[ANN][FAIR] FairCoin - for a fair economy, featuring proof-of-cooperation

[smartaction]

testing fairtoearth android app I see that If I want exchange fairs I must pay more than double compared with getfaircoin ratio. is this normal ? will be fixed in anyway, soon? becouse looks like the fairtoearth is only taking the price from bittrex+fee and as far as I know the correct price for faircoop is getfaircoin price. right ?

I was trying to use fairtoearth to take 20 euros ( 400 fairs in getfaircoin) ( I am agree in pay 550, or 600, or a normal fee ): the app ask me for 1081 faircoins (54.2 euros in getfaircoin) so I cant spend that amount of fairs....  if this is a special way to secure the fairtoearth fund.. what can faircoop do to fix this ?

thx for all your answers and time. cheers

I think you are totally right.

@Faircoop team:
The current FAIR price in GetFairCoin has really become unsustainable in my opinion.
The way it is going now, no new money is coming in through GetFairCoin, because the price is really, really hign compared to the Bittrex price.
This prevents new money coming in to GetFairCoin, which prevents the FairCoop team from buying new FAIR from Bittrex, which prevents the price on Bittrex to rise again.
So we are really in a stallmate now and this is starting to threaten to trust in the whole FAIR economy.
So the price in GetFairCoin really needs to be lowered again to the current Bittrex level. Then we can begin to grow again.

I understand the vision of being attached to the Euro instead of Bitcoin, but maybe it's a little bit too early to let go of that link completely.
Also, linking to the euro would of course only really work if you could also sell you FAIR for euro's at all times against the same rate.
If you can only buy for euro's and not sell, then a link will not work.

So please adjust GetFairCoin price for all the people who are not on Bittrex and we are good to go again !  

Does everybody agree with this ?

well if someone feel the price on GetFairCoin is so high and unacceptable..the solution is really simple..just use the Euro that you want to invest in Faircoin to buy Bitcoin,and then use the Bitcoin and buy Faircoin in Bittrex...there is no need to change the rate on GetFairCoin and it should be set as a standard price to avoid the speculators that try to get benifit with buying cheap Faircoin and than dumping it on Bittrex.

Example:
Someone who has not been interested in crypto up until now reads an interview with Enric Duran and hears about Faircoop and the ideas behind creating a new FAIR economy based on cooperation.
He gets enthousiastic and downloads a wallet and buys 2000 FAIR for 100 euro with Paypal through GetFairCoin.
Then after a week, he decides to use Bitbill to pay his electrical bill of 50 euro with FAIR, to contribute to the usage of FAIR.
He then suddenly realises that his electrical bill will cost him about 2020 FAIR, because the price on Bittrex is about half of what he paid for his FAIR.
That does not sound FAIR to me.

the answer is simple here.....don`t use Bitbill to pay the electrical bill then

right now i feel that Bitbill is really ridiculous that overcharge the users with such the highest rate and by that means it just want to get huge INSTANT profits with dumping it in Bittrex!

Which is clear is that if you cashout faircoin in anyway (bitbill, fairtoearth, bittrex,....)   you are creating selling pressure by this action.

So, if you want to use Bitbill for example without creating new selling pressure, you can at the same time put a buy wall for the same amount in bittrex. Doing like this, you can use their service,  (can be useful for example for making wire transfer that you dont want to do from a bank), without afecting the faircoin value.

[smartaction]

Hello people,

Reading all your opinions of this last days related the faircoin price situation in getfaircoin, bittrex, etc...

I see in one hand, that Bitcoin has grow a 20% the last two weeks  (top on 30% this weekend). Also other cryptocurrencies has grown a lot.
And this makes in proportion the getfaircoin price a cheaper one (currently about 17000 satoshis in bittrex).

Otherwise We are working heavily in faircoin adoptiop for the real economy, with the ATM network, the use.fair-coin.org directory and the next faircoin week for 24-31 july.... besides other long term projects like fairmarket, Coopshares, ... 
The real value of what we are doing is growing, besides what bittrex has to say (that can be heavy affected by short term choises of few big holders, as we saw on the weekend).
Also FairCoop is investing in bointies and some expense based in getfaircoin.net  price, in that context not makes sense to chante to lower the getfaircoin price, because this would affect the expectatives of the people working for bounties, and the faircoop budget itself... Also is a problem for the stability that we want to create and show for the newcomers to cryptocurrency.

Anyway, at that moment, the price spread between bittrex and getfaircoin is too much, for making the faircoin ecosystem works for real...
Especially we need to make possible for merchants that will be involved in the faircoin week, to cashout faircoin at same price that they sell
when based in getfaircoin value. For that question of the faircoin week we need to push the bittrex price until at least close to 15000 satoshis, before july 20.

Therefore my proposal is to share the responsability to buy up in bittrex this week, between lots of the faircoin supporters that could be part of that and are reading us. So, if you have bitcoins or possibility to buy for investing in bittrex to show your support to faircoin, and make a good investment at that low prices, please prepare your buys!!

We have Sell walls around 17 BTC until 15000 so, we need to put together about this amount to make the push to help on the faircoin stability.
If around 15 people invest 1 BTC of so, we can do it...

I am thinking in the way to manage that call for buy up in bittrex in the better way, and would like to know your opinions.
I could spend faircoins for make bonus for people that come to this call and I am thinking in the way to manage that proposal. I will write more later tody about that.

Meanwhile I remember good practices for helping the faircoin value and the faircoop projects, next days.

Good practices.
- Buy up in the sell walls (thats the best one, for pushing the price)
-  Build Buy walls, in the upper prices, to create buying pressure.
- If you not really need to sell, avoid to put sell walls below 15000 satoshis (or much lower that getfaircoin.net reference)
- If you spend faircoin using services like bitbill, fairtoearth or some merchants, remember to  rebuy your faircoin holdings buying on bittrex

Thanks for your support!

[matthewh3]

Why not create one of the coop funds dedicated only to give stabilization of the coin and to punish speculators?

This is what we are trying to do with http://www.coopshares.net
Any support to help to build that project is welcome... and getting the liquidity need is very welcome

I want to make two separate 20,000 FAIR investments into CoopShares if possible.  Although it currently says €1.00 = 20 FAIR so does that mean that each 20,000 FAIR investment would have a value of €1,000.  Even though at the current market price of €0.017726/1FAIR would mean that the current market value would be €354.52 for 20,000 FAIR.

[smartaction]

Why not create one of the coop funds dedicated only to give stabilization of the coin and to punish speculators?

This is what we are trying to do with http://www.coopshares.net
Any support to help to build that project is welcome... and getting the liquidity need is very welcome

I want to make two separate 20,000 FAIR investments into CoopShares if possible.  Although it currently says €1.00 = 20 FAIR so does that mean that each 20,000 FAIR investment would have a value of €1,000.  Even though at the current market price of €0.017726/1FAIR would mean that the current market value would be €354.52 for 20,000 FAIR.

Yes, Coopshares use getfaircoin.net as a price reference.
Anyway if you invest in FIF (faircoin investment fund)   https://coopshares.net/2015/05/21/fif/
you will be able to cashout as a Fair, at least in 6 month. So, you will receive in principle 20000 FAIR when cashout - the same amount-, and therefore in this case the EUR reference not affects your investment.

The problem you mention affects when yo invest in FEHIF: https://coopshares.net/2015/05/20/get-faircoin-fehif/   And in this case the cashout of 50% euros and 50% faircoin will be based in getfaircoin.net reference.

Otherwise, as stated above, we need to cover that spread, asap...

[Zombie123]

Hello people,

Reading all your opinions of this last days related the faircoin price situation in getfaircoin, bittrex, etc...

I see in one hand, that Bitcoin has grow a 20% the last two weeks  (top on 30% this weekend). Also other cryptocurrencies has grown a lot.
And this makes in proportion the getfaircoin price a cheaper one (currently about 17000 satoshis in bittrex).

Otherwise We are working heavily in faircoin adoptiop for the real economy, with the ATM network, the use.fair-coin.org directory and the next faircoin week for 24-31 july.... besides other long term projects like fairmarket, Coopshares, ... 
The real value of what we are doing is growing, besides what bittrex has to say (that can be heavy affected by short term choises of few big holders, as we saw on the weekend).
Also FairCoop is investing in bointies and some expense based in getfaircoin.net  price, in that context not makes sense to chante to lower the getfaircoin price, because this would affect the expectatives of the people working for bounties, and the faircoop budget itself... Also is a problem for the stability that we want to create and show for the newcomers to cryptocurrency.

Anyway, at that moment, the price spread between bittrex and getfaircoin is too much, for making the faircoin ecosystem works for real...
Especially we need to make possible for merchants that will be involved in the faircoin week, to cashout faircoin at same price that they sell
when based in getfaircoin value. For that question of the faircoin week we need to push the bittrex price until at least close to 15000 satoshis, before july 20.

Therefore my proposal is to share the responsability to buy up in bittrex this week, between lots of the faircoin supporters that could be part of that and are reading us. So, if you have bitcoins or possibility to buy for investing in bittrex to show your support to faircoin, and make a good investment at that low prices, please prepare your buys!!

We have Sell walls around 17 BTC until 15000 so, we need to put together about this amount to make the push to help on the faircoin stability.
If around 15 people invest 1 BTC of so, we can do it...

I am thinking in the way to manage that call for buy up in bittrex in the better way, and would like to know your opinions.
I could spend faircoins for make bonus for people that come to this call and I am thinking in the way to manage that proposal. I will write more later tody about that.

Meanwhile I remember good practices for helping the faircoin value and the faircoop projects, next days.

Good practices.
- Buy up in the sell walls (thats the best one, for pushing the price)
-  Build Buy walls, in the upper prices, to create buying pressure.
- If you not really need to sell, avoid to put sell walls below 15000 satoshis (or much lower that getfaircoin.net reference)
- If you spend faircoin using services like bitbill, fairtoearth or some merchants, remember to  rebuy your faircoin holdings buying on bittrex

Thanks for your support!

Price manipulation will never work no matter what you do. Unless you have unlimited access to Fiat. Even if you force raise price to 15K whats keeping sellers from bringing it right down.
If I invest say 1BTC and we raise price to 15K and then it crashes to 6K I lose over .5TC

[ninjask]

Hello people,

Reading all your opinions of this last days related the faircoin price situation in getfaircoin, bittrex, etc...

I see in one hand, that Bitcoin has grow a 20% the last two weeks  (top on 30% this weekend). Also other cryptocurrencies has grown a lot.
And this makes in proportion the getfaircoin price a cheaper one (currently about 17000 satoshis in bittrex).

Otherwise We are working heavily in faircoin adoptiop for the real economy, with the ATM network, the use.fair-coin.org directory and the next faircoin week for 24-31 july.... besides other long term projects like fairmarket, Coopshares, ... 
The real value of what we are doing is growing, besides what bittrex has to say (that can be heavy affected by short term choises of few big holders, as we saw on the weekend).
Also FairCoop is investing in bointies and some expense based in getfaircoin.net  price, in that context not makes sense to chante to lower the getfaircoin price, because this would affect the expectatives of the people working for bounties, and the faircoop budget itself... Also is a problem for the stability that we want to create and show for the newcomers to cryptocurrency.

Anyway, at that moment, the price spread between bittrex and getfaircoin is too much, for making the faircoin ecosystem works for real...
Especially we need to make possible for merchants that will be involved in the faircoin week, to cashout faircoin at same price that they sell
when based in getfaircoin value. For that question of the faircoin week we need to push the bittrex price until at least close to 15000 satoshis, before july 20.

Therefore my proposal is to share the responsability to buy up in bittrex this week, between lots of the faircoin supporters that could be part of that and are reading us. So, if you have bitcoins or possibility to buy for investing in bittrex to show your support to faircoin, and make a good investment at that low prices, please prepare your buys!!

We have Sell walls around 17 BTC until 15000 so, we need to put together about this amount to make the push to help on the faircoin stability.
If around 15 people invest 1 BTC of so, we can do it...

I am thinking in the way to manage that call for buy up in bittrex in the better way, and would like to know your opinions.
I could spend faircoins for make bonus for people that come to this call and I am thinking in the way to manage that proposal. I will write more later tody about that.

Meanwhile I remember good practices for helping the faircoin value and the faircoop projects, next days.

Good practices.
- Buy up in the sell walls (thats the best one, for pushing the price)
-  Build Buy walls, in the upper prices, to create buying pressure.
- If you not really need to sell, avoid to put sell walls below 15000 satoshis (or much lower that getfaircoin.net reference)
- If you spend faircoin using services like bitbill, fairtoearth or some merchants, remember to  rebuy your faircoin holdings buying on bittrex

Thanks for your support!

Price manipulation will never work no matter what you do. Unless you have unlimited access to Fiat. Even if you force raise price to 15K whats keeping sellers from bringing it right down.
If I invest say 1BTC and we raise price to 15K and then it crashes to 6K I lose over .5TC

What i think we should do is to get out of Bittrex, and here is why:

Bittrex is ran by trading bots, computer software in other words.
All the top cryptocurrencies are ran by bots too.
Bittrex is full of daily traders with bots.

So no matter how many buy orders we place, bots always win.

I did mention to get out of bittrex a while ago, i mean i donated to get in bittrex as it was much needed at some point.
Now i think we should leave it.

Just my opinion.

[smartaction]

Hello people,

Reading all your opinions of this last days related the faircoin price situation in getfaircoin, bittrex, etc...

I see in one hand, that Bitcoin has grow a 20% the last two weeks  (top on 30% this weekend). Also other cryptocurrencies has grown a lot.
And this makes in proportion the getfaircoin price a cheaper one (currently about 17000 satoshis in bittrex).

Otherwise We are working heavily in faircoin adoptiop for the real economy, with the ATM network, the use.fair-coin.org directory and the next faircoin week for 24-31 july.... besides other long term projects like fairmarket, Coopshares, ... 
The real value of what we are doing is growing, besides what bittrex has to say (that can be heavy affected by short term choises of few big holders, as we saw on the weekend).
Also FairCoop is investing in bointies and some expense based in getfaircoin.net  price, in that context not makes sense to chante to lower the getfaircoin price, because this would affect the expectatives of the people working for bounties, and the faircoop budget itself... Also is a problem for the stability that we want to create and show for the newcomers to cryptocurrency.

Anyway, at that moment, the price spread between bittrex and getfaircoin is too much, for making the faircoin ecosystem works for real...
Especially we need to make possible for merchants that will be involved in the faircoin week, to cashout faircoin at same price that they sell
when based in getfaircoin value. For that question of the faircoin week we need to push the bittrex price until at least close to 15000 satoshis, before july 20.

Therefore my proposal is to share the responsability to buy up in bittrex this week, between lots of the faircoin supporters that could be part of that and are reading us. So, if you have bitcoins or possibility to buy for investing in bittrex to show your support to faircoin, and make a good investment at that low prices, please prepare your buys!!

We have Sell walls around 17 BTC until 15000 so, we need to put together about this amount to make the push to help on the faircoin stability.
If around 15 people invest 1 BTC of so, we can do it...

I am thinking in the way to manage that call for buy up in bittrex in the better way, and would like to know your opinions.
I could spend faircoins for make bonus for people that come to this call and I am thinking in the way to manage that proposal. I will write more later tody about that.

Meanwhile I remember good practices for helping the faircoin value and the faircoop projects, next days.

Good practices.
- Buy up in the sell walls (thats the best one, for pushing the price)
-  Build Buy walls, in the upper prices, to create buying pressure.
- If you not really need to sell, avoid to put sell walls below 15000 satoshis (or much lower that getfaircoin.net reference)
- If you spend faircoin using services like bitbill, fairtoearth or some merchants, remember to  rebuy your faircoin holdings buying on bittrex

Thanks for your support!

Price manipulation will never work no matter what you do. Unless you have unlimited access to Fiat. Even if you force raise price to 15K whats keeping sellers from bringing it right down.
If I invest say 1BTC and we raise price to 15K and then it crashes to 6K I lose over .5TC

I know, we not can manipulate price of bittrex.

My proposal is not about price manipulation but about in one side making easier to invest in Bittrex, for adding buying pressure for real; in the other side trading cooperation. Trading cooperation means, that you can join if you know that others are also joining in do the same action that helps the full community and also yourself, so that mean that you are not alone.  That coordination help people to make one step... that perhaps would not happen if some one feels alone.

That "unlimited acces to fiat" will come from the crowd as soon we would be able to activate the real economy happening with faircoin. Faircoin week have this aim, and for this is why I am proposing to collaborate in adjust bittrex and getfaircoin. We need that to have a balanced ecosystem for buying and selling goods.

At that moment for example we could promote for the greek travellers being in Spain, move money from theirgreek  account to spanish ATM but we  not can do that until getfaircoin and bittrex are balanced. (fairtoearth would lije to have getfaircoin reference, but not can support cashout pressure, if the prices are not balanced...)

Everything for real is pending that the prices becames balanced...

Ok, nothing is unlimited, neither selling pressure is... So lets make the acces to fiat more unlimited than the selling pressure,  by the better way, that is real economic activity...

[smartaction]

So, my proposal could be designed like this.

We build a Faircoin stabilization fund. That fund only appears in special situations, like we have now. I n the future when Coopshares liquidity fund would be bigger, probably that stabilization fund not would be needed, but right now is needed.

From getfaircoin we manage that fund.  we receive Bitcoin,  and buy on the sell walls. After that we distribute the faircoins in proportion of your investment.

For the people that suports the stabilization fund, and as a reciprocity of the risk that you are taking
We could bring 20% bonus of your buy in Bittrex, as a free investment in Coopshares FIF.  (This comes from the sells that we are doing in getfaircoin.net at bigger price)

So, as example. You invest 1 BTC, with that BTC the stabilization fund, buys 10000 FAIR (if the prices 10000 satoshis in that case)
then we send you the 10000 FAIR and we create for you an investment of 2000 FAIR in Coopshares FIF.


People that want to help without enter to the fund, can do anyway, managing their funds at their own, but without the coopshares bonus.

I would like to know if there are people interested in join.

[idandeal]

I'm don't understand why people sell at low value

[wosch76]

price is on the rise now

[Indal0]

the new Greek ATM from our Bitchain friends is on fire! and soon Fair will be able to buy!

Greece’s New 2-Way Bitcoin ATM Processed 20 Transactions in 1st Day

http://cointelegraph.com/news/114834/greeces-new-2-way-bitcoin-atm-processed-20-transactions-in-1st-day

[smartaction]

the new Greek ATM from our Bitchain friends is on fire! and soon Fair will be able to buy!

Greece’s New 2-Way Bitcoin ATM Processed 20 Transactions in 1st Day

http://cointelegraph.com/news/114834/greeces-new-2-way-bitcoin-atm-processed-20-transactions-in-1st-day

FairCoop made the first contact for this mediatic and succesful emplacement, so bitchain will be very glad with us 
Chip Chap is also involved managing the sofware and the exchange.

And the agreement with them is for all the ATM, (already 3 more in spain working), and plans to extend the network together
in Greece.  They could install 20 ATM monthly if there are good placements,
So if someone have a good placement to suggest let us know! 

[Sebastien256]

How many atm machine currently support faircoin?

[Indal0]

How many atm machine currently support faircoin?

In the web you can see the map with all the ATM in Spain. in a near future I hope all of them will support Faircoin.
http://www.bitchain.eu/cajeros-bitcoin/

[smartaction]

How many atm machine currently support faircoin?

In the web you can see the map with all the ATM in Spain. in a near future I hope all of them will support Faircoin.
http://www.bitchain.eu/cajeros-bitcoin/

More than that, to remember there are 10000 ATM to cashout in Spain and 4000 in Poland with Fairtoearth app made by chip chap
See the list here: http://www.halcash.com/es/cajeros/listado/ (spain)
(poland) http://www.halcash.pl/en/find-an-atm/index.html

Returning to Autonomous ATM, together with the bitchain ATM we have 5 one way lamassu, two in catalonia, two in castellon and other one pending to confirm... These 5 are also in process to include faircoin, next weeks

So, today there are ways for cashout in ATM but not still to cashin, and when cashin faircoin will becames possible this will be more balanced

[matthewh3]

So, my proposal could be designed like this.

We build a Faircoin stabilization fund. That fund only appears in special situations, like we have now. I n the future when Coopshares liquidity fund would be bigger, probably that stabilization fund not would be needed, but right now is needed.

From getfaircoin we manage that fund.  we receive Bitcoin,  and buy on the sell walls. After that we distribute the faircoins in proportion of your investment.

For the people that suports the stabilization fund, and as a reciprocity of the risk that you are taking
We could bring 20% bonus of your buy in Bittrex, as a free investment in Coopshares FIF.  (This comes from the sells that we are doing in getfaircoin.net at bigger price)

So, as example. You invest 1 BTC, with that BTC the stabilization fund, buys 10000 FAIR (if the prices 10000 satoshis in that case)
then we send you the 10000 FAIR and we create for you an investment of 2000 FAIR in Coopshares FIF.


People that want to help without enter to the fund, can do anyway, managing their funds at their own, but without the coopshares bonus.

I would like to know if there are people interested in join.

Yes I could maybe put the 40,000 FAIR investment that I was going to make CoopShares into this fund or maybe only half of it if there's a lot more risk than there is with CoopShares. 

[matthewh3]

the new Greek ATM from our Bitchain friends is on fire! and soon Fair will be able to buy!

Greece’s New 2-Way Bitcoin ATM Processed 20 Transactions in 1st Day

http://cointelegraph.com/news/114834/greeces-new-2-way-bitcoin-atm-processed-20-transactions-in-1st-day

FairCoop made the first contact for this mediatic and succesful emplacement, so bitchain will be very glad with us 
Chip Chap is also involved managing the sofware and the exchange.

And the agreement with them is for all the ATM, (already 3 more in spain working), and plans to extend the network together
in Greece.  They could install 20 ATM monthly if there are good placements,
So if someone have a good placement to suggest let us know! 

If you can get FairCoin on shapeshift.io then it'd be very easy for BTM operators to enable FairCoin transactions.

[Indal0]

How many atm machine currently support faircoin?

In the web you can see the map with all the ATM in Spain. in a near future I hope all of them will support Faircoin.
http://www.bitchain.eu/cajeros-bitcoin/

More than that, to remember there are 10000 ATM to cashout in Spain and 4000 in Poland with Fairtoearth app made by chip chap
See the list here: http://www.halcash.com/es/cajeros/listado/ (spain)
(poland) http://www.halcash.pl/en/find-an-atm/index.html

Returning to Autonomous ATM, together with the bitchain ATM we have 5 one way lamassu, two in catalonia, two in castellon and other one pending to confirm... These 5 are also in process to include faircoin, next weeks

So, today there are ways for cashout in ATM but not still to cashin, and when cashin faircoin will becames possible this will be more balanced

lol yes I completely forget that!! lol

[idandeal]

I think the value will remain low as long as there are people who have hundreds of thousands of coins ...
I think Revision 2, should take the amount of coins and divide by 2 or 3 in fewer coins, and who has a lot will not rush to sell.

[Zombie123]

I think the value will remain low as long as there are people who have hundreds of thousands of coins ...
I think Revision 2, should take the amount of coins and divide by 2 or 3 in fewer coins, and who has a lot will not rush to sell.

Whats that suppose to mean people paid for their coins and you just cant cut the coins to 1/2 or 1/3 ?