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Author Topic: bitcoin changing my ideology from socialism to libertarianism! What about you?  (Read 33464 times)
Erdogan
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October 14, 2014, 12:01:56 PM
 #701

inBitweTrust what's your community? Sound interesting, I want to visit.

I'm not anti ancap ideas, just that I empathise more with market anarchism as a tactic because sometimes the ancap wiki article sounds too fantastical and idealised rather than realistic. especially when it gets into insurance companies and private enforcers which is a big no no for me. I've seen some funky youtube videos where this company A pays that company B blaa blaa - very utopic almost.

You are spot on with identifying and denouncing visions exposed by many ideologies and I empathize with your sentiment to resist certain labels because of your goal to address the issues directly rather than participate in less productive armchair politics. The romanticism espoused by certain trans-humanists , groups like the seasteaders , the zeitgeist movement, the venus project , and others all have an unrealistic and utopian ideals which makes them fascinating but anyone with any real experience living in a anarchistic community realizes there is no end utopia to be realized or even desired.

I live on a Permaculture farm in Costa Rica, in a small community. This isn't a planned anarcho-cap community and the people come from all ages, nationalities, income levels , and politics; albeit higher amounts of anarchists and libertarians exist in our communities than the general population. There are hundreds of these types of communities all over Costa Rica , and Latin America and they naturally just function as anarcho cap communities because we need to get things done and most people here are capitalists. Many Latin American countries, while being somewhat more "socialist" in nature are also inept as well where people naturally live like anarchists outside of the main capital or larger cities. There are some examples of ancho-socialist communes here that I have visited but they don't do as well as ones that embrace capitalism.

Despite the caricatures portrayed by socialists and anarcho-communists on the evils of an-caps and our love of corporations and hatred of the poor, in reality we have many of the same goals and motivations as them, just different methods at accomplishing such goals. We would rather allow a psychopath to identify themselves by not contributing rather than using force to mandate egalitarianism. When a community is kept small, social pressures can have a very powerful effect and we have been successful in running some of the most dangerous, heavily armed druglords out of town without the use of violence and by social pressures and solidarity alone in our community with our non-profit DRO.


P.S>...You certainly are welcome to come and visit and I'll invite you once I finish building my guesthouse for you to crash at.(kinda waiting on bitcoin to rebound before finishing  Tongue)


P.S.S... Yes, most planned developments in general are scams and rely on misleading or false promises whether they be Galt's Gulch(WTF was Jeff thinking?) or any traditional development. The key is to buy or homestead property yourself and just work in solidarity with your neighbors rather than manufacture some dream utopia without any effort. 
 

This is interesting information. The concept of hard land property ownership rights is not dealt with and done among freedom loving people. Private ownership generally is. No freedom is possible unless you own yourself, your body, your clothes, the air surrounding you, your food and water that you have either produced yourself or acquired in voluntary trade. If the hunter/gatherer had hunted some game or gathered some berries, they are his, just like the modern version of food hunting where you get something from a shop for money that you got for your own work.

Currently all land is apparently owned, because governments have just confiscated all unused land, and all future land that comes in to existence, in the form of for example radio spectrum, sea bottoms, air space, tunnels and so on. But in many law systems there are remnants of what was the original method of acquiring land, namely, when some land was unused, anyone could occupy that land and call it their own. There was recently a court case here where someone declared ownership of unused land (not clarified yet, and if I know my dominators, they will not accept that, but it is still the law).

Ancient societies had also private land, some historians say otherwise, but my analysis is that the ownership was either personal in a family, where it was handed over through heritage, or owned by a wider voluntary association of people. Those associations were voluntary, because some individual could choose to join, or the association could choose to take on a new member. If someone was not ready to play the game, he would be expelled from trading with any member of the association, which is a legal reaction. It helped that there were lots of unused land those days.

In your ancap society, I guess the land is still owned in the hard, state defined sense at the bottom, which make it different from the ideal master-free society (where everybody is the sovereign of his own self-kingdom). Anyway, it is an interesting approximation of a free society.
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October 14, 2014, 12:23:06 PM
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You are spot on with identifying and denouncing visions exposed by many ideologies and I empathize with your sentiment to resist certain labels because of your goal to address the issues directly rather than participate in less productive armchair politics. The romanticism espoused by certain trans-humanists , groups like the seasteaders , the zeitgeist movement, the venus project , and others all have an unrealistic and utopian ideals which makes them fascinating but anyone with any real experience living in a anarchistic community realizes there is no end utopia to be realized or even desired.

...

Despite the caricatures portrayed by socialists and anarcho-communists on the evils of an-caps and our love of corporations and hatred of the poor, in reality we have many of the same goals and motivations as them, just different methods at accomplishing such goals. We would rather allow a psychopath to identify themselves by not contributing rather than using force to mandate egalitarianism. When a community is kept small, social pressures can have a very powerful effect and we have been successful in running some of the most dangerous, heavily armed druglords out of town without the use of violence and by social pressures and solidarity alone in our community with our non-profit DRO.

cool I've had big arguments with communists before turning aggressive and loud calling me bourgeois despite my extremely modest lifestyle striving for my ideals. No matter what you say they are hopelessly dogmatic and unwilling to understand why you can't take power to fix things.

Quote
Proudhon said of communism, "whether of the utopian or the Marxist variety, that it destroyed freedom by taking away from the individual control over his means of production" and "Communism is exploitation of the strong by the weak." Mikhail Bakunin stated "I hate Communism because it is the negation of liberty and because for me humanity is unthinkable without liberty.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Issues_in_anarchism#Communism

Their ideology is rooted in an older period and is an obsolete dogma for our time.

Quote
Why has the oppressed proletariat not come to its senses and joined you in your fight for world liberation? ... [Because] they know that your antiquated styles of protest – your marches, hand held signs, and gatherings – are now powerless to effect real change because they have become such a predictable part of the status quo. They know that your post-Marxist jargon is off-putting because it really is a language of mere academic dispute, not a weapon capable of undermining systems of control…
—"Your Politics Are Boring as Fuck"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-left_anarchy

I sympathise heavily with these viewpoints:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-market_anarchism#Left-wing_market_anarchism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geolibertarianism

In the end, we don't have all the answers, simply ideals to strive towards thinking how we should implement them in the here and the now. Unlike any utopic ideology, what separates us is putting what we say into practice and living our ideals as our activism.

I've lived around the world, and interacted with many activist communities. I'm friends with people across all the spectrum from academics, politicians, businessmen, anarchists of the south, libertarians of the west, ... and sense a common strand of perception on the world separated often by isolating language or political frameworks. What an American believes and emphasises is very much tied to the local culture, context and history, and differs from a Spanish guy. It's important to look past this with understanding about the issues with a recognition that we are one freedom movement.

There are different governance models, different ways of organising, and no one way is objectively better. There are tradeoffs. What we can do is work through markets to provide the things to empower people to self-organise. I fundamentally believe (take it as a dogma or experience Smiley) that free & open markets work best in our favour as we're working against the status quo. It's not simply a matter of what's better but also the inevitability of a changing global landscape that we have to adapt to. I want a world based on merit and empathy (if you're egoist, call it "enlightened self-interest", or leftist call it "mutuality"). I love to support people doing cool things or projects with my own money or have nice people around. My method is about creating the tools or means so we can have 10s of thousands or millions of people working together, supporting each other with a philosophy of "why put your money in the corporations, put your money in your friends". We spend lots of money everyday giving to big corporations, but instead if we could satisfy our needs as free people, we can continue to reinvest in each other. From different perspectives you could call this either socialism or capitalism (depending on your definitions of the word).

Here's an article about the CIC in Catalonia. They are using the legal structure of a cooperative to create their own startup government that provides the basic services that people need to live, but better than that of the governments of the state:
https://cooperativa.cat/en/integral-revolution/
They use the legal structure to create their own internal economy and are ~10,000 different organisations with a food network and different services for people. It's a cool vision.

Also our plan is to build our own cities:
https://wiki.unsystem.net/index.php/UnSYSTEM/Opensource_city

A communist town (interesting to understand):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marinaleda,_Spain
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October 14, 2014, 12:32:10 PM
Last edit: October 14, 2014, 07:50:59 PM by inBitweTrust
 #703

In your ancap society, I guess the land is still owned in the hard, state defined sense at the bottom, which make it different from the ideal master-free society (where everybody is the sovereign of his own self-kingdom). Anyway, it is an interesting approximation of a free society.


Land here is acquired by purchasing or homesteading. Many countries in the America's allow for homesteading and the loss of land that is neglected. Many countries allow for water right claims, and other common law rights such as the right to travel, even through private property if other ways are not assessable. Land rights are transient and most anarcho-capitalists believe in such a principle. We believe property rights as an extension of self ownership which can be gained or lost. The details as how the state determines property rights and homesteading is far from perfect but also not very different than how it would function in an anarchist society. Anarchists believe in governments and laws , just not in state governments with monopolies of force. Costa Rica is fairly close to that ideal being that it has abolished the military over 60 years ago, thus homesteading is determined by local witnesses and evidence provided to a local judge. Within a purer anarchist society this judge would probably be represented by a group of volunteers and upstanding community members all of the community agreed upon that took on a temporary role of arbitration.  

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October 14, 2014, 12:44:30 PM
 #704

In your ancap society, I guess the land is still owned in the hard, state defined sense at the bottom, which make it different from the ideal master-free society (where everybody is the sovereign of his own self-kingdom). Anyway, it is an interesting approximation of a free society.


Land here is acquired by purchasing or homesteading. Most countries allow for homesteading and the loss of land that is neglected. Many countries allow for water right claims, and other common law rights such as the right to travel, even through private property if other ways are not assessable. The United States is really just the outlier with all the changes over the years removing the rights to homesteading which ended in 1976 (and in 1986 for Alaska) . Land rights are transient and most anarcho-capitalists believe in such a principle. We believe property rights as an extension of self ownership which can be gained or lost. The details as how the state determines property rights and homesteading is far from perfect but also not very different than how it would function in an anarchist society. Anarchists believe in governments and laws , just not in state governments with monopolies of force. Costa Rica is fairly close to that ideal being that it has abolished the military over 60 years ago, thus homesteading is determined by local witnesses and evidence provided to a local judge. Within a purer anarchist society this judge would probably be represented by a group of volunteers and upstanding community members all of the community agreed upon that took on a temporary role of arbitration.  

Even more interesting...
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October 14, 2014, 12:47:17 PM
 #705

..while the public who should reap the compensation gets screwed, but the harm is distributed fairly evenly across society.
No, it most certainly is not. The harm is heaped upon poor minority communities, most especially low-income black males who account for 80% of the prison (=rape-camp slave labor for profit) population.

Similarly, they may pollute the atmosphere and increase my chances of getting cancer by a few millionths of a percent, but that is not hurting me much.
A dangerously myopic perspective. When you can't swim in the oceans or even live within 50 miles of any ocean, will it affect you then?

As for how our socialist 'public health' system treats kids
Whoadude, I don't know where you're from but it's sure as shit better not be the United States.

Whatever healthcare system you have, I guarantee you it's better, WAY cheaper, more compassionate, more comprehensive, than the parasite profiteering model for health"care" we have here.

U.S. spends 18% of our GDP on healthcare.
Australia spends only 9% of GDP. That's a country that is mostly unlivable fucking desert, by the way.

Hip replacement in Belgium costs $13,000.
Hip replacement in U.S. = $100,000 +

Colonoscopy Switzerland = $650.
Colonoscopy in US = $1,100

1 month of Lipitor in New Zealand = $7.
1 month of Lipitor in U.S. = $124

In the U.S. healthcare providers charge whatever they think they can get away with.

BTW Americans go to the doctor less than Europeans and stay in hospitals far less time, probably because hospital stays are 7 times more expensive here in the U.S.

Remember Aaron Swartz, a 26 year old computer scientist who died defending the free flow of information.
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October 14, 2014, 12:48:44 PM
Last edit: October 14, 2014, 12:58:55 PM by inBitweTrust
 #706

It's important to look past this with understanding about the issues with a recognition that we are one freedom movement.


Some great information there and something to research. I think one of the central problems with anarchists is that many simply are living their ideals and theories within their head and not embodying it in practice as well. Once you commit to live by the principles, such as agorism and voluntarism in my case, the labels and theory don't matter as much as the solidarity and community despite any differences. So to me I am perfectly fine visiting, befriending, and working alongside individuals that wish to neglect the useful function currency provides as long as they don't abolish those rights I have.

 I too have been fascinated about open source ecology movement but have been more involved directly in the creating and learning process than documenting it, but I do plan on starting to document some of the projects in the future as well and become more involved with all of your great projects.

In solidarity, brother.  Smiley

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October 14, 2014, 01:48:05 PM
Last edit: October 14, 2014, 05:03:27 PM by practicaldreamer
 #707


 I've had big arguments with communists before turning aggressive and loud calling me bourgeois


They can't have come across Chairman Mao then   Wink

Now there's a man that knew a thing or two about communes.



The change may or may not come from within, facilitated by technological advance.

My feeling is that it will come both from within, and from without. ie. peasant revolts against US exploitation in places like Ecuador, Iraq, Nigeria etc. cutting off the cheap natural resources currently helping to artificially bloat the average US citizens standard of living (which they themselves think is all down to the efficacy of the free market   Grin).

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October 14, 2014, 02:11:09 PM
 #708


 I've had big arguments with communists before turning aggressive and loud calling me bourgeois


They can't have come across Chairman Mao then   Wink

Now there's a man that knew a thing or two about communes.



The change may or may not come from within, facilitated by technological advance.

My feeling is that it will come both from within, and from without. ie. peasant revolts against US exploitation in places like Ecuador, Iraq, Nigeria etc. cutting off the cheap natural resources currently helping to artificially bloat the average US citizens standard of living (which they themselves think is all down to the efficacy of the free market   Grin).




Just listen to the story of millionaire app developer Allen Wong..who came from one of these Chinese commune to United states and after many hardships succeeded bigtime..

How to Get a Lamborghini: Allen Wong's Story
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October 14, 2014, 04:23:05 PM
Last edit: October 14, 2014, 07:06:41 PM by practicaldreamer
 #709


Just listen to the story of millionaire app developer Allen Wong..who came from one of these Chinese commune to United states and after many hardships succeeded bigtime..

How to Get a Lamborghini: Allen Wong's Story

Sounds like a great guy. I don't know what to say. Other than, why the hell would you choose a Lamborghini ? Soon as one of those things breaks down you're fucked - and you realise in an instant how enslaved you are to that which you thought you owned.

What you need is something that is long lived,simple and reliable - something that you are able to turn your hand to fixing yourself should things go wrong. Something that is modular in design and that can be kept going on scrapped parts of other such vehicles. Something all mechanical - without all the ecu's and shit.

  Something like this :
                  


That guy Wong should go for President - you lot love a rags to riches story - someone with a story like that could singlehandedly help to legitimate the exploitative domination, for what ? maybe another generation  Cheesy

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October 14, 2014, 04:46:47 PM
 #710



I wouldn't call my self an anarchist or liberal per say but I do tend towards individualism. I have never voted(US Resident) because I do not feel that I am truly represented by the system that is in place. Some of my friends say that it is surrender but I say it is my refusal to be ignorant of how that system really works and my refusal to take part in that system in any way.

I do not pay taxes, receive social welfare in anyway and basically have as little to do with the system as possible. I basically do what I want when I want as long as it doesn't harm another individual or put my freedom in direct jeopardy. I see wealth as being happy and healthy not as having an abundance of material possessions.



"Socialism is a social and economic system characterised by social ownership of the means of production and co-operative management of the economy"

"Libertarianism (Latin: liber, "free") is a political philosophy that upholds liberty as its principal objective. Libertarians seek to maximize autonomy and freedom of choice, emphasizing political freedom, voluntary association and the primacy of individual judgment."

Socialism and libertarianism are not necessarily opposites. That's the problem with arguing about these ideological dogmas that place people into separating boxes. Start thinking what the values we want to promote are, and develop a deeper political philosophy. These labels are not addressing the root causes. From Wikipedia article on Anarchism:

"As a subtle and anti-dogmatic philosophy, anarchism draws on many currents of thought and strategy. Anarchism does not offer a fixed body of doctrine from a single particular world view, instead fluxing and flowing as a philosophy. There are many types and traditions of anarchism, not all of which are mutually exclusive."

Freedom starts with "I am my own master" but ends before "I am slave to no man". Liberty is the possession of agency, the power to fulfil your own potential. It's important in this modern day and age of mass criminalisation, and of stolen liberties, to understand that the only path to preservation of spirit is through preservation of action.

To preserve our human spirit, we must look not to surrogate father figures, or the great grand institutions but instead to each other, directly from one humble person to another. The Darkness becomes our protective cloak for this nascent perspective.


Very well said.
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October 14, 2014, 05:07:37 PM
 #711

Similarly, they may pollute the atmosphere and increase my chances of getting cancer by a few millionths of a percent, but that is not hurting me much.
A dangerously myopic perspective. When you can't swim in the oceans or even live within 50 miles of any ocean, will it affect you then?

I cannot use youtube unless I stay up past midnight and have not been doing so lately.  I will say that in my nearly half-decade the amount of environmental contamination impacting human health has been drastically reduced.  One just has to open their eyes to see it.  What I am seeing from the environmental movement is sheer panic that there problem is going away so they rely more and more on emotion and pseudo-science bullshit to scare people.  My fear is that this policy will backfire when Joe Sixpack has finally had enough and it actually will result in regressions in environmental protection.

As for how our socialist 'public health' system treats kids
Whoadude, I don't know where you're from but it's sure as shit better not be the United States.

Whatever healthcare system you have, I guarantee you it's better, WAY cheaper, more compassionate, more comprehensive, than the parasite profiteering model for health"care" we have here.

Actually I was thinking about Great Britain when I wrote that.  That is the model that lots of us Americans look to as some shining beacon of hope to help with the epidemic of health problems which somehow nobody can figure out, and our getting scammed out of our life's savings by the health care corp/gov system:

Quote
 
Wakefield quoted Richard Horton, editor of the Lancet about a conversation that Horton had had with “a very successful London professor of public health” who said, “Public health is sick. It’s about nothing more than self-interest; it’s about power, wealth, and status. Public health grandees are wealthy, powerful people interested only in their legacy. Public health has become utterly immoral…. No one will stand up to the forces of money and power that drive the agenda of public health today.”

If that “successful London professor” is right, what can we do about it? Is it too late?

Here's a decent analogy about what we Socialist (and former quasi-socialist like me) are doing in supporting various socialist policies today in the hopes that they will eventually turn into something positive:

We are going to pull and engine out of a car, buy new pistons, rings, etc, spend a ton on machine work, and spend a lot of time and care re-installing the thing.  But we have no motor oil and no reasonable way to get it.  We are just going to say 'fuck it' and fire up the engine to break it in anyway and worry about getting the motor oil later.  It's stupid engineering and it will fail.

If we don't have very strong democracy then Socialism class policies are certain to turn into the same nightmare that vexes other totalitarian regimes (until the collapse into a smoking ruin of misery and environmental devastation.)  Those actually driving what most Leftists mistake for Socialist policies at this point have anything but the public good in mind, and to the extent that they do, it is the same way a rancher wants the best for his herd of cattle.  There is a good point to be made that cutting most of their balls off and medicating them to keep the 'healthy', and eventually slaughtering them to keep the herd size optimal results in a better quality of life for the herd.  That argument resonates strongly with the rancher who just happens to also be making a ton of money off his activities.


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October 14, 2014, 05:12:38 PM
 #712

Bitcoin didn't change my political views but...
Im always pro free speech
Im always pro freedom
Im always pro free-thinking

So im pro bitcoin

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October 14, 2014, 05:38:33 PM
 #713

Milton Friedman explains how big business is the primary beneficiary of government regulations and how the citizens were better off having a free market.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfLhwTs7POU
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October 14, 2014, 05:41:39 PM
 #714

In your ancap society, I guess the land is still owned in the hard, state defined sense at the bottom, which make it different from the ideal master-free society (where everybody is the sovereign of his own self-kingdom). Anyway, it is an interesting approximation of a free society.


Land here is acquired by purchasing or homesteading. Most countries allow for homesteading and the loss of land that is neglected. Many countries allow for water right claims, and other common law rights such as the right to travel, even through private property if other ways are not assessable. The United States is really just the outlier with all the changes over the years removing the rights to homesteading which ended in 1976 (and in 1986 for Alaska) . Land rights are transient and most anarcho-capitalists believe in such a principle. We believe property rights as an extension of self ownership which can be gained or lost. The details as how the state determines property rights and homesteading is far from perfect but also not very different than how it would function in an anarchist society. Anarchists believe in governments and laws , just not in state governments with monopolies of force. Costa Rica is fairly close to that ideal being that it has abolished the military over 60 years ago, thus homesteading is determined by local witnesses and evidence provided to a local judge. Within a purer anarchist society this judge would probably be represented by a group of volunteers and upstanding community members all of the community agreed upon that took on a temporary role of arbitration.  

When you say "most countries" that's where you should drop a reference to back up such a claim.

With respect to homesteading in USA it was mainly a way to force the removal of indigenous peoples (especially in the great plains area where the people lived a nomadic hunting lifestyle---incombatible with land ownership and agriculture). Unless you can back up your "most" claims, I think most people will simply dismiss them.  (Irony intended, to be clear, I will dismiss them but I have no evidence to say what most people will do).

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October 14, 2014, 06:11:47 PM
Last edit: October 14, 2014, 07:03:57 PM by practicaldreamer
 #715

 I will say that in my nearly half-decade the amount of environmental contamination impacting human health has been drastically reduced.  One just has to open their eyes to see it.  

It may have where you live tvb - thats because all the industry that manufactures and, as a consequence, produces pollutants has been shipped off to India/Indonesia etc.
  They don't have EPA over there. The problem still exists - its just been swept under the rug and out of sight.

When I was a kid we used to swim in a river that had purple water - a carpet factory a couple of miles upstream used to pump its shit into it. My uncle worked there as it happens. The factory has since closed down and fish have since returned to the river. You even see the odd kingfisher (this in an urban area btw which makes the sighting of kingfishers all the more impressive). The downside is that there is, as we speak, Indian kids swimming in purple rivers with no fish - and widespread unemployment in my old hometown.

Could I just ask why, for you, regulatory authorities such as EPA (SEPA over here), are synonymous with "socialism" ?


BTW bitcoin hasn't changed my views towards libertarianism. Why ? Amongst many other reasons, the National Health Service.
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October 14, 2014, 07:25:09 PM
 #716

...
Could I just ask why, for you, regulatory authorities such as EPA (SEPA over here), are synonymous with "socialism" ?



I see our EPA/DEQ as being highly empowered both by money which is behind the 'sustainability' movement and public sentiment which has been very successfully cultivated by said.  There is no doubt in my mind after reading their various documents (including Agenda 21 which was a terrible bore) that it is very much a 'socialist' endeavor.

I'll not argue that various pollution problems have been off-shored and moved around.  I've no doubt that it happens, that it sucks, and that the problems should be identified and called out.  I saw no purple rivers in India when I was there, but I don't doubt that they exist.  In central India I saw nothing that I really thought threatened the planet.  Ya, we humans change things and often enough we fuck them up significantly, but to me it's a balancing act rather than a sort of mindless absolutism which I feel infects the largely innumerate 'green' minions in my country at this time.

I know for sure that our waters and air in the state I live (Oregon) are vastly more clean then they were in the 70's.  Other practices that were common 100 years ago and had significant, if localized, environmental impacts are history.  It can be honestly said that I have the environmental movement to thank for this.  So, 'Thanks!'  But as the problems disappear (here) the burdensome of bureaucracy and regulations continues to  grow by leaps and bounds.  Again, what I've been hit with under the guise of 'environmental protection' is flat out straight up racketeering.

In my analysis this racketeering is directly attributable to the 'sustainability' movement.  So much so that the local 'non-profit' watershed association which makes most of their money doing 'stream restoration' has a covert program to work with ICLEI-USA who's goal is to ram humans into dense habitats where 80% of the population lives in stack-n-pack housing in population centers.  The guy who runs lives on his farm out of town with his goats and shit.  The 'elites' are, of course, planning to be the other 20% so it seems.  I found documentation of this watershed organization's activities because our NOAA was not careful with their management of meeting minute documents...the watershed association itself stopped publishing them back in 2011.

BTW bitcoin hasn't changed my views towards libertarianism. Why ? Amongst many other reasons, the National Health Service.

I value your take on things and find your statement above to lack enough info to understand what you are saying so if you have the energy to further clarify I would appreciate it.

BTW, my mom just got back from a visit to Scotland.  She had some friends there (fellow wood carvers) and was able to visit with normal people and see the real country and not do the total tourist thing.  She was very impressed with the country and the people.  This was shortly before the Independence vote and there were passions and rational points on both sides of the issue.

 

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October 14, 2014, 07:31:24 PM
 #717

I was definitely already a libertarian, but bitcoin and blockchain technology has made me rethink humanity in general and how the planet is created and how organisms work together. It's also worked as an incentive to learn how to program and be able to read the source code on github.
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October 14, 2014, 07:49:24 PM
 #718

When you say "most countries" that's where you should drop a reference to back up such a claim.

With respect to homesteading in USA it was mainly a way to force the removal of indigenous peoples (especially in the great plains area where the people lived a nomadic hunting lifestyle---incombatible with land ownership and agriculture). Unless you can back up your "most" claims, I think most people will simply dismiss them.  (Irony intended, to be clear, I will dismiss them but I have no evidence to say what most people will do).



You are correct, upon further research homestead laws were passed in the USA(than repealed), Canada, Australia and many countries in central and south America. As I have mainly traveled in the Americas I assumed that homesteading was common everywhere but appears to be more of a common law principle that became popular in the new world as a means to colonize large amounts of territory.

Although it doesn't refute the principle point of my message and post, I updated the post to ensure accuracy.

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October 14, 2014, 11:24:36 PM
 #719

Milton Friedman explains how big business is the primary beneficiary of government regulations and how the citizens were better off having a free market.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfLhwTs7POU
Yeah, the Gilded Age was a regular paradise for the average citizen  Roll Eyes

Jesus Christ, could you possibly be any historically amnesic? It's stunning how clueless people are about very basic, relatively recent american history.

Remember Aaron Swartz, a 26 year old computer scientist who died defending the free flow of information.
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October 15, 2014, 12:10:32 AM
 #720

Jesus Christ, could you possibly be any historically amnesic? It's stunning how clueless people are about very basic, relatively recent american history.

Let's leave Jesus out of it.  That guy was pure evil.  I don't remember what his exact words were to Judas about poor people, but he basically said something to the effect of "Fuck 'em".  I can't believe people actually revere someone like that.

You and I would never be so cold to these precious people.  I just love how great minds think alike.  Smiley
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