Malaysia Airlines MH17 Crash: Boeing 777 Crashed in Ukraine Near Russian Border

[bryant.coleman]

http://www.parlamentnilisty.cz/arena/monitor/Rusko-prinasi-tvrde-obvineni-Ukrajinske-raketove-systemy-byly-v-chodu-kdyz-spadlo-letadlo-Zachytili-jsme-to-327457

Seems you are losing the propaganda war at the moment.

So you mean that the US / NATO is winning the propaganda war? I am not that sure. As Balthazar posted earlier, most of the non-British Europeans think that the Ukrainian Armed Forces were behind this attack.

[Balthazar]

Making any strong statements without investigation doesn't make any sense, and side of "winners" doesn't matter here. Unlike propaganda warriors (like 247crypto & his western counterparts) I'd prefer to wait for the results of the investigation.

[Grinder]

As Balthazar posted earlier, most of the non-British Europeans think that the Ukrainian Armed Forces were behind this attack.

No, they don't. He and his propaganda friends only made it look like that for a short while.

[deisik]

Making any strong statements without investigation doesn't make any sense, and side of "winners" doesn't matter here. Unlike propaganda warriors (like 247crypto & his western counterparts) I'd prefer to wait for the results of the investigation.

It is almost evident now that there will be no definitive results from the investigations (if at all). Some material witnesses are already missing...

[hologram]

Funny people trust UN who is some scary beginning of a world government... We must dissolve this stuff.

[Paya]

It is almost evident now that there will be no definitive results from the investigations (if at all). Some material witnesses are already missing...

They need to find remains of the missile, and yes, that won't be easy. Even if they do, it can easily be a dead end because both sides are using same weapons. Also, there are no clear front lines there. So assuming that American or Russian satellites/radars picked up exact location of launch site (which I doubt - we should already know about it), again it may prove nothing.

For example, Russians said that they detected Buk observational radar being active for a while 30 km south of Donetsk, roughly at the time when aircraft has been hit. But they did not "see" missile launch, nor it can be said for sure which side was in control of that place.

[Swordsoffreedom]

A complicated issue that needs time to sort itself out
Hopefully the investigation sheds some light onto this incident and is not tinged by political strife between two states.
(Although a few incidents seem to come to mind of similar airplane crashes in history can't remember which ones but think I saw a few Mayday episodes like this)

[BCEmporium]

And about this Ukrainian x Russian thing, by looking deeply into History we get the Slavs Gran-Duchy of Moscow against the Slavs of the Kingdom of Kiev; in other words, whatever those guys are doing there is called fratricide, taken Russians and Ukrainians are based upon the very same people.

Methinks, you're confusing time epochs. When there were "the Slavs of the Kingdom of Kiev" (Kievan Rus'), there hadn't yet been the Grand Duchy of Moscow (the latter established in 1283). And vice versa, when there was the Grand Duchy of Moscow, there had no longer been Kievan Rus (the latter demolished in 1240 by Tatars)...

If my History books are right, the Grand Duchy of Moscow is where the Kievian Rus' Slavs regroup, that make you guys the very same people and that's still fratricide.
On some other events, like the Ukrainian genocide, it was about Stalin, who didn't gave Russians an easy time too. That goes around an assassin up to kill anyone who was against him, regardless of origin.

[TheIrishman]

MH17 victims put into refrigerated train bound for unknown destination

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/20/mh17-victims-train-torez-ukraine

<< International monitors arrive in Torez to inspect wagons accompanied by convoy of heavily armed and nervous rebels. >>

[bryant.coleman]

As Balthazar posted earlier, most of the non-British Europeans think that the Ukrainian Armed Forces were behind this attack.

No, they don't. He and his propaganda friends only made it look like that for a short while.

Hmmm... I have noticed it. Now 78% says Proruští separatisté, while only 19% has voted for Ukrajinská armáda. Funny how the opinion polls are twisted through DDoS and other means. 

[BCEmporium]

As Balthazar posted earlier, most of the non-British Europeans think that the Ukrainian Armed Forces were behind this attack.

No, they don't. He and his propaganda friends only made it look like that for a short while.

Hmmm... I have noticed it. Now 78% says Proruští separatisté, while only 19% has voted for Ukrajinská armáda. Funny how the opinion polls are twisted through DDoS and other means. 

You don't need opinion polls on a fact! You just need to investigate and get to who did it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjuGCJJUGsg

[hologram]

You don't need opinion polls on a fact! You just need to investigate and get to who did it.

As greenpeace said:

"the important is not the truth but what people think it is" (i translate from French so sorry if it's not exactly that in English)

[Nemo1024]

Funny people trust UN who is some scary beginning of a world government... We must dissolve this stuff.

Hmm... That might be one of the first of your statements, where I agree with you.

[Nemo1024]

And about this Ukrainian x Russian thing, by looking deeply into History we get the Slavs Gran-Duchy of Moscow against the Slavs of the Kingdom of Kiev; in other words, whatever those guys are doing there is called fratricide, taken Russians and Ukrainians are based upon the very same people.

Methinks, you're confusing time epochs. When there were "the Slavs of the Kingdom of Kiev" (Kievan Rus'), there hadn't yet been the Grand Duchy of Moscow (the latter established in 1283). And vice versa, when there was the Grand Duchy of Moscow, there had no longer been Kievan Rus (the latter demolished in 1240 by Tatars)...

BCEmporium, I was going to reply to you along the lines what deisik wrote. Adding only that we need not look that far in this case. This is indeed a civil war, or fratricide, as you put it, and it's a continuation of what was started in 1917-1920. The matters are further complicated in that there is not homogeneous Ukrainian army. There are conscripts who are not too keen to fight against their kin, there are private armies of Kolomojskij, Klichko, Avakov and their ilk, and there are ideologically brainwashed fascists of the Right Sector/National Guard, and finally there are Galicians, who see themselves more as part of the Austro-Hungarian/Polish world. In many cases they act at cross-purposes. So the shooting might well have been done by one of such military wings without a "go" from Kiev.

[niothor]

And about this Ukrainian x Russian thing, by looking deeply into History we get the Slavs Gran-Duchy of Moscow against the Slavs of the Kingdom of Kiev; in other words, whatever those guys are doing there is called fratricide, taken Russians and Ukrainians are based upon the very same people.

Methinks, you're confusing time epochs. When there were "the Slavs of the Kingdom of Kiev" (Kievan Rus'), there hadn't yet been the Grand Duchy of Moscow (the latter established in 1283). And vice versa, when there was the Grand Duchy of Moscow, there had no longer been Kievan Rus (the latter demolished in 1240 by Tatars)...

BCEmporium, I was going to reply to you along the lines what deisik wrote. Adding only that we need not look that far in this case. This is indeed a civil war, or fratricide, as you put it, and it's a continuation of what was started in 1917-1920. The matters are further complicated in that there is not homogeneous Ukrainian army. There are conscripts who are not too keen to fight against their kin, there are private armies of Kolomojskij, Klichko, Avakov and their ilk, and there are ideologically brainwashed fascists of the Right Sector/National Guard, and finally there are Galicians, who see themselves more as part of the Austro-Hungarian/Polish world. In many cases they act at cross-purposes. So the shooting might well have been done by one of such military wings without a "go" from Kiev.

And as you have started to write lately , you are seeing the black sheep only in the other yard not in yours also .

[stompix]

Is that a black box?

Separatist forces were also blocking access to the site for Ukrainian investigators and international observers and searching for lorries to transport the wreckage to Russia, the statement claimed.
An AFP crew at the scene of the crash today said that armed rebels were preventing journalists from accessing the site and shot in the air to warn them back.
One rebel commander said that dozens of bodies had been removed to the morgue in Donetsk as rescue workers under their supervision continued to collect body parts.
“27 bodies were taken away” this morning, the insurgent commander said, refusing to give his name.
A group of international observers from the Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) told AFP that they hoped to return to the crash scene Saturday afternoon after only being granted very limited access to the site by armed rebels a day earlier.

[mladen00]

BUSTED! Ukraine Caught Trying to 'Frame Russia' for Shooting Down Malaysia Flight MH17!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28MrASx-RiM#t=38

[niothor]

BUSTED! Ukraine Caught Trying to 'Frame Russia' for Shooting Down Malaysia Flight MH17!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28MrASx-RiM#t=38

Lame....
Anyone can fake that.

First the video had 2 mins and something the capture says that the "fake" video is only 1 min 50 long

LAMEEEEEEEEEEEEE

1) You can see that his video editor is in russian (lol)
2) Nobody had access to the original (yet)
3) comments disabled
4) lots of pro Russian and anti american videos from that account

[Balthazar]

As Balthazar posted earlier, most of the non-British Europeans think that the Ukrainian Armed Forces were behind this attack.

No, they don't. He and his propaganda friends only made it look like that for a short while.

Next time I'd suggest you to think some time before posting such things. I understand your habit of being rude person, but here in Russia your message could be a reason for administrative case and pretty painful fine. I have no idea is there any punishment for defamation in your local Administrative Code, but I suppose that any reasonable person should be able to be polite, even without any help from law enforcement officers. Being rude is not an option anywhere.

[247crypto]

Unlike propaganda warriors like 247crypto

I put URL on youtube videos usually and WITH NO COMMENTS from me, nothing more.