Malaysia Airlines MH17 Crash: Boeing 777 Crashed in Ukraine Near Russian Border

[minime]

just sad... which side would benefit most from this tragedy?

[bryant.coleman]

Very important.

13 years ago, in 2001 the Ukrainian military had shot down a civilian aircraft, at an altitude of 38,000 feet.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siberia_Airlines_Flight_1812

Ukraine has not paid any compensation for the victims, and the court proceedings are ongoing.

[zolace]

This will be the heck of a mess to sort out!
First of my condolences to the victims and their families. 

For economical and political consequences;
The first issue will be Schipol Airport, it will have a hard time to recover customers to Asia. Most of the passengers will prefer to be re-routed by South, which may cost NL a lot.
The RU-EU relations aren't already that good, if it comes to be shot by Russian SAMs it can be the last drop to put up the Iron Curtain back in place.

Just wonder who was the jackboot that sent that commercial plane down!...

Russia,
I'm going to sit on the fence with this one and wait for an investigation. Incidents like this in a war zone tend to be PR cannon fodder that everyone tries to capitalize on immediately without solid evidence which creates a lot of rumors and bad intel. there are reports that the AFP have seen such missiles in rebels control previously, but is that a rumor spawned by this incident or reliable? Who knows. Certainly not me.

If Ukraine operates these weapons systems as well, could the pro-Russian separatists have stolen one of them and used it?

Sounds like a reasonable possibility to me as well. I'm not familiar enough with the conflict in Ukraine to comment on the likelihood of it though. It's rather outside of my area.

[Cicero2.0]

This is tragic. People's lives destroyed because of bad leadership in both countries. I doubt we ever get a clear picture of how this happened and who is responsible.  

[Rigon]

At least they know where it is this time. I wonder how long CNN will cover it for. ....remember a few months ago another airplane who was going to Malaysia disappear

[Paya]

No. Boeing 777 flying at 10,200 metres (35,000 feet) can't be shot down with MANPADS such as Igla or Strela. It requires either sophisticated SAM batteries or air-to-air missiles fired from fighter jets.

Few days ago 247crypto provided evidence that rebels have come into the possesion of Buk medium range SAMs capable to hit aircraft-sized targets up to 25 km altitude:

http://rusvesna.su/news/1404041521
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=694273.0

[247crypto]

Is some expert on the place to find damages and proofs?

[247crypto]

No. Boeing 777 flying at 10,200 metres (35,000 feet) can't be shot down with MANPADS such as Igla or Strela. It requires either sophisticated SAM batteries or air-to-air missiles fired from fighter jets.

Few days ago 247crypto provided evidence that rebels have come into the possesion of Buk medium range SAMs capable to hit aircraft-sized targets up to 25 km altitude:

http://rusvesna.su/news/1404041521
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=694273.0

See, where is Dontesk and where is Snezhnoe.

[Nemo1024]

Very important.

13 years ago, in 2001 the Ukrainian military had shot down a civilian aircraft, at an altitude of 38,000 feet.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siberia_Airlines_Flight_1812

Ukraine has not paid any compensation for the victims, and the court proceedings are ongoing.

So, repeat offence.

Ukrainian army has confirmed that russian terrorists used russian anti-aircraft system but failed, there was an ukrainian military plane flying near the malaysian one. Simple mistake, great anti-aircraft btw.

What a bullshit? Pro-russian terrorists has gotten russian anti-aircraft system(a lot of proofs), as i said before they just failed, they wanted to shoot down ukrainian plane of military which was flying near that region... This is what happens when monkeys get modern weapon.

You actually think Russia is behind this? Why would Putin purposely do something to hurt the appearances of the rebels? It's more likely that the Ukrainians shot it down to blame Russia.

Pretty much this. The only ones who will get the blame from the "world community" will either be the freedom fighters or Russia. The only ones who gain from this are US and West-Ukraine. My bet is that someone in Washington decided to repeat the Sakhalin incident.

Some news on the topic:

Black boxes have been discovered. Representatives of the republic say they intend to hand them over to Moscow for analysis.:
http://www.gazeta.ru/social/news/2014/07/17/n_6319225.shtml

Approximately 100 bodies discovered around the crash site:
http://lenta.ru/news/2014/07/17/boeing777/

Russian Aeroflot and Transaero, as well as French Air France and German Lufthansa stopped flights over Ukraine:
http://lenta.ru/news/2014/07/17/luft/

Donetsk People's Republic puts the blame for downing of the plane on Kiev. They don't have weaponry to down anything at that altitude. They've sent officials to the crash tite:
http://www.interfax.ru/world/386425

There were 9 British on board:
http://www.interfax.ru/world/386446

Ukrainian Ministry of Internal Affairs reports of over 300 dead in the crash:
http://ria.ru/world/20140717/1016435672.html

President Putin's plane might have been the target for Ukrainian missile - sources
http://rt.com/news/173672-malaysia-plane-crash-putin/

“I can say that Putin’s plane and the Malaysian Boeing intersected at the same point and the same echelon. That was close to Warsaw on 330-m echelon at the height of 10,100 meters. The presidential jet was there at 16:21 Moscow time and the Malaysian aircraft - 15:44 Moscow time,” a source told the news agency on condition of anonymity.

[niothor]

Nemo ,between you flood of links you missed one

The FACT that Igor Girkin claimed just after a few minutes of the crash that they have taken down another plane right near the crash site.

Also fact that they taken the post down when the news about the 777 hit the media.

[Nemo1024]

And the altitude of that plane was....

In any case, let's wait for the black boxes and a statement from that Spanish flight controller....

I just hope Ukrainians will not try to destroy the evidence.

By the way, a bit of a coincidence that half an hour before the disaster, the chief of Ukrainian National Security published information that resistance came into possession of "weapons that can shoot down planes at hight altitudes" .
http://rusvesna.su/news/1405618099

[sickhouse]

This is so sick... No wrords this needs to end.

[247crypto]

https://twitter.com/spainbuca/statuses/489813837013848065

[Paya]

Whoever is responsible for this tragedy, it sounds almost unreal to me that Kiev did not close the airspace above the east Ukraine where their air force is conducting intensive combat operations and aircrafts are being damaged or shot down almost on daily bases.

[247crypto]

Nemo ,between you flood of links you missed one

The FACT that Igor Girkin claimed just after a few minutes of the crash that they have taken down another plane right near the crash site.

Also fact that they taken the post down when the news about the 777 hit the media.

There is a live youtube of the crash on uk newspaper site
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/flight-mh17-russian-rebels-shoot-3876235
and also his claim which was later removed

1) http://rusvesna.su/news/1405607531 news is still there.




2) Girkin have NO facebook/livejournal/VK or other blog.

[niothor]

Nemo ,between you flood of links you missed one

The FACT that Igor Girkin claimed just after a few minutes of the crash that they have taken down another plane right near the crash site.

Also fact that they taken the post down when the news about the 777 hit the media.

There is a live youtube of the crash on uk newspaper site
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/flight-mh17-russian-rebels-shoot-3876235
and also his claim which was later removed

1) http://rusvesna.su/news/1405607531 news is still there.




2) Girkin have NO facebook/livejournal/VK or other blog.

Yes he had one , he has posted a lot of crap out of it.

You pro-russian spammers are in such a deep shit I wonder how you have the nerve to post anything anymore on this board.

You have quoted this guy a hundred times with your spammy links and out of the blue you're one step away of claiming that he doesn't even exists.

How about those rockets you were so proud of it , out of the blue again there are none.

FACT:

The only party that claimed doing something were the rebels , they were the only ones saying they have shot down a planetoday in that area and cheering while 200 innocent lives were destroyed.

Really... gtfo of this board you broken propaganda machine.

[Paya]

I don't think that we should jump to conclusions and start throwing shit before professional investigation has been done. Only one who should take their part of responsibility right now is Ukraine which guaranteed the safety and kept this part of their airspace open for public traffic, despite the fact that it's a very dangerous zone. Rebels, who control the crash site, called for ceasefire so the investigators may come and begin to work as soon as possible.

One thing is for sure: rebels did not have motives to intentionally target this particular, or any other foreign civilian aircraft - if they've really shot it down, it was a mistake.

[247crypto]

2) Girkin have NO facebook/livejournal/VK or other blog.

Yes he had one , he has posted a lot of crap out of it.

The only place, where he is MODERATOR is a forum.

[niothor]

https://web.archive.org/web/20140717155906/http://vk.com/strelkov_info?w=wall-57424472_7256

[247crypto]

https://web.archive.org/web/20140717155906/http://vk.com/strelkov_info?w=wall-57424472_7256

This VK page is not owned by mr. Girkin. Just listen the title "news from activsts ecc."

fake "news" reported:

 фaльшивым являeтcя пaблик BКoнтaктe «Cвoдки oт Cтpeлкoвa Игopя Ивaнoвичa». B нeм paзмeщeнo мнoгo peaльныx cooбщeний oт Cтpeлкoвa (paнee oпyбликoвaнныx нa фopyмe кoллeкциoнepoв), нo иcпoльзyeтcя тaкжe и для вбpoca фaльшивoк: тaк чepeз пaблик 4 июля 2014 гoдa былo зaпyщeнo фaльшивoe cooбщeниe, чтo якoбы ecть инфopмaция oт MO PФ, чтo PФ гoтoвo к ввeдeнию бecпoлeтнoй зoны нaд Дoнeцкoй и Лyгaнcкoй oблacтями и нyжeн тoлькo пpикaз Пyтинa
Пoдpoбнee: http://www.wikireality.ru/wiki/%D0%98%D0%B3%D0%BE%D1%80%D1%8C_%D0%A1%D1%82%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%BB%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%B2  

http://www.wikireality.ru/wiki/%D0%98%D0%B3%D0%BE%D1%80%D1%8C_%D0%A1%D1%82%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%BB%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%B2