[GUIDE] Bicknellski's Biased & Opinionated Miner Sellers Trustworthiness Guide

[Bicknellski]

[Thumbs Up]

Reputable companies that you can expect delivery on time and to spec and will when they are in error provide reasonable and equitable relief to the customers satisfaction. In no particular order of importance.

AAUER1's Twinfury USB Miner
The ASICMINER Project
IASCICMINER (Asicminer Tube Miner Promoted by FriedCat)
Ben Turas One String Miner
Bitfury
Bitmaintech
BTCGarden
CanaryInTheMine Group Buy AsicMiner Tube's
CrazyGuy's ASICpuppy Miner Reseller
Easy 2 Mine owned by 李培才
Rockminer
Spondoolies Tech
VS3's Nanofury USB Miner
Yiazo

-------------------------------------------



[Thumbs Down]

Unreputable companies that have provided late delivery or not to spec and will not or have yet to provided adequate relief to customers when the company is in error. In no particular order of importance.

KNC
CoinTerra   
Butterfly Labs
HashFast
Bitmine
Technobit
Avalon
Black Arrow
AMT
VMC
nTek
Minersource

-------------------------------------------

[REASONING]

Here is my biased and opinionated guide on purchasing hardware. I am only taking into account which companies have, in my personal assessment, a reputation for delivering on time and to spec without any significant or outstanding customer service issues. This is not a comparative chart it is merely a suggestion for consumers looking for a starting point rather than having to read through all the forums and other media.

As the OP I am willing to move companies in or out of either area given sufficient complaints from customers or sufficient rectification of past indiscretions based sufficient CUSTOMER feedback from those who were injured initially. Feel free to discuss my biased and opinionated ratings in this an unmoderated thread. I value the opinions of actual customers over the fabricator in every case. If you are here to troll me I will simply ignore you and move on to the topic at hand.

Please note there are only two categories so you will need to weigh the merits on your own and determine whether or not you would recommend someone trust a company to deliver on time and to specification and will if in error resolve any and all disputes with their customer base. Let me know if I am missing any fabricators far or wide inside or outside bitcointalk remember NO SCRYPT or ALTCOIN. ONLY SHA256 box makers please. Obviously we will just avoid the outright scams that never shipped a unit right? And please make sure to debate vigorously if you feel I am wrong in my opinion. I will change it based on evidence of customer support for the company is fairly universal.

Remember this guide is just the starting point. You can scan the list and agree or disagree and do your own research. I am giving you my best appraisal based on the reading of the bitcointalk forums and other sources. It is not a comparison of companies. It is just meant to give you a starting point especially for new members to source miners. And as always... read the Caveat Emptor by Gmaxwell and learn any purchase of mining equipment is a crapshoot at best. Good Luck hope it helps you avoid the pitfalls when buying miners.

Oh here is a great rant about ROI. Some rants about Financial ROI by TheRealSteve


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[Bicknellski]

[UPDATES]

25.SEP.2014

Loshia / Marto74 concerted effort to spam this thread goes on. Thanks for keep the thread at the top for me fellas more people get to see the message never buy Technobit. Keep spamming please.

23.SEP.2014

FTC shutsdown BFL

The Federal Trade Commission has filed a civil lawsuit against Butterfly Labs (BFL), an embattled Kansas-based Bitcoin miner manufacturer. The FTC alleges that the company engaged in fraudulent and deceptive practices.

Federal authorities believe that the three named members of the company’s board of directors—Jody Drake (aka Darla Drake), Nasser Ghoseiri, and Sonny Vleisides—spent millions of corporate revenue on all kinds of things, including saunas and guns, while ignoring many customer orders that went unfulfilled or were significantly delayed.

31.AUG.2014

Minersource added to Thumbs Down list. Regardless of the causes no one at this point no one can claim that Minersource has delivered everything promptly, and compensated everyone appropriately. There are a significant number of outstanding issues with this supplier on several fronts. Best to avoid them entirely.

21.AUG.2014

Revised Thumbs Up section with appropriate company name as IASICMINER which is clearly separate from The ASICMINER Project although promoted by FriedCat the people you are dealing with are different than FriedCat. I will continue to review the information if there is more concrete information that The ASICMINER Project and IASICMINER should be considered the same company / people then I will update. As it stands now they are different people given the posts. The suggested edit came from aerobatic which led me to revise in this manner. Thanks for the heads up aerobatic.

19.AUG.2014

Bitmaintech resolves issue. I feel that this was an oversight and they are now compliant I hope.

Dear Community,

Our truly apologies for the mis-understanding reported in this Support Thread. We are very willing to share the cgminer code to the Community.
Just reviewed our internal resource again, there is a little mis-communicaton between Customer Service Team and R&D Department. We thought this task was done 3 weeks ago..  
However, R&D Department is repacking the cgminer code and will upload it to GitHub.com in 3 hours.

Any advice from the Community and Global Customers is appreciated, feel free to contact us via PM or info@bitmaintech.com.

Thank you!

Cgminer 3.12.0 has been uploaded, https://github.com/bitmaintech/cgminer. The latest version will be updated in 2 weeks.

17.AUG.2014

Have added the AsicMiner Tube page here to the list. http://www.iasicminer.com/index.php/action-channel-name-home  
Have added CanaryInTheMine's Group Buy for AsicMiner Tubes here. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=735982.msg8313995#msg8313995

Notice... watching carefully how Bitmaintech handles the calls from CKolivas to provide the code. This could push the rating to Thumbs Down if Bitmaintech doesn't make good on providing the code as per the license. Requested here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=671189.msg8302469#msg8302469

Hi BITMAIN.

As you're an official representative of bitmain, may I ask you to please provide the source code for your modifications to cgminer in the form of the driver for the S3. cgminer is provided under the GPL version 3 license which means you are obliged by law to provide the source code to any modifications you do if you distribute binaries and you are distributing modified cgminer binaries with every S3.

Provision of the source code would allow us to aid the development of your driver and help bring your version to sync up with the latest cgminer to derive the benefits of newer versions along with its many fixes.

16.AUG.2014

Have added a 2 resellers of miners that currently have excellent shipping records.

CrazyGuy's ASICpuppy Miner Reseller (https://asicpuppy.com/magentoPuppy/)
PCFLI Miner Reseller (http://www.easy2mine.com)

[Norcoin_]

KNC togheter with BFL? that's harsh 

[Bicknellski]

KNC togheter with BFL? that's harsh  

Late delivery?

No?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=170332.msg8244455#msg8244455

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=170332.msg8234449#msg8234449

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=170332.msg8194146#msg8194146

Seems to me customers are NOT happy. So my opinion is don't buy KnC.

Same with BFL for obvious reasons.

There are only 2 categories here. Thumbs Up or Thumbs Down. Not doing any "comprehensive" assessment here just basing off a simple set of criteria. Has the company in question delivered on time, to spec and if not have they compensated everyone properly or done everything in their power to provide a fair and equitable solution to the consumers who have legitimate complaints.

[Norcoin_]

KNC togheter with BFL? that's harsh  

Late delivery?

No?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=170332.msg8244455#msg8244455

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=170332.msg8234449#msg8234449

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=170332.msg8194146#msg8194146

Seems to me customers are NOT happy. So my opinion is don't buy KnC.

Same with BFL for obvious reasons.

There are only 2 categories here. Thumbs Up or Thumbs Down. Not doing any "comprehensive" assessment here just basing off a simple set of criteria. Has the company in question delivered on time, to spec and if not have they compensated everyone properly or done everything in their power to provide a fair and equitable solution to the consumers who have legitimate complaints.

Remember this is guide is just the starting point. You can scan the list and agree or disagree and do your own research. I am giving you my best appraisal based on the reading of the bitcointalk forums and other sources. It is not a comparison of companies. It is just meant to give you a starting point for new members to source miners. As always... read the https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=170332.msg8194146#msg8194146 Caveat Emptor from Gmaxwell and learn any purchase of mining equipment is a crapshoot at best. Good Luck.

I got my jupiter that was over spec in time, well almost. I asked for a refund on the neptunes which I got fast. So my experience is that they at least are people with some integrity, more then you can say about anybody at BFL.

Now I remember why I got my refund, they used my money on a datorhall. I changed my mind, thumbs down.

[Bicknellski]

KNC togheter with BFL? that's harsh  

Late delivery?

No?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=170332.msg8244455#msg8244455

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=170332.msg8234449#msg8234449

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=170332.msg8194146#msg8194146

Seems to me customers are NOT happy. So my opinion is don't buy KnC.

Same with BFL for obvious reasons.

There are only 2 categories here. Thumbs Up or Thumbs Down. Not doing any "comprehensive" assessment here just basing off a simple set of criteria. Has the company in question delivered on time, to spec and if not have they compensated everyone properly or done everything in their power to provide a fair and equitable solution to the consumers who have legitimate complaints.

Remember this is guide is just the starting point. You can scan the list and agree or disagree and do your own research. I am giving you my best appraisal based on the reading of the bitcointalk forums and other sources. It is not a comparison of companies. It is just meant to give you a starting point for new members to source miners. As always... read the https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=170332.msg8194146#msg8194146 Caveat Emptor from Gmaxwell and learn any purchase of mining equipment is a crapshoot at best. Good Luck.

I got my jupiter that was over spec in time, well almost. I asked for a refund on the neptunes which I got fast. So my experience is that they at least are people with some integrity, more then you can say about anybody at BFL.

Now I remember why I got my refund, they used my money on a datorhall. I changed my mind, thumbs down.

Thanks for the feedback. Yes there are many stories like those about KnC unfortunately. Can't recommend a company that uses it's customers in that fashion.

[Norcoin_]

I have not used technobit myself, but I have seen that he is very fast on designing new miners. Why thumbs down?

[Bicknellski]

I have not used technobit myself, but I have seen that he is very fast on designing new miners. Why thumbs down?

There are a number of unresolved issues with some customers as well as scores of customers that were poorly treated and lied to directly and this is well documented in the threads. I can not recommend a company that is unwilling to resolve customer complaints. If those who were burned are made whole then I am more than willing to change my opinion. At this point I don't see how that is going to happen given the stance of the company towards some of their customers. Given what passes as customer service it is not a company I would recommend based on even present threads in the last few weeks with regards to RMA's.

This is not a guide on how fast you come to market. It is a guide on how well you deal with the consumer bottomline and there are clearly persistent issues with this company and their treatment of consumers. I would never personally recommend a company that has outstanding issues with the community especially when you might even have suspicions they use multiple accounts to misrepresent their customer service. There is clearly an inordinate amount of NEW members posting on how great the Technobit service is. It is an anomaly that doesn't go unnoticed by senior members and should give you pause about the reality with that company especially given how many complaints there are right up to today.

As an example Avalon would be thumbs down until we are given the whole story of what went down during the chip fiasco last year. You can't rely on a company that has willfully ignored the community asking for accountability. As such you are much better off dealing only with companies that have proven trustworthy. Again my opinion but there is certainly less risk involved dealing with companies on the THUMBS UP side vs. the THUMBS DOWN side.

Bitmain or Rockminer does very well shipping almost real time with minimal delays / pre-order and at a reasonable price. Why not use them over a company that could be suspect? That to me is why you use this guide. You cut through the crap and get to the point. Who is reliable all the time. The pattern continues... be warned.

Update.
The boards are populated and tested @ this stage.
@ the moment each board is tested with heatsink and cooler.
This is a slow process. Then the boards pass 2 hour test each.
Hopefuly will manage to start shipping in Saturday.
Our shipping girl will start contacting you all tommorow for transport details

Anything happening in the shipping department Marto?

Has anyone been contacted by Technobit yet?

Nor I, the bankwire thing that he instructed us to do if we were apart of the group buy hasn't even gone through yet.

My BA order got into Bulgaria on the 8th of August and since then the delivery looks like it has not been picked up yet.

-No update from Marto on this (multiple messages sent in the past week)
-No processing of my order since I made it on the 5th of August and because of that:
-No reference number to send to Marto for him to look into

[Norcoin_]

I have not used technobit myself, but I have seen that he is very fast on designing new miners. Why thumbs down?

There are a number of unresolved issues with some customers as well as scores of customers that were poorly treated and lied to directly and this is well documented in the threads. I can not recommend a company that is unwilling to resolve customer complaints. If those who were burned are made whole then I am more than willing to change my opinion. At this point I don't see how that is going to happen given the stance of the company towards some of their customers. Given what passes as customer service it is not a company I would recommend based on even present threads in the last few weeks with regards to RMA's.

This is not a guide on how fast you come to market. It is a guide on how well you deal with the consumer bottomline and there are clearly persistent issues with this company and their treatment of consumers. I would never personally recommend a company that has outstanding issues with the community.

As an example Avalon would be thumbs down until we are given the whole story of what went down during the chip fiasco last year. You can't rely on a company that has willfully ignored the community asking for accountability. As such you are much better off dealing only with companies that have proven trustworthy. Again my opinion but there is certainly less risk involved dealing with companies on the THUMBS UP side vs. the THUMBS DOWN side.

Bitmain or Rockerbox does very well shipping almost real time with minimal delays / pre-order and at a reasonable price. Why not use them over a company that could be suspect?

My personal choice is Spondoolies and Bitmain. They have both delivered on time, Spondoolies disappointed me a bit with underperforming sp30, but I am sure the compensation will be fair.

[Bicknellski]

I have not used technobit myself, but I have seen that he is very fast on designing new miners. Why thumbs down?

There are a number of unresolved issues with some customers as well as scores of customers that were poorly treated and lied to directly and this is well documented in the threads. I can not recommend a company that is unwilling to resolve customer complaints. If those who were burned are made whole then I am more than willing to change my opinion. At this point I don't see how that is going to happen given the stance of the company towards some of their customers. Given what passes as customer service it is not a company I would recommend based on even present threads in the last few weeks with regards to RMA's.

This is not a guide on how fast you come to market. It is a guide on how well you deal with the consumer bottomline and there are clearly persistent issues with this company and their treatment of consumers. I would never personally recommend a company that has outstanding issues with the community.

As an example Avalon would be thumbs down until we are given the whole story of what went down during the chip fiasco last year. You can't rely on a company that has willfully ignored the community asking for accountability. As such you are much better off dealing only with companies that have proven trustworthy. Again my opinion but there is certainly less risk involved dealing with companies on the THUMBS UP side vs. the THUMBS DOWN side.

Bitmain or Rockminer does very well shipping almost real time with minimal delays / pre-order and at a reasonable price. Why not use them over a company that could be suspect?

My personal choice is Spondoolies and Bitmain. They have both delivered on time, Spondoolies disappointed me a bit with underperforming sp30, but I am sure the compensation will be fair.

Yes I am a customer of both of these companies. I am hopeful that SPTech will compensate in a reasonable fashion. They have in the past. Minor issues with S2 Antminer Bitmaintech boards bouncing out during transport and dead PSU's but compensation was offered but shipping back a PSU makes little sense when you need to get these things up and running asap and the cost of boxing it up and VAT coming back etc just not worth it. Happy with both of these companies so far... and it is clear consumers are very happy with them as well. I am also keen on becoming a ROCKMINER customer soon.

[jimmothy]

Why is btcgarden unreputable?

They have almost no complaints, communication is great, hardware ships immediately, and performs exactly as advertised.

[Bicknellski]

Why is btcgarden unreputable?

They have no complaints, hardware ships immediately and performs exactly as advertised.

Checking the threads... adding links soon.

IPO?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=264696.msg2922342#msg2922342

Does that not merit concerns for people?
Can you trust them given this sort of past behaviour?

Scanning threads for more.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=622439.msg8147577#msg8147577 <-- Delivery 3 - 7 days... on spec only minor issues and they are very responsive and helpful in thread.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=622439.msg8288576#msg8288576 <-- Responsive to customer calls for discounting of pricing.

I am moving them to Thumbs Up and will continue scanning. Thanks for the heads up Jimmothy.

But still let us have a serious discussion about the aborted IPO... doesn't that give you pause even with the good shipping etc I wonder how many people were hurt in the IPO. Smells bad can you give any insight into that? I will start reading through the IPO stuff now and comment later.

[jimmothy]

Why is btcgarden unreputable?

They have no complaints, hardware ships immediately and performs exactly as advertised.

Checking the threads... adding links soon.

IPO?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=264696.msg2922342#msg2922342

Does that not merit concerns for people?
Can you trust them given this sort of past behaviour?

Scanning threads for more.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=622439.msg8147577#msg8147577 <-- Delivery 3 - 7 days... on spec only minor issues and they are very responsive and helpful in thread.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=622439.msg8288576#msg8288576 <-- Responsive to customer calls for discounting of pricing.

I am moving them to Thumbs Up and will continue scanning. Thanks for the heads up Jimmothy.

But still let us have a serious discussion about the aborted IPO... doesn't that give you pause?

I'm not sure what concerns the IPO raises. An IPO is much better than crowdfunding via preorders like avalon/bitfury/knc. I invested in the IPO and what happened was someone made phony complaints to the local police after the IPO was successful. IPO was cancelled because of the legal risks and every bitcoin was returned. Nobody was unhappy with how it turned out as far as I could tell.

They funded a generation of asics with their own money (designed/produced their own chips and all) and if they were scammers they would have ran with the few thousand BTC they raised during that IPO instead of returning it all.

[Bicknellski]

Why is btcgarden unreputable?

They have no complaints, hardware ships immediately and performs exactly as advertised.

Checking the threads... adding links soon.

IPO?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=264696.msg2922342#msg2922342

Does that not merit concerns for people?
Can you trust them given this sort of past behaviour?

Scanning threads for more.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=622439.msg8147577#msg8147577 <-- Delivery 3 - 7 days... on spec only minor issues and they are very responsive and helpful in thread.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=622439.msg8288576#msg8288576 <-- Responsive to customer calls for discounting of pricing.

I am moving them to Thumbs Up and will continue scanning. Thanks for the heads up Jimmothy.

But still let us have a serious discussion about the aborted IPO... doesn't that give you pause?

I'm not sure what concerns the IPO raises. An IPO is much better than crowdfunding via preorders like avalon/bitfury/knc. I invested in the IPO and what happened was someone made phony complaints to the local police after the IPO was successful. IPO was cancelled because of the legal risks and every bitcoin was returned. Nobody was unhappy with how it turned out as far as I could tell.

They funded a generation of asics with their own money (designed/produced their own chips and all) and if they were scammers they would have ran with the few thousand BTC they raised during that IPO instead of returning it all.

Raises many concerns if investors were hurt.

Are there instances of people being hurt in that IPO?

Or did everyone get money back and are or were not overly concerned with being dumped as investors?

Given what little I have read seems to be that they reimbursed everyone although there are some people who were at the time very pissed off. Not sure how that translates into loses at the time. But again that is something people need to consider when making a choice to buy. Ethics could be questioned here should there be some in the community that still feel this company can't be trusted. Anyhow doesn't look like you want to discuss what went on so I will have to review the thread on my own and ask people who were pissed at the time as IPO investors are still pissed now or feel injured as a result. Given their openness and delivery and zero issues with current shipping etc I feel comfortable putting them in the Thumbs Up on your advice. Thanks again.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=264696.msg2915126#msg2915126 <-- Example of pissed investor suggesting impropriety in the IPO compensation.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=264696.msg2914929#msg2914929 <-- Reason for cancelling the IPO.

Unlike Avalon who never came forward and explained what happened to our CHIPS and blaming the whole thing on Yifu without any clarification... I am much more comfortable with BTC Garden given how they rectified the IPO even with some complaints and how they deal in real time with customers in the thread as you pointed out. It is often more about how companies handle the problems than a seamless delivery on spec in my estimation.

[bbxx]

Why is btcgarden unreputable?

They have almost no complaints, communication is great, hardware ships immediately, and performs exactly as advertised.

i can confirm this, their miners are very stable and working as advertised.
communication is perfect.

[dogie]

Maybe you should concentrate on wasp rather than proving than no one will ever be happy with any answer anyone comes up with, even one as basic as good or bad.

[Xian01]

Maybe you should concentrate on wasp rather than proving than no one will ever be happy with any answer anyone comes up with, even one as basic as good or bad.

Amen.

The Wasp project has become a big joke to me as a result of Bicks' social-justice-warrior efforts here.

*mumbles something about glass-houses*

[wpgdeez]

Maybe you should concentrate on wasp rather than proving than no one will ever be happy with any answer anyone comes up with, even one as basic as good or bad.

A little competition never hurt anyone.

[Bicknellski]

Interesting.

Attack the man.

Goes without saying you seem to ignore the point of others offering you advice.

How about you work on your thread and how transparent it is and I will work on mine and as for working on the Wasp there are 54 other people you included that are members of that group. Feel free to step up and do more if you like. As for Xian01... he should go worry about BCP19 and the BFL thread seems he can't leave that mole alone.

Interesting that no one commented on the ratings. Laughable.

Maybe you should concentrate on wasp rather than proving than no one will ever be happy with any answer anyone comes up with, even one as basic as good or bad.

Amen.

The Wasp project has become a big joke to me as a result of Bicks' social-justice-warrior efforts here.

*mumbles something about glass-houses*

EDIT: More to the point and the main reason a simple thumbs up thumbs down like this is more in keeping with the consumer focus that is required here in these forums. It really seems to me that the OTHER COMPREHENSIVE GUIDE is more about being fair to the manufacturer than being responsible to the consumer. So much for listening to the community.

Refunds are significantly delayed and they have used stall tactics.  You act insulted when people question your ratings, but you choose to ignore these serious problems.  I was supposed to be refunded 3 months ago.  It's really significant actually.  And they use stall tactics.

You are not helping the little guys when you ignore this stuff.  Some of us can't afford to lose that money, and if you rate them as 'fine' they have no real reason to pay us back.  

"1 - refunds significantly delayed or not being processed at all. Includes stall tactics."  is the truth

[Bicknellski]

Maybe you should concentrate on wasp rather than proving than no one will ever be happy with any answer anyone comes up with, even one as basic as good or bad.

A little competition never hurt anyone.

I am not in competition with his version.

I am posting this as a guide to people who may not want to spend an inordinate time reading all the reasons why he arrived at a score and then ignore the consumers who have complained about company X or Y. Let me make it brutally clear that this is a biased guide that is CONSUMER CENTRIC not MANUFACTURER CENTRIC unlike his guide.  

Again it is always on the consumer to make the choice. I hope what I provide is the starting point for people to make a better informed decision. I don't know anyone with any time spent in these forums that is going to complain much about this "system" because I am willing to actually listen to people if they have concerns about my ratings and change them. Unlike those that think they have a system without bias or a personal skew. Don't take my word for it. Just go read his thread... plenty of justifiable complaints there.