[XMR] rpietila Monero Economics thread

[smooth]

Going all in in on one coin rather than spreading out your investments is what
sort of contradicts and violates what you said in your first post doesn't it ?

I agree with you that diversification among a number of good assets is a good idea.

I disagree that you should buy a lot of crap just to spread your money around. 

Approximately 99.9% of altcoins are crap in my opinion. I own a few of them. Very few. Someone who looks at this differently than I do or has less time to study might well decide that only zero or one can be identified as not being crap.

I will diversify to others if I find any I view as having strong potential, but those are very few and far between.

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[rpietila]

The strategy to buy every alt that (for practical reasons) exceeds a given threshold, would have been somewhat profitable during the recent Bitcoin downturn when BTC declined -34% and TOP-16 alts only -17%.

If you buy relative to the coins' marketcaps, this requires you to hedge 5% of the Bitcoin stash to other coins, hardly excessive.

The reason I haven't done it is that I don't want to invest in something I don't like, just because I "should" mathematically do it. (Well cash is the exception, I always keep some although don't like that it is just a receipt of someone else's debt slavery.)

It's too early to say much about the staying power of altcoins. In 2014, despite BTC ailing, not many TOP-10 coins have bitten the dust.

I'll continue in the line that if I invest, I do minimum 1% of my BTC stash, which also rules out very small coins, since my intention is not to become the top owner. The liquidity must allow for divesting the stash if need be without driving the price to the ground. In other words, any coin that does not have at least BTC100 bid support near market is uninteresting to me. 

[iCEBREAKER]

If you buy relative to the coins' marketcaps, this requires you to hedge 5% of the Bitcoin stash to other coins, hardly excessive.

The reason I haven't done it is that I don't want to invest in something I don't like, just because I "should" mathematically do it. (Well cash is the exception, I always keep some although don't like that it is just a receipt of someone else's debt slavery.)

It's too early to say much about the staying power of altcoins. In 2014, despite BTC ailing, not many TOP-10 coins have bitten the dust.

iCEBREAKER's Razor:  Fiat is the ultimate shitcoin alt scam.

[paulsonnumismatics]

The strategy to buy every alt that (for practical reasons) exceeds a given threshold, would have been somewhat profitable during the recent Bitcoin downturn when BTC declined -34% and TOP-16 alts only -17%.

If you buy relative to the coins' marketcaps, this requires you to hedge 5% of the Bitcoin stash to other coins, hardly excessive.

The reason I haven't done it is that I don't want to invest in something I don't like, just because I "should" mathematically do it. (Well cash is the exception, I always keep some although don't like that it is just a receipt of someone else's debt slavery.)

It's too early to say much about the staying power of altcoins. In 2014, despite BTC ailing, not many TOP-10 coins have bitten the dust.

I'll continue in the line that if I invest, I do minimum 1% of my BTC stash, which also rules out very small coins, since my intention is not to become the top owner. The liquidity must allow for divesting the stash if need be without driving the price to the ground. In other words, any coin that does not have at least BTC100 bid support near market is uninteresting to me. 

100 BTC on every high volume traded alt can be a hell of an investment :-) Also, that implies that youre one of the Merry 10K+ BTC owners ;-)
How the coming of new coins can affect your strategy? Ethereum, Maidsafe, the SuperNet NXT thingy... Do you think that the adoption, ie, flow of fiat into crypto, will always be bigger than the arrival of new coins that siphon that influx?
Hope i made myself clear, english is not my mother language.

[superresistant]

If you buy relative to the coins' marketcaps, this requires you to hedge 5% of the Bitcoin stash to other coins, hardly excessive.
The reason I haven't done it is that I don't want to invest in something I don't like, just because I "should" mathematically do it. (Well cash is the exception, I always keep some although don't like that it is just a receipt of someone else's debt slavery.)
It's too early to say much about the staying power of altcoins. In 2014, despite BTC ailing, not many TOP-10 coins have bitten the dust.

iCEBREAKER's Razor:  Fiat is the ultimate shitcoin alt scam.

Haha so true but we need a little bit to buy the croissants.

[aminorex]

If you buy relative to the coins' marketcaps, this requires you to hedge 5% of the Bitcoin stash to other coins, hardly excessive.
The reason I haven't done it is that I don't want to invest in something I don't like, just because I "should" mathematically do it. (Well cash is the exception, I always keep some although don't like that it is just a receipt of someone else's debt slavery.)
It's too early to say much about the staying power of altcoins. In 2014, despite BTC ailing, not many TOP-10 coins have bitten the dust.

iCEBREAKER's Razor:  Fiat is the ultimate shitcoin alt scam.

Haha so true but we need a little bit to buy the croissants.

when people stop tolerating slavery, it will end.  no croissant is world the human suffering caused by debt-based money.

[superresistant]

when people stop tolerating slavery, it will end.  no croissant is worth the human suffering caused by debt-based money.

I totally agree with you but we are alone.

The vast majority of people want to be spoiled slaves.
They want to be told what to do, they are terrified by choices.
They vote for a government that make them dream with promises and offer them dept and illusion of security.

[iCEBREAKER]

iCEBREAKER's Razor:  Fiat is the ultimate shitcoin alt scam.

Haha so true but we need a little bit to buy the croissants.

when people stop tolerating slavery, it will end.  no croissant is world the human suffering caused by debt-based money.

I totally agree with you but we are alone.

The vast majority of people want to be spoiled slaves.
They want to be told what to do, they are terrified by choices.
They vote for a government that make them dream with promises and offer them dept and illusion of security.

The problem is that croissant eating surrender monkeys are allowed to vote and even hold office, despite not paying taxes or being eligible for military service.

Bitcoin and Monero offer solutions to this problem, if we apply their technology effectively....   

[katlogic]

I'll continue in the line that if I invest, I do minimum 1% of my BTC stash, which also rules out very small coins, since my intention is not to become the top owner. The liquidity must allow for divesting the stash if need be without driving the price to the ground. In other words, any coin that does not have at least BTC100 bid support near market is uninteresting to me. 

Small time XMR miner here. I understand that you're walking a tightrope, a bit like a central bank here - if you invest too much, people will cry bloody murder as it will carbon copy the ghastly GINI of Bitcoin. But if it's too little, XMR will meet the sad fate of BCN.

Ideally, I'd love to see XMR keep hovering around $1 until it sees enough adoption you lose the power to individually manipulate the price.

Anyhow, thank you for being honest about it (assuming my perception is correct).

[aminorex]

There is a simple solution to bad Gini -- if you hold the dominant portion:  Distribute it.

[rpietila]

There is a simple solution to bad Gini -- if you hold the dominant portion:  Distribute it.

I am about to build a grand palace in Crypto Kingdom. My estimate of the labor cost alone is 300 XMR. It will go to Labor pool, and becomes distributed to all the players in the game. Crypto Kingdom uses XMR as the ingame currency.

[katlogic]

There is a simple solution to bad Gini -- if you hold the dominant portion:  Distribute it.

You think that major bagholders would give majority of their wealth away for free? That is very rare.

Can't see how would that work on massive scale to have any effect on GINI. Africa and Nepal remain poor no matter how Melissa Gates tries

If you mean market exchange, net worth is preserved, only assets backing it may change hands. Certainly no significant transfer of wealth.

Mining is different, however - the longer the period where average joe can mine (ie no industrialized mining), the better GINI should be in the end.

[smooth]

Mining is different, however - the longer the period where average joe can mine (ie no industrialized mining), the better GINI should be in the end.

I'm fairly convinced that duration of mining matters for adoption, because with newly-minted coins being created on a continual basis and added to available supply, the market price of the coin is kept lower relative to adoption. Therefore the incentive to buy (including acquire in trade) is strong and persists. You don't need to convince someone who already has as much as he wants to part with some (at a higher price).

I'm not convinced that who specifically mines matters at all. If I mine myself that is not really any different then if I delegate that to someone better than I am at it and pay a small premium for that service.

[1echo]

shame mintpal stole so many XMR and hes dropping it

[saddambitcoin]

shame mintpal stole so many XMR and hes dropping it

i heard that mintpal didnt migrate XMR to v2 and they have found access to their old wallet.

is it true? i'll wait for statdude to confirm.

[smooth]

shame mintpal stole so many XMR and hes dropping it

i heard that mintpal didnt migrate XMR to v2 and they have found access to their old wallet.

is it true? i'll wait for statdude to confirm.

I wouldn't believe a word they say until the coins are actually returned the customers. I know for a fact they lied about trying to reach the Monero core team "for help with their wallet." They never tried to reach us.

I do hope everyone gets paid though.

[superresistant]

shame mintpal stole so many XMR and hes dropping it

They are smart, they use multiple accounts to dump XMR day after day.
Last time sharexchance did the same, they've been spotted trying to dump all at once and funds where blocked by Busoni from Poloniex.
Also XMR is really anonymous so no chance of tracing back the funds.

[nakaone]

well it will be funny to see how they try to justify that actually do not have the xmr any more after this post:

https://twitter.com/MintPalExchange/status/524963448917344256

[drawingthesun]

There is a simple solution to bad Gini -- if you hold the dominant portion:  Distribute it.

I am about to build a grand palace in Crypto Kingdom. My estimate of the labor cost alone is 300 XMR. It will go to Labor pool, and becomes distributed to all the players in the game. Crypto Kingdom uses XMR as the ingame currency.

Not to be rude, but doesn't this game distract from the fact that Monero has no DB and no real GUI? The current GUI's seem hodgepodge and Bitcoin is gearing up to destroy all the alt coins.

It seems we are trying to win a battle, as Bitcoin is about to win the war.

[Este Nuno]

shame mintpal stole so many XMR and hes dropping it

i heard that mintpal didnt migrate XMR to v2 and they have found access to their old wallet.

is it true? i'll wait for statdude to confirm.

I wouldn't believe a word they say until the coins are actually returned the customers. I know for a fact they lied about trying to reach the Monero core team "for help with their wallet." They never tried to reach us.

I do hope everyone gets paid though.

Who was 'they' at the time? Was that someone from moolah or was that someone from the original MP team? I'm trying to figure out if the original MP people are victims here or if they've contributed shadiness to the situation.