[SHUTTING DOWN] [DiceBitco.in | BE THE BANK ! | 1% House Edge]

[JoeMattie]

That and the blatant nonce skipping

[abovemike]

this first post in this thread should be deleted and the owners should be doxxed to hell.
they have been caught twice scamming & cheating players with nonce skipping.
now they are not even paying out a player who overcame their scam code and won to the tune of 168 btc.

DON'T FUCKING PLAY OR INVEST HERE!

[wayshegoes]

DiceBitco.in | GET SCAMMED BY THE BANK ! | 100% House Edge | FAKE BANKROLL | INSTANT SCAM!

LOG INTO THE SITE, DIVEST YOUR COINS OR WITHDRAW DIRECTLY.

They have been caught scamming at least twice, and people still invest/gamble there?

Explain why the nonces are still skipping.

Explain why you didn't send the 168 BTC to the address provided.

Explain why chat is still disabled.

Explain why you are nowhere to be seen.

Explain why you haven't refunded everyone for the first nonce skipping.

Explain why the numbers on your site just don't add up and that the cold wallet doesn't even reflect the bankroll.

CLOSE YOUR SITE. Verified con man.

[Minnlo]

I thought their first scam would be enough to draw the gamblers and investors away and bring the site down. But instead, some people still gambled there and invested in the site, and the site is caught scamming once again...

[pawel7777]

Stop calling DB a SCAM, or he's gonna lock the thread again 

[suchmoon]

Stop calling DB a SCAM, or he's gonna lock the thread again 

Sure, nothing says "a reputable site" better than a locked thread full of scam accusations

But I think he's given up on Bitcointalk. Thread title still has 7500+ in it and his last post was basically begging us to forget his site with no serious effort to rectify the damage. I wonder what other marketing venues he will try next.

[jaysabi]

That and the blatant nonce skipping

I marked up your photos you posted to draw attention to the "nonce skipping," because this is a big deal. But I don't think nonces are being skipped. Please see below for details.



Based on all the photos you provided, I think this is what you're trying to draw attention to, but I'm having trouble with a few things I've noticed that I need your help with because I'm running into some questions now, and I don't think the problem is actually nonce skipping.

1. In your photo, you post the "skipped nonce" that was a winning bet. First, here is the unaltered screen cap you posted showing your streak of losing bets, followed by the winning bet with the "skipped nonce":



Question one: How could you get the screen cap of the skipped nonce if it wasn't in your list of bets? The only way to check a bet is by clicking on the link provided, but if it's not in your list of bets, there's nothing to click. In your screen cap, it's clearly not there. You should not have been able to get a picture of it. So how did you?

2. The alleged "skipped nonce" occurs between two bets of 2.75 btc. But in your screen cap of the winning bet that was allegedly skipped, your bet amount is 0.62685206 btc. In your screen cap of your list of bets, it's clear you're engaging a martingale style strategy. From what we can see, you lose 2 bets at 0.34375 at roughly 31% odds, then lose 4 bets at 0.6875 (double the last amount) at 31%, then lose 4 bets at 1.375 (double the last amount) at 31%,  then you're betting 2.75 btc for the remainder of the bets (I'm assuming because you were up against max bet or you specified a max bet with robot).

Question two: Why would you suddenly abandon your 2.75 btc bet, which you had just done 8 times in a row, to make a 0.62 btc bet which supposedly won, only to then go back in the next bet to 2.75 btc?

Question three: How could you have changed your bet from 2.75 btc to 0.62 btc and then back to 2.75 btc in less than one second? See this photo:




I'm so confused, can anyone help me understand what's going on? What's more confusing to me is that the "skipped nonce bet" is currently showing in the list of high bets, even though it wasn't in the original photo. This is a screen cap from my account of the high bets list:



As you can see, the "skipped nonce" bet is there, so I don't think it was skipped. But I understand what Joe was saying now about the bet that came after it. When Joe won the bet with nonce 3933, the bet directly after that (nonce 3934) which was a loss, was altered so that instead of betting 2.75 at a loss, he bet 4.125 at a loss, which is the original bet plus the winnings from the bet immediately preceeding it, which cancels out the winning bet.

To me, this is clear evidence of a scam by DB, but it is not "skipped nonces." It is altered bets. And I am still curious as to the three questions I posted above, and why the "skipped nonce" as you called it doesn't appear in your list of bets in your first picture. To me, the most likely explanation is that you were running two robots simultaneously. One of them had a string of losses as shown, and another had the winning bet, and the bet IDs and nonces were intermingled since the two robots were placing bets simultaneously. When you run two bots simultaneously, they don't show the bets from the other bot. If you were only running one robot, you wouldn't have been able to get a screen shot of the winning bet that was "skipped," and it's unlikely that you would alter your betting style randomly for one bet, and especially that you would not be able to do so in one second. Multiple bots is the only thing that makes sense to me, but then I'm not sure why you would present this as a skipped nonce issue if you knew it wasn't. Can anyone help me out if I'm missing something embarrassingly obvious?


For reference, here are the three original photos showing the time stamps that I used in my photos of the mark up.

Nonce 3932: https://i.imgur.com/sPthyOe.png
Nonce 3933: https://i.imgur.com/NHkPeh0.png
Nonce 3934: https://i.imgur.com/WffmDFQ.png

[JoeMattie]

I can post more photos if you'd like.

The bet with the skipped nonce was fabricated entirely and automatically when I randomized my seed.  It's just lucky that I had a chance to take a screengrab of it beforehand.  3932 and 3934 were placed consecutively, for 2.75 BTC each.  Both lost.

After I randomized my seed, they modified the payout amounts in their database and fabricated a bet to place inbetween those two.  Notice that this ended up resulting in bet and payout amounts that are incorrect (and invalid on the site at the time).

[JoeMattie]

Also, I was not running a bot.  I was betting by hand

[JoeMattie]

I'll address your questions directly:

Question one: How could you get the screen cap of the skipped nonce if it wasn't in your list of bets? The only way to check a bet is by clicking on the link provided, but if it's not in your list of bets, there's nothing to click. In your screen cap, it's clearly not there. You should not have been able to get a picture of it. So how did you?

It was not in my list of bets until I randomized my seed.

2. The alleged "skipped nonce" occurs between two bets of 2.75 btc. But in your screen cap of the winning bet that was allegedly skipped, your bet amount is 0.62685206 btc. In your screen cap of your list of bets, it's clear you're engaging a martingale style strategy. From what we can see, you lose 2 bets at 0.34375 at roughly 31% odds, then lose 4 bets at 0.6875 (double the last amount) at 31%, then lose 4 bets at 1.375 (double the last amount) at 31%,  then you're betting 2.75 btc for the remainder of the bets (I'm assuming because you were up against max bet or you specified a max bet with robot).

Question two: Why would you suddenly abandon your 2.75 btc bet, which you had just done 8 times in a row, to make a 0.62 btc bet which supposedly won, only to then go back in the next bet to 2.75 btc?

I didn't.  That's the point.  They fabricated that bet after I randomized my seed.

Question three: How could you have changed your bet from 2.75 btc to 0.62 btc and then back to 2.75 btc in less than one second? See this photo:

I can't, and didn't.

[jaysabi]

Great, so let's see if I understand the timeline:

-You take a screen cap of your list of bets while checking after a loss streak. Nonce 3933 is missing from the list of bets.

-You take screen grabs of your individual bets, which includes nonce 3932 and 3934, but the client seed is missing. You can't get it until you randomize your seed, which will make your previous seed available.

-You randomize your seed so you can check your previous bets during your loss streak.

-Your list of bets changes to add in nonce 3933, a bet you say was completely fabricated but which was "won." This also changes the value of the the bet with nonce 3934 to be higher than you originally bet, which cancels out the winnings of the nonce 3933 bet.

Is that correct? Anything to add or correct? Did your balance change after you randomized to reflect the change in the value of your losing bet, or was that money already missing from your balance?

If that timeline is correct, what would be the purpose of fabricating a winning bet and then changing the value of the bet after it to cancel it out? If the scam is to alter bet values of losing bets, why not just do that without fabricating winning bets?

 It would seem that if bet values are being changed, there would have to be a point where you make a losing bet and MORE money than you lost is deducted from your account, and then the bet values are made to match when you randomize, OR when you randomize your bets and the bet values of losing bets change, money would suddenly disappear from your balance. Which one is happening here?

[JoeMattie]

Great, so let's see if I understand the timeline:

-You take a screen cap of your list of bets while checking after a loss streak. Nonce 3933 is missing from the list of bets.

-You take screen grabs of your individual bets, which includes nonce 3932 and 3934, but the client seed is missing. You can't get it until you randomize your seed, which will make your previous seed available.

-You randomize your seed so you can check your previous bets during your loss streak.

-Your list of bets changes to add in nonce 3933, a bet you say was completely fabricated but which was "won." This also changes the value of the the bet with nonce 3934 to be higher than you originally bet, which cancels out the winnings of the nonce 3933 bet.

Is that correct? Anything to add or correct? Did your balance change after you randomized to reflect the change in the value of your losing bet, or was that money already missing from your balance?

If that timeline is correct, what would be the purpose of fabricating a winning bet and then changing the value of the bet after it to cancel it out? If the scam is to alter bet values of losing bets, why not just do that without fabricating winning bets?

 It would seem that if bet values are being changed, there would have to be a point where you make a losing bet and MORE money than you lost is deducted from your account, and then the bet values are made to match when you randomize, OR when you randomize your bets and the bet values of losing bets change, money would suddenly disappear from your balance. Which one is happening here?

Exactly correct.

My balance did not change after I randomized.

Also I would like to point out that they sent my withdrawal to a different address than I had requested.  One which I don't own.

[cloverme]

I'm keegan_bernier

Dicebitcoin is still selectively skipping nonces.  I have proof.

Geeze... This would be the second time they've been caught... maybe they just have bad code? I can't see why they would go through the trouble of doing the provably fair code and posting the seeds just to skip them. Seems like a lot of trouble to scam, but I suppose anything is possible. Good catch though either way...

[jaysabi]

Exactly correct.

My balance did not change after I randomized.

Also I would like to point out that they sent my withdrawal to a different address than I had requested.  One which I don't own.

That's the other giant issue here, but I wanted to understand what the scam was first.

Can anyone with a little insight explain why the scam would be structured this way? My assumption is that it would be to try to hide the fraud, but creating fake winning bets doesn't seem to do that. It seems to draw more attention to someone investigating a loss streak when suddenly winning bets show up, and then losing bet values change. Why do that?

[abovemike]

That's the other giant issue here, but I wanted to understand what the scam was first.

Can anyone with a little insight explain why the scam would be structured this way? My assumption is that it would be to try to hide the fraud, but creating fake winning bets doesn't seem to do that. It seems to draw more attention to someone investigating a loss streak when suddenly winning bets show up, and then losing bet values change. Why do that?

the point is that when a whale is playing, you can start skipping his winning bets and hope that he does not notice.
this will decrease whale's winnings, because he should have won that bet, but they skipped it.
now you insert in fake bets for the skipped ones if they randomize to check their play history.
they did this because that the last time they got caught last cheating was due to missing bets.
to fabricate fake wins while keeping the total balances the same, they had to increase the losses of some bets, so they took a naive algo approach and just increased the loss of the bet immediately after the win by the same amount.
unfortunately they didn't realize that some players only play with certain wager amounts.

[Cluster2k]

One of my initial questions to 'keegan' hasn't been answered: how did the player knock the site profit from 340 to around -30 in one YOLO session of mostly flat betting on a site that allegedly keeps skipping winning nonces?  It should be even harder to rape the profit like that. 

Sure, the profit did rise to around 205 by the end of the YOLO betting session and that's when the accusation of skipping nonces came out.  Was there any skipping of losing bets earlier?

[JoeMattie]

One of my initial questions to 'keegan' hasn't been answered: how did the player knock the site profit from 340 to around -30 in one YOLO session of mostly flat betting on a site that allegedly keeps skipping winning nonces?  It should be even harder to rape the profit like that. 

Sure, the profit did rise to around 205 by the end of the YOLO betting session and that's when the accusation of skipping nonces came out.  Was there any skipping of losing bets earlier?

The nonce skipping didn't start until I had the site in the negative.

All I can say is: luck

[snarlpill]

People like this (manl & DiceBitco.in) make me sick. They show a complete lack of respect towards players while repeatedly stealing from them. This new approach to their scamming (fabricating lost bets after seed randomization) just makes me think that they think we're stupid.

OP- Don't even try to pull some more bullshit and say that the "super mysterious, anonymous rogue developer" has somehow pushed another change in the code. Just don't. Oh- and please post a transaction ID of JoeMattie's (keegan) ~168 BTC of winnings being sent to the address he Tried to withdraw to.

[Cluster2k]

The nonce skipping didn't start until I had the site in the negative.

All I can say is: luck

I wish I had your luck  

Have you verified your entire betting run and noticed more skipped nonces?  It would be very damning against DB if skipped nonces only occurred after a 'oh shit, we're losing big time' flag was raised at DB and the game switched to rigged mode.  Then again, it's not like we can do anything.  DB's operator is anonymous and all we can do is agitate on this forum.

[JoeMattie]

The nonce skipping didn't start until I had the site in the negative.

All I can say is: luck

I wish I had your luck  

Have you verified your entire betting run and noticed more skipped nonces?  It would be very damning against DB if skipped nonces only occurred after a 'oh shit, we're losing big time' flag was raised at DB and the game switched to rigged mode.  Then again, it's not like we can do anything.  DB's operator is anonymous and all we can do is agitate on this forum.

I haven't but I took a bunch of screenshots, so I will be looking over this more thoroughly.  I can tell you from feel though that it started happening around when I hit 410 BTC