapper which I built at a certain date. If anyone misses that date, they will need to approach us directly and we will swap their coins for them on a case by case basis. This way we can attempt to block the Cryptsy thief while still getting all rightful owners their coins.

Yes we have also said that would like to use some of the unswapped coins to help pay for anonymous server infrastructure and perhaps fund some development projects. We only intended this as a way of reusing the stolen Cryptsy funds to benefit all NAV investors, not to take away coins from legitimate investors. If by some miracle Cryptsy is brought back online with all its NAV wallets intact, then we would also gladly swap those coins too, even if it meant the Foundation had to buy back coins it had used for projects.

Hi Pakage,
seems that I've got it wrong, thanks for clarifying this!
Maybe I've skipped those posts or I didn't fully understand it (I'm no native english).

My apologies.

No problem bro! Glad to clear up the confusion It's really easy to miss things, this thread is almost 1000 pages long!

[pakage]

I have updated the website to communicate that we will operate the coin swap wallet infrastructure till 30 September (3 months after the automated Bittrex swap) and then will continue to support manual swapping indefinitely by contacting the development team. To be clear, that would extend to the situation that if by some miracle Cryptsy is brought back online with all its NAV wallets intact, then we would also gladly swap those coins for their legitimate owners as well.

http://www.navcoin.org/upgrade

I've also sent Tristan screen shots of the coin swap wallet we built to show him how easy it is for users to swap. I've also asked him if it is possible to post a notice to the Poloniex notices box for us.

Hopefully he gets on board soon otherwise it is going to be his users who are left in the dust when they can't use all our cool new features!

 

[hashforce101]

It's Dangerous to the NAV image to be running 2 different classes of Blockchain for an extended period of time at the same time.
It's not good for an investor and confidence.
It's not good for any Exchange to dictate terms to a developer and an entire community

We have hard forked the Blockchain in a New direction.
We are inviting Cryptsy and allowing them a chance to slowly leak coins.

So we stand in the same situation as before.

I would remove all doubts and risks. Advice Poloniex of a Deadline and go full steam ahead on NAV 2.0

Everything just seems to drag on and on

[bitwho]

could you please update the info about alcurex exchange. the exchange has moved to alcurex.com

https://alcurex.com/#NAV-BTC

thank you

[pakage]

It's Dangerous to the NAV image to be running 2 different classes of Blockchain for an extended period of time at the same time.
It's not good for an investor and confidence.
It's not good for any Exchange to dictate terms to a developer and an entire community

We have hard forked the Blockchain in a New direction.
We are inviting Cryptsy and allowing them a chance to slowly leak coins.

So we stand in the same situation as before.

I would remove all doubts and risks. Advice Poloniex of a Deadline and go full steam ahead on NAV 2.0

Everything just seems to drag on and on

I agree, it is confusing and we are doing everything in our power to resolve this issue as soon as possible. Whatever the community can do to help would be greatly appreciated.

I've created a slack channel for the community to help organise and mobilise action plans to help resolve this issue.

https://navcoin.slack.com/archives/community-action

This channel will also be a platform for all future community actions which will play an important role in helping raise NAV's profile as we near decentralisation release.

Please join the channel and join the dev & marketing teams in all future community actions.

If you need an invite, just PM me your email.

[pakage]

could you please update the info about alcurex exchange. the exchange has moved to alcurex.com

https://alcurex.com/#NAV-BTC

thank you

Yep, no problem. Will do

[bitwho]

it seems like poloniex doesnt want to update on purpose. perhaps using as an excuse to drop coins with much lesser volume than etherums and other bitcoin 2.0 clones. i dont see why else would they pull that concern. alcurex and bittrex did it. everything went smooth.


also how would their user complain about their coins being upgrated to the working chain as suppose to the older on which is in lifeline thanks to the nav team


wouldn't they have to worry that their users could totally lose their coins once the old coin is not supported anymore by majority of network. heck. there will be so much vulnerability attacks to the old network.

just doesnt make sense. i could be wrong of course.

[pakage]

wouldn't they have to worry that their users could totally lose their coins once the old coin is not supported anymore by majority of network. heck. there will be so much vulnerability attacks to the old network.

This is a very good point and something i will raise with Tristan.

Please everyone tweet @Poloniex and ask them to upgrade to NAV 2.0!

[bitwho]

wouldn't they have to worry that their users could totally lose their coins once the old coin is not supported anymore by majority of network. heck. there will be so much vulnerability attacks to the old network.

This is a very good point and something i will raise with Tristan.

Please everyone tweet @Poloniex and ask them to upgrade to NAV 2.0!

if the network will be so low(difficulty wise) imagine all the double spends..

[shahim]

wouldn't they have to worry that their users could totally lose their coins once the old coin is not supported anymore by majority of network. heck. there will be so much vulnerability attacks to the old network.

This is a very good point and something i will raise with Tristan.

Please everyone tweet @Poloniex and ask them to upgrade to NAV 2.0!

if the network will be so low(difficulty wise) imagine all the double spends..

no chance. there are 50million coins staking in the old swap wallet. There is defenetly no chance people can swap double spend or use them at all.

[Remy_5]

If by some miracle Cryptsy is brought back online with all its NAV wallets intact, then we would also gladly swap those coins too, even if it meant the Foundation had to buy back coins it had used for projects.

As far as I can see, the group of addresses which are probably the old
"hot" wallets of Cryptsy (approx 963K Nav) are always there, still frozen
at 2015-12-06.

I think it's fair to honor the swap requests with no time limit, because besides
Cryptsy there are also others address who are not active for some time, but
that may eventually return.

Also in my opinion, it could demonstrate a commitment and sense of seriousness
in the Foundation, and show a continuity of NAV, which is itself a value.

Personally I still think that the not swapped funds, should not be sold,
but the Foundation should only use the proceeds from the staking, but
this is just my humble opinion and then honestly it does not count.

The members of the Foundation over time may change, and the new
members (or those current still remained there) could found themselves
having to comply with a relevant undertaking given previously, (re-buy at
unknown market price the Nav 2 sold now) without being totally aware of it.


Apart from that, during the sync of the old wallet, I noticed that one of the
peers still was using the wallet 2.05.
I was wondering, the DevTeam, could send via blockchain an "alert" to all the
old version, warning that their wallet is obsolete and must make the swap?
It may have side effects?

I thank you Pakage, for having reported us the concerns of Tristan to make him
an automatic swap, but there are reactions from Polo about the other two options,
I refer to the enlinst Nav 2 in parallel as a new currency, and / or the
simple de-list of Nav 1?

[Remy_5]

Now a pretty technical question for Pakage about the code of Nav 2 wallet:
For a common user, how much is necessary for the proper functioning of the its wallet
the function FindTransactionsByDestination?

I ask this because I think, that the continuous updating of the data used by this
function (which happen mainly in ConnectBlock()) is one of the the main cause of
the great grow of the size of txleveldb directory, and this causes a progressive
significant slowdown during loading/acceptance of the blocks.

If not strictly necessary for common user, I think this updating of should be made optional,
and normally disabled.

[strawie]

Hi guys, I cannot swap my coins because the swapwallet is not syncing for me no matter what I do. Anny suggestions? Nodes?

[sluppy]

If by some miracle Cryptsy is brought back online with all its NAV wallets intact, then we would also gladly swap those coins too, even if it meant the Foundation had to buy back coins it had used for projects.

As far as I can see, the group of addresses which are probably the old
"hot" wallets of Cryptsy (approx 963K Nav) are always there, still frozen
at 2015-12-06.

I think it's fair to honor the swap requests with no time limit, because besides
Cryptsy there are also others address who are not active for some time, but
that may eventually return.

Also in my opinion, it could demonstrate a commitment and sense of seriousness
in the Foundation, and show a continuity of NAV, which is itself a value.

Personally I still think that the not swapped funds, should not be sold,
but the Foundation should only use the proceeds from the staking, but
this is just my humble opinion and then honestly it does not count.

The members of the Foundation over time may change, and the new
members (or those current still remained there) could found themselves
having to comply with a relevant undertaking given previously, (re-buy at
unknown market price the Nav 2 sold now) without being totally aware of it.


Apart from that, during the sync of the old wallet, I noticed that one of the
peers still was using the wallet 2.05.
I was wondering, the DevTeam, could send via blockchain an "alert" to all the
old version, warning that their wallet is obsolete and must make the swap?
It may have side effects?

I thank you Pakage, for having reported us the concerns of Tristan to make him
an automatic swap, but there are reactions from Polo about the other two options,
I refer to the enlinst Nav 2 in parallel as a new currency, and / or the
simple de-list of Nav 1?

No time limit makes no sense you cant expect the devs to keep the old chain around indefinatly that doesn't make sense.

[shahim]

Hi guys, I cannot swap my coins because the swapwallet is not syncing for me no matter what I do. Anny suggestions? Nodes?

addnode=95.183.50.58
addnode=5.230.142.254


Please add these to your wallet. And first Download the blockchain data from the website and unpack to your working directory! It will save you a lot of time.

Last time I tried wallet was synced and ready to go after an hour.

[ninjaboon]

wouldn't they have to worry that their users could totally lose their coins once the old coin is not supported anymore by majority of network. heck. there will be so much vulnerability attacks to the old network.

This is a very good point and something i will raise with Tristan.

Please everyone tweet @Poloniex and ask them to upgrade to NAV 2.0!

twt done, hope they read it

[Remy_5]

I think it's fair to honor the swap requests with no time limit, because besides
Cryptsy there are also others address who are not active for some time, but
that may eventually return.

Also in my opinion, it could demonstrate a commitment and sense of seriousness
in the Foundation, and show a continuity of NAV, which is itself a value.

No time limit makes no sense you cant expect the devs to keep the old chain around indefinatly that doesn't make sense.

The fact that the swap has no time limit, does not mean that the
blockchain should be kept alive at all costs.

Probably we can imagine different scenarios, and I have no idea
what will be done really, then the rest is just my hypothesis.

IMHO, the most important thing in making a swap and that the
applicant must prove, without a shadow of a doubt that:
A) an address is his property.
B) the extent to which it possessed in it.
C) the amount can not be swapped again, transferred to others
or sold elsewhere.

With the current automatic procedure implemented by the DevTeam,
virtually all the work is done by the wallet on the basis of the
blockchain rules in operation, as a normal transaction.

But now as hypothesis, we imagine that the blockchain is totally
blocked and frozen, forever.

With regard to point B, the amount of what is held can still be
checked on the data of blockchain last available block, or on the
basis of a specific block took as a reference, and this is a sure
fact and is verifiable.

With regard to demonstrate possession of an address, this can be
achieved by signing a message with that address.
Every old wallet or other tools, are in grade to verify if the signature
is genuine and it has been made with the key to that address.

Obviously, the same amount can not be transferred, or sold, as
it is impossible, there are no blocks that can distribute the new
transaction. With regard to manually swap twice the same address,
 Well... this is at the attention DevTeam avoid it.

Surely it is a long manual process, awkward and complicated, that
would be worth to do only as a last resort, if and when the blockchain
is no longer able to function.

I do not remember the details, but it seems to me that in the
past swap from SummerCoin to NavajoCoin some addresses have been
carried out in a similar way, manually.

Excuse the length of reply, but it is an imaginary hypothesis, so it must
be described in general at least one bit.

[Sophia Lockhart]

Hi all,

I will be back working on NAV's marketing over the next month. I really enjoyed working with the NAV team to write the press release for our coin swap, and will be working on more articles to distribute over the next week. If anyone has anything they really want to see written about, or any connections to relevant news sites please message me or reply to this post.

Thanks,

Sophia