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Author Topic: Malaysia Airlines MH17 Crash: Boeing 777 Crashed in Ukraine Near Russian Border  (Read 51910 times)
hologram
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July 20, 2014, 04:02:46 PM
 #261

but here in Russia your message could be a reason for administrative case and pretty painful fine. I have no idea is there any punishment for defamation in your local Administrative Code.

smell freedom of speech  Grin

247crypto
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July 20, 2014, 04:42:25 PM
 #262

but here in Russia your message could be a reason for administrative case and pretty painful fine. I have no idea is there any punishment for defamation in your local Administrative Code.

smell freedom of speech  Grin

http://public.od.ua/news/2014/07/19/v-nikolaeve-osuzhden-separatist/

Are You able to use google translator or babylon translator?

Grinder
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July 20, 2014, 04:46:10 PM
 #263

Next time I'd suggest you to think some time before posting such things. I understand your habit of being rude person, but here in Russia your message could be a reason for administrative case and pretty painful fine. I have no idea is there any punishment for defamation in your local Administrative Code, but I suppose that any reasonable person should be able to be polite, even without any help from law enforcement officers. Being rude is not an option anywhere.

Fortunately I live in a part of the world where we have freedom of speech, and where journalists who reveal inconvenient truths about those in power aren't fired or even killed, so it's ok.
hologram
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July 20, 2014, 04:48:30 PM
 #264

AMA of an Ukrainian in rebel zone:

http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/2b72ir/iama_ukrainian_who_currently_lives_on_the/

247crypto
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July 20, 2014, 04:48:52 PM
 #265


Fortunately I live in a part of the world where we have freedom of speech, and where journalists who reveal inconvenient truths about those in power aren't fired or even killed, so it's ok.

Are you talking about https://wikileaks.org/ ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chelsea_Manning

Grinder
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July 20, 2014, 04:53:09 PM
 #266

Are you talking about https://wikileaks.org/ ?

I'm not sure how I would go about living in a website.
hologram
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July 20, 2014, 05:02:17 PM
Last edit: July 20, 2014, 05:14:05 PM by hologram
 #267


Funny, your government suck every time and you don't take care but the few time some western government don't respect right of their citizen you will remember forever...

Double standard ?

here i can wear a t-shirt with "Hollande resignation" written on. Can you wear on with "Putin resignation" on ? Yes or no ?

libivan
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July 20, 2014, 08:19:29 PM
 #268


Funny, your government suck every time and you don't take care but the few time some western government don't respect right of their citizen you will remember forever...

Double standard ?

here i can wear a t-shirt with "Hollande resignation" written on. Can you wear on with "Putin resignation" on ? Yes or no ?

Well, actually it seems that no government is respecting individual freedoms nowadays. We see disrespect to citizens all the time, from each and every government, so, I wouldn't waste my time to naively defend either sides of the official stories.

There's no such thing as free press anywhere when it's clear that the main news vehicles are always defending their governments propaganda with few (if any) exceptions.

(In case of radio/TV, for example) As long as official government issued licence is mandatory, there will be a reason for this lack of objectivity. But there are still plenty of other reasons for the corrupt journalism everywhere.

To have access to plural points of view, in such scenario, is the best option, as long as each individual is capable to clearly reason and form their own opinion. Free and honest talks and discussions are very important here.

The fact is, the corrupt governors all conspire, all the time, lying to their citizens. That's the way it is. Maybe it was easier to their propaganda machines to brainwash the people in the past, but in today's world, with the Internet, and being so easy and instant, the communication and the spread of "real" information. They have more and more troubles.

No one can be sure it there's a conspiracy plot going on, but there is never enough attention, questioning and caution, especially if we turn to History and learn with all the other awful opportunities that governments had to create justifications and forge enemies in order to justify their own evil intentions. So many are the examples, not only the 9/11 WTC with all it's badly told story (that we all have "witnessed"):

Once the Foreign Secretary of England, Sir Edward Grey asked Woodrow Wilson's top adviser and mentor, Colonel Edward House, “What will America do if the Germans sink an ocean liner with American passengers on board?” and House answered, “I believe that a flame of indignation would sweep the United States and that by itself would be sufficient to carry us into the war.” Soon afterwards, the Lusitania sinking, with 1,200 killed, including 128 Americans, was then the "justification" for the US government to openly enter WWI.

BTW, with the fiat ponzi scheme implosion approaching, it seems that a "good" war is becoming necessary for them.
Nemo1024
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July 20, 2014, 08:20:32 PM
 #269

And about this Ukrainian x Russian thing, by looking deeply into History we get the Slavs Gran-Duchy of Moscow against the Slavs of the Kingdom of Kiev; in other words, whatever those guys are doing there is called fratricide, taken Russians and Ukrainians are based upon the very same people.

Methinks, you're confusing time epochs. When there were "the Slavs of the Kingdom of Kiev" (Kievan Rus'), there hadn't yet been the Grand Duchy of Moscow (the latter established in 1283). And vice versa, when there was the Grand Duchy of Moscow, there had no longer been Kievan Rus (the latter demolished in 1240 by Tatars)... Cool

BCEmporium, I was going to reply to you along the lines what deisik wrote. Adding only that we need not look that far in this case. This is indeed a civil war, or fratricide, as you put it, and it's a continuation of what was started in 1917-1920. The matters are further complicated in that there is not homogeneous Ukrainian army. There are conscripts who are not too keen to fight against their kin, there are private armies of Kolomojskij, Klichko, Avakov and their ilk, and there are ideologically brainwashed fascists of the Right Sector/National Guard, and finally there are Galicians, who see themselves more as part of the Austro-Hungarian/Polish world. In many cases they act at cross-purposes. So the shooting might well have been done by one of such military wings without a "go" from Kiev.

And as you have started to write lately , you are seeing the black sheep only in the other yard not in yours also Smiley.

In what way, can you be more precise? Do you have examples of freedom fighters from Novorossia shelling Kiev and Lvov or killing civilians across Ivano-Frankovsk? No. Because they are fighting a purely defensive war, protecting their homeland. I do not intend to invent black sheep just for the sake of political correctness and balance.

The greatest fear the leaders of self-defence forces have is that some group, not reporting the chain of command of the republican army might pose as art of it and create provocations. from previous reports I know that internally the freedom fighters have a strict order, and any looting or marauding is severely punished, up to by death.

By the way, I don't think that the plane was shot down by the regular Ukrainian army. It's more likely the work of one of the private bands that I mentioned above.

“Dark times lie ahead of us and there will be a time when we must choose between what is easy and what is right.”
“We are only as strong as we are united, as weak as we are divided.”
“It is important to fight and fight again, and keep fighting, for only then can evil be kept at bay, though never quite eradicated.”
hologram
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July 20, 2014, 08:36:02 PM
 #270


Sure every government suck but we can hardly say north Korea is like Switzerland, so we can try to compare freedom of speech between France and Russia.

247crypto
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July 20, 2014, 08:58:16 PM
 #271


Funny, your government suck every time

Quote
A group of the world's leading press freedom bodies is calling on prime minister David Cameron to distance himself from the investigation into The Guardian over the leaks by the NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden.

The seven organisations also want Cameron to urge parliament to repeal the statute that underlies the royal charter on press regulation.

Signatories to a letter sent to Cameron today include the World Association of Newspaper and News Publishers (WAN-IFRA), the New York-based Committee to Protect Journalists (CPJ) and the International Press Institute (IPI).
http://www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2014/feb/18/press-freedom-theguardian

Quote
Federal investigators looking into disclosures of classified information about a cyberoperation that targeted Iran’s nuclear program have increased pressure on current and former senior government officials suspected of involvement, according to people familiar with the investigation.

The inquiry, which was started by Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. last June, is examining leaks about a computer virus developed jointly by the United States and Israel that damaged nuclear centrifuges at Iran’s primary uranium enrichment plant. The U.S. code name for the operation was Olympic Games, but the wider world knew the mysterious computer worm as Stuxnet.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/fbi-is-increasing-pressure-on-suspects-in-stuxnet-inquiry/2013/01/26/f475095e-6733-11e2-93e1-475791032daf_story.html

hologram
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July 20, 2014, 09:00:03 PM
 #272

has nothing to do with my point.

247crypto
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July 20, 2014, 09:08:17 PM
 #273

Can you wear on with "Putin resignation" on ? Yes or no ?

You understand what is ethnic cleansing in Ukraine?
It has nothing to do with Putin.

....

What does ICAO in this moment?

hologram
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July 20, 2014, 09:18:53 PM
 #274

You understand what is ethnic cleansing in Ukraine?

We talked about freedom of speech, so yes or no ?

247crypto
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July 20, 2014, 11:14:43 PM
 #275

You understand what is ethnic cleansing in Ukraine?

We talked about freedom of speech, so yes or no ?

Open a new topic about.

BCEmporium
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July 21, 2014, 01:23:24 AM
 #276

You understand what is ethnic cleansing in Ukraine?

Ethnic cleansing?!
Let's see, we are 5 guys at my office:
1 is married to a local woman - 1 daughter
1 is married to a Russian woman - 1 son
1 is married to a Polish woman - 1 daughter
1 is married to an American woman - 1 son+1 daughter
I was married to an Indonesian woman - 2 daughters (and they used to go by Amsterdam - Kuala Lumpur - Jakarta - Surabaya when going to visit their grandparents, so you can imagine how much of a "close call" this was to me!) - currently with an Angolan woman.

And this is a single small office, many of my remaining friends are married to other nationalities women and men. Mexicans, Brazilians, Ukrainians, and so on... we can make a mini-UN at any friends dinner.
A person still thinking about "ethnic cleansings" by 2014 is probably living under a rock! The World is a global place nowadays.

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247crypto
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July 21, 2014, 01:39:07 AM
 #277


A person still thinking about "ethnic cleansings" by 2014 is probably living under a rock! The World is a global place nowadays.


"...for us Ukrainians the only question is how to remove them from our territory without allowing them to take chunks of it with them
....
We cannot live together with them after this war; they will either be killed or pushed out...".

E-valuta
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July 21, 2014, 02:28:33 AM
 #278

You understand what is ethnic cleansing in Ukraine?

Ethnic cleansing?!
Let's see, we are 5 guys at my office:
1 is married to a local woman - 1 daughter
1 is married to a Russian woman - 1 son
1 is married to a Polish woman - 1 daughter
1 is married to an American woman - 1 son+1 daughter
I was married to an Indonesian woman - 2 daughters (and they used to go by Amsterdam - Kuala Lumpur - Jakarta - Surabaya when going to visit their grandparents, so you can imagine how much of a "close call" this was to me!) - currently with an Angolan woman.

And this is a single small office, many of my remaining friends are married to other nationalities women and men. Mexicans, Brazilians, Ukrainians, and so on... we can make a mini-UN at any friends dinner.

Is Your Office experiencing mass slaughter of civilians?



Quote
A person still thinking about "ethnic cleansings" by 2014 is probably living under a rock! The World is a global place nowadays.

Are you really that stupid? Hmm.. let's see: 80% of world lives in more or less homogenic populated areas/cities/countries - guy on bitcointalk thinks his Office of 5 different nationalities is the world norm.  Undecided

dadugan
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July 21, 2014, 03:08:04 AM
 #279


Are you really that stupid? Hmm.. let's see: 80% of world lives in more or less homogenic populated areas/cities/countries - guy on bitcointalk thinks his Office of 5 different nationalities is the world norm.  Undecided


Yes. US and Europe experiment on multi-culture society failed miserable.
libivan
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July 21, 2014, 03:21:02 AM
 #280


It's so sad. Such a beautiful country and culture. Ukraine does not deserve that.
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