Petition to sticky Dogies manufacturer trustworthiness guide!!

[dogie]

its shocking that this wasn't disclosed and made abundantly clear in your ratings, which manufacturers gave you an incentive and which didn't!?

Holy shit! I hadn't considered that I am biased against every company that is in the list at once! You are also aware that on a 1TH unit, I just about pay for my time, and lose money on anything smaller? I don't see any camera phones over here...

[jimmothy]

The only thing I can say here is that nothing stops a company from sending Dogie a unit that works really well and then still not shipping to their customers after they build hype if Dogie likes it.

There's also the opposite where a companies reputation is hugely affected by sending a faulty testing unit or none at all.

For example btcgarden has zero complaints as far as I can tell yet somehow dogie managed to get the only faulty unit and poor communication.

Point is something so debatable shouldn't be stickied, especially when biases are to be expected.

If it was just my unit - fine - it is just random chance. But the ONLY two reviewers in the Western hemisphere BOTH received dead units, and then received absolutely no interaction from the company to attempt to fix it.... Its statistically impossible given their quoted 0.3% failure rate - which they put down to customer errors anyway. Its less about the failed miners and more about the 'what else are they trying to hide'?

Given that the vast majority of their miners are shipped to the Asian markets where we don't have exposure to, we have to air on the side of caution. And if anyone thinks I'm purposely being biased over $100 of miner rather than trying to protect the community [aka doing my job...], then I'm not sure what planet you live on :/

I think most people agree your ratings are 99% on point and unbiased but what we don't agree on is that there should be an official guide.

I do suppose it wouldn't be so bad if the mods would agree to unsticky it if something (majorly) questionable comes up.

[opieum2]

The service provided by the review is more of a fact finding role and to lessen the perliferation of frivolous claims from hardware venders and scams.

This is the important line.

Setup guide:

• Immediate term
• Does ONE unit match up as its being sold as
• What happens when you push it to the edge of manufacturer's specs?
• What does it look like?
• Will it burn my house down?
• What do I need to get it running?
• Box to hashing, ASAP.
• Later transitions to "FFS WHY ISNT IT MINING OMG".

Trustworthiness thread:

• Long term
• Do ALL units match up as they're being sold, how they're being sold?

The only thing which overlaps is the company names.

Fact is Dogies guide is about as objective as its going to get. He does manage to pull it off. It rates based on their current status not on their hype or his equipment reviews. I personally wish I had that guide early on in my purchase decisions. I am sure there are others who feel the same way. The guide is useful. I mean can someone really question the validity of the various ratings? Sure to some degree. BUT for the most part they are on point. Hence why this post should get some treatment as a sticky. Its a good guide to newbies especially.

[ManeBjorn]

I had a faulty unit as well.  I cannot say if it was shipping damage or not but I did have one DOA.
That being said CrazyGuy and BTC Garden were great and got it replaced ASAP.

The only thing I can say here is that nothing stops a company from sending Dogie a unit that works really well and then still not shipping to their customers after they build hype if Dogie likes it.

There's also the opposite where a companies reputation is hugely affected by sending a faulty testing unit or none at all.

For example btcgarden has zero complaints as far as I can tell yet somehow dogie managed to get the only faulty unit and poor communication.

Point is something so debatable shouldn't be stickied, especially when biases are to be expected.

[Niggle]

I do suppose it wouldn't be so bad if the mods would agree to unsticky it if something (majorly) questionable comes up.
[/quote]

This +1

There are so many scammers and whingers on this forum, many whingers who seem to have joined this thread, that dogies guide (even if its slightly biased but I don't think so) is a breath of fresh air. I say sticky it now and if its ever proved to be unreliable in the future, simply unsticky it.

[bbeesley]

Hear, hear! Sticky that nugget of gold ASAP!

Disagreeing with him makes no difference.  proving the facts makes no difference.  writing to him personally makes no difference.  he is a law unto himself.  Criticism both constructive or otherwise has been ignored.  Several professional miners have pointed out areas where he has not been objective and he's not made any of the changes they recommended.  Suspect any opinion that doesnt agree with his own is ignored.  Even when his own objective measurements are ignored when it suits to say whatever he wants...

You want to substantiate any of those rather aggressive claims?

I've also experienced this with you..I have pointed out errors in your guides and we had quite the discussion about the difference between routers and gateways and you came across in both instances as pompous and knowledgeable beyond your own experience

I appreciate your effort in writing the guides, but they are far too often full of erroneous information and errors and are often thrown together too quickly

They should be taken with a grain of salt and I too don't think that they deserve to be "sticky"

[dogie]

Hear, hear! Sticky that nugget of gold ASAP!

Disagreeing with him makes no difference.  proving the facts makes no difference.  writing to him personally makes no difference.  he is a law unto himself.  Criticism both constructive or otherwise has been ignored.  Several professional miners have pointed out areas where he has not been objective and he's not made any of the changes they recommended.  Suspect any opinion that doesnt agree with his own is ignored.  Even when his own objective measurements are ignored when it suits to say whatever he wants...

You want to substantiate any of those rather aggressive claims?

I've also experienced this with you..I have pointed out errors in your guides and we had quite the discussion about the difference between routers and gateways and you came across in both instances as pompous and knowledgeable beyond your own experience

I appreciate your effort in writing the guides, but they are far too often full of erroneous information and errors and are often thrown together too quickly

They should be taken with a grain of salt and I too don't think that they deserve to be "sticky"

And I've experienced this with you. You had an issue with me referring to a router as the primary DNS server which for 99.9% of people is the same thing, because you had an extremely expensive commercial grade unit at home. You wanted me to change the guide to reflect that, which would have confused everyone....

[bbeesley]

And I've experienced this with you. You had an issue with me referring to a router as the primary DNS server which for 99.9% of people is the same thing, because you had an extremely expensive commercial grade unit at home. You wanted me to change the guide to reflect that, which would have confused everyone....

and it's this obsessive need of yours to get the last word in and be right which simply drives home my point.

you can't take suggestions for improvement and certainly not criticism and therefore are not objective enough to hold the position for which you seek.


as an aside, your previous comment about "routers including DNS" was simply wrong on multiple technical levels and there are a plethora of consumer and professional devices which do not adhere to the non-standard implementation your home gateway permits - but hey, what do I know...I've only spent the last 30 years building and operating networks for some of the largest ISPs in North America  ;-)

[dogie]

and it's this obsessive need of yours to get the last word in...   as an aside your previous comment ... was simply wrong

Pot meet kettle?

Anyway, you're not the one who will get 30 PMs for ANYTHING which isn't as simple and as straight forward as it can be. Simplicity >> everything else.

[opieum2]

EDIT: At request I unlocked this thread to keep the opinions flowing. But I kept the poll locked so people can vote there. Someone made the valid point that any opinions should be aired. Fair enough. However if dogie sees an objection (as I dont see it as fair to him) I will lock this thread as he really should not have defend work he does for free and on his time. That was my reasoning for locking this.

[dogie]

Don't lock it on my behalf, there will always be a minority that feel hard done by because their personal x y z was not moddy coddled and so will take every oppertunity to try and disrupt everything else on a greater scale even though they know its a personal vendetta.

tldr...

 

[psahx]

EDIT: At request I unlocked this thread to keep the opinions flowing. But I kept the poll locked so people can vote there. Someone made the valid point that any opinions should be aired. Fair enough. However if dogie sees an objection (as I dont see it as fair to him) I will lock this thread as he really should not have defend work he does for free and on his time. That was my reasoning for locking this.

I suggest you update the OP, with the poll link.

[taipo]

+1 pin/sticky it

[Bicknellski]

If it were a trustworthiness guide worked on by a committee of consumers and interested parties then maybe it be worth a sticky. As it is now it is just a personal evaluation of the mining scene. It has value but again it is still one persons opinion and that is where it may lack integrity as there needs to be checks and balances in any review system. If you had just 2 or 3 more people contributing and evaluating anonymously it would certainly be worthy of a sticky.

Having said that though. This is the only really in depth guide available currently that attempts to really quantify trustworthiness of fabricators and it is very useful if you simply buy from top people on the list that have ZERO outstanding complaints in these forums. It could be better if there was a team or use of data that was not personally compiled by Dogie (surveys) or takes into account the countless threads that point to inconsistencies in some fabricators trustworthiness who are listed on his guide. Unfortunately this often overlooked or ignored in Dogies' evaluations and where the guide breaks down several times. This is not about "haters" it is about getting a more equitable guide for the community that reflects the complete picture so that fewer people are steered towards those companies still causing problems for customers. Maybe Dogies should look at adding a few people to the team to support his guide the sticky won't get full support of the community otherwise.

[skizzneena]

I agree.  Sticky that sucker right up there!

[Flying Hellfish]

How many times should I vote in the poll thread???

Polls are another joke on this site, with the site admin encouraging alt accounts I can't imagine it is very accurate one way of the other.

[opieum2]

Updated with poll link. Well the poll may or may not take if mods do not listen. Ignoring your community also has its consequences as well. This might be a good social experiment as well to see if mods even reply.

[dogie]

...or takes into account the countless threads that point to inconsistencies in some fabricators trustworthiness who are listed on his guide...

This is the argument that wants all 'bad' companies to have 1 trust - again I don't have control of this in a numerical system. They get the scores the system gives them in each category, which provides an overall score. I'm not sure what adding more people to come to exactly the same conclusion would be. There is no 'dogie smudge factor' with the latest system, its totally open and transparent.

[dogie]

Updated with poll link. Well the poll may or may not take if mods do not listen. Ignoring your community also has its consequences as well. This might be a good social experiment as well to see if mods even reply.

I wouldn't bother with the poll, it will be extremely skewed towards the negative, as you're seeing compared to the thread.

[aerobatic]

Updated with poll link. Well the poll may or may not take if mods do not listen. Ignoring your community also has its consequences as well. This might be a good social experiment as well to see if mods even reply.

I wouldn't bother with the poll, it will be extremely skewed towards the negative, as you're seeing compared to the thread.

The people have voted democratically in the negative, and then you complain that there's no point putting it to a vote because it will always come out negative.   Thats ridiculous!

You also have overwhelming public opinion in this thread that it shouldnt be a sticky due to personal bias and lack of objectivity.. and a public vote that also votes for there to NOT be a sticky.   Democracy in action.

BTW, for a specific example, i asked Cointerra yesterday via email and got a response back today that they claim to have not given you a freebie miner... so unless they are mistaken - your argument that you cant possibly be biassed because all hardware companies have equally given you hardware for free, seems to prove the point that in at least one case, where you didnt get given a freebie... you managed to be very tough on their scores and have received complaints by customers of cointerra that you mis-scored them and you ignore their complaints saying you havnt seen them.... and when i supply links to the somehow 'missed messages' so you can read them again,  you again choose to ignore them, claiming that they were now two weeks old and thus still invalid and not worthy of fixing in your guide.  Your guide remains, still today, unfixed and biassed.

You are definitely welcome to your opinions but your opinions wont be considered to be any sort of official guide until you have rigorous procedures that can eliminate your opinions (and avoid the conflict of having received free hardware from some but not others).  Your scores need to be fact checked and have some semblance of democratic input involved that is above reproach and systematically unbiassed.   Taking freebie miners from the hardware companies IS NOT unbiassed nor trustworthy (ironic, being that its a guide to trustworthiness) !

Dogie, perhaps in the future you could be a bit more magnanimous and allow others to contribute more fairly into the guide scores.. and you might get a different response next time.   Completely owning it and not allowing anyone else's input unless it agrees with your own opinions is the main reason why youve had this negative response.  If the guide was more democratic (decentralised even) or more 'fact based' and less 'opinion based', it would be completely different.