[ANN] [XCH] ★ ClearingHouse - Freedom by Blockchain ★

[btcdrak]

it would be nice to have the wallet translated to at least Chinese

they are trying at counterwallet but the web app they picked i think kind of sucks for the purpose (can't even donate)

i'll donate some XCH if anyone does the translate or manages the translation process

Actually, we can :-)

Chinese translators can participate here: https://www.transifex.com/projects/p/clearwallet/

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[AnthonyWittgenstein]

I totally agree - a Chinese translation would be a Slam Dunk!

For the ClearWallet exchange, I'm really hoping for a longer term solution (like an escrow, as mentioned by Drak) that will eliminate these short term birth pangs.

More importantly, as both Peter Todd and Drak say - centralized systems are BETTER at some things.  We need a healthy symbiosis of centralized and decentralized systems.  

Like Peter Thiel says - it's NOT human vs. computer, it's human AND computers.  Akin to centralized AND decentralized systems.  Drop the false dichotomies - we need both!

I realized very quickly that ClearWallet is not going to be some high frequency, day trading platform - the centralized exchanges are obviously better at that.  BUT, for longer term trading ranges ClearWallet is very safe and effective, AND you don't have to worry about MintPal storing your coins in one of their "hot wallets"...LOL

Also, a good escrow in ClearWallet would be an extremely VALUABLE feature.  Being able to exchange coins, assets, notarized documents, etc. in a TRUSTLESS manner with ANYONE on planet Earth who has an internet connection - this is a quantum leap forward in technological progress!  

AND drak even mentioned that the receiving party will be able to cryptographically "sign" to PROVE that they received the asset.  Drak calls this "custody chains" that they are developing!  

Drak made it sound like custody chains would be most effective at PROVING the transfer of real world assets.  Think of Amazon shipping you a package.  Each step of the way (warehouse to regional shipping center to local shipping center, then to your house) someone can cryptographically sign with Custody Chains to prove that the transfer of the colored coin in ClearWallet called "iPod 300 GB" actually corresponds to the transfer of the real world asset "iPod 300 GB".

Put simply - Custody Chains helps solve the problem of:  making the transfer of an online asset (Colored Coin) correspond to the transfer of its "real world" physical equivalent, and proving ownership of the asset.

I'm just thinking out loud here, but I just realized Custody Chains actually does 2 things:
a)  instant transfer of digital assets  (for example, an engineering design; a piece of music; computer code...etc.)

b)  transfer of Colored Coins that represent real world assets  

For example:  I can create a token in ClearWallet to represent my used iPod with serial number etc...then I can sell it to anyone in the world - they put their money in escrow - I package my iPod and on the box I place a QR code which corresponds to my colored coin - then I hand it off to my local FedEx (or whomever) where they scan it - then they ship it to the regional center...etc. until it's delivered to my customer where she must sign for it...as soon as she signs for it, her escrow money is instantly transferred into my account - VOILA

Now here's the important part - at each step as my iPod box is handed off from seller - to local shipper - to regional shipper - etc. - then finally to the customer...at each hand off there is a digital signing where RESPONSIBILITY and LIABILITY for the physical asset is also handed off.  So if the customer never receives her iPod in the mail, she can't sign for it, which means that I never receive my escrow money and I'm also out my iPod...in that case, the last person to sign for it (the regional shipping center, for example) would be liable to pay me for my lost iPod, and the customer's escrow money would simply be returned!  Cool system!

Sorry for the length...I'm just trying to explain and detail the immense power of Colored Coins, ClearWallet notary, and ClearWallet Custody Chains, and how these technologies can instantly become useful in our everyday lives and also empower us in the process!

[btcdrak]

AnthonyWittgenstein,

You definitely "get it". Coloured coins" are just fancy accounting systems. CustodyChains (no space) provides a solution because while digital assets can be transferred and secured by cryptography, it's not the case with real world assets unless you have a way of tying virtual and real worlds together.

With regards to centralisation - careful: what we're saying is centralised systems do certain jobs a lot better than bitcoin. Visa/Mastercard are better payment systems than Bitcoin in terms of scalability. Blockchains dont remotely scale to Visa/Mastercard size. Paypal and eBay are actually fantastic systems that also have workable consumer protection solutions. Decentralised systems have a long way to go to compete. Bitcoin is however very disruptive to the status quo because to the users at least, it has cheaper transaction costs (even though on a macro level it's currently very expensive to run taking into account the costs of running the network divided by tx volume). Remember though, Bitcoin is not just a payment system, it's so much more and that is why it is a disruptive revolution.

TreeChains solves the scalability issue of the blockchain. You could have HFT trading of micropayment channels using it.

I dont know what the future will look like: decentralisation is preferable where it can be made to work and I dont think we should compromise on trying to find solutions for it. But then again, I dont see the point in trying to just replicate eBay and Paypal on the blockchain. We need to do better than that and that's why we need more R&D.

[AnthonyWittgenstein]

Drak,
Thanks for the detailed reply  

Tree Chains would be a gamechanger, but it's CustodyChains that really excite me due to the simple fact that they:
a)  have a much higher probability of being created and used
b)  they can solve identifiable problems we have right now
c)  they seem like a natural product of synthesizing existing technologies into something extremely useful!

This point from Andy Kessler's book "Eat People" sums up what I'm trying to say:

"Successful entrepreneurs get rich not because they are gouging wealth from society but because they create so much wealth for society by MAKING IT MORE EFFICIENT the little piece of that wealth they take ends up being a huge number."

Also, I'm not sure if you saw my other comment, but make sure you read Peter Thiel's new book "Zero to One" (or get the audiobook) - it is a must read for you right now.  He explains how he built PayPal, and what he learned in the process.  His initial vision for PayPal was "build an online currency to replace the US dollar"...the book is simply outstanding, loaded with wisdom, and highly relevant to XCH and VIA!

[btcdrak]

AnthonyWittgenstein,

Cool. I will get the audiobook - I've no time to read!

[AnthonyWittgenstein]

Trust me...you will have Peter F'in Thiel as your personal mentor guiding you through your project...he makes a lot of "you must get this right" points...subtitle:

"Notes on Startups, or How to Build the Future"

...perfect for VIA and XCH

[wom1979]

Trust me...you will have Peter F'in Thiel as your personal mentor guiding you through your project...he makes a lot of "you must get this right" points...subtitle:

"Notes on Startups, or How to Build the Future"

...perfect for VIA and XCH

Excellent break down Anthony - i grasp the fundamentals now.  Thanks
Brilliant work Drak. The next 12 months are going to be an exciting ride!

Extremely inspiring.

Thanks

[btcdrak]

BTER have added a XCH/BTC trading pair.

https://bter.com/trade/XCH_BTC

[btcdrak]

BTER have added a XCH/BTC trading pair.

https://bter.com/trade/XCH_BTC

In case people want to do their sums, remember XCH was created with the following metrics:

Final totals: 103,837,396.51 XCH created for 1,087,511.79269591 VIA. The XCH supply is now permanently fixed.

[masternode]

Here's some quick and very relevant metrics worth pointing out.

First, congratulations to all of you holding XCH at these prices.  Let me explain why.

Lets do a quick estimation.  Total VIA converted into XCH is around 9.6% of all VIA.  Unless I'm mistaken, that means we say the total XCH is worth around 10% of total VIA.  So with the market cap of VIA sitting at $1.126M, that puts the market cap of XCH at around $112,000.  

Now look at four very simple things.

1.) XCH has competent developers advancing the coin / exchange.  
2.) XCH was just listed on BTer, easily one of the most exciting exchanges it could be listed on (again Drak overdelivering)
3.) XCH is 25 x faster than XCP (as VIA is 25 x faster than BTC), and I believe speed is critical in p2p transactions (or any transaction for that matter).
4.) XCP (Counterparty) has a market cap of $5.13M & BitsharesX has a marketcap of $63M.  (I'm not saying XCH should immediately be valued in near these, but as time progresses and the platform gets traction, I'd be very surprised if it wasn't priced at least near XCP).

I can't think of another coin as undervalued as XCH is right now, except maybe Bitmark.  The utility of Clearinghouse should be obvious, and with time (just as it took Counterparty time) you'll see more and more users migrating over to this platform, simply because it's so damn fast and with transactions speed is everything.  But what's most exciting is that XCP shows us clearly where a "comparable" is priced at.  In fact, if you look at any bitcoin2.0 play, you'll notice they tend to have some of the highest market caps in the space (XCP, BTSX, etc.).  So unless I'm living in the twilight zone, I think you'll see XCH eventually surface significantly in value.  It's very clearly and mathematically not supposed to be anywhere near a $112k market cap.  

Just my 2 cents to help put things in perspective.

-Ed  

[prophetx]

Here's some quick and very relevant metrics worth pointing out.

First, congratulations to all of you holding XCH at these prices.  Let me explain why.

Lets do a quick estimation.  Total VIA converted into XCH is around 9.6% of all VIA.  Unless I'm mistaken, that means we say the total XCH is worth around 10% of total VIA.  So with the market cap of VIA sitting at $1.126M, that puts the market cap of XCH at around $112,000.  

Now look at four very simple things.

1.) XCH has competent developers advancing the coin / exchange.  
2.) XCH was just listed on BTer, easily one of the most exciting exchanges it could be listed on (again Drak overdelivering)
3.) XCH is 25 x faster than XCP (as VIA is 25 x faster than BTC), and I believe speed is critical in p2p transactions (or any transaction for that matter).
4.) XCP (Counterparty) has a market cap of $5.13M & BitsharesX has a marketcap of $63M.  (I'm not saying XCH should immediately be valued in near these, but as time progresses and the platform gets traction, I'd be very surprised if it wasn't priced at least near XCP).

I can't think of another coin as undervalued as XCH is right now, except maybe Bitmark.  The utility of Clearinghouse should be obvious, and with time (just as it took Counterparty time) you'll see more and more users migrating over to this platform, simply because it's so damn fast and with transactions speed is everything.  But what's most exciting is that XCP shows us clearly where a "comparable" is priced at.  In fact, if you look at any bitcoin2.0 play, you'll notice they tend to have some of the highest market caps in the space (XCP, BTSX, etc.).  So unless I'm living in the twilight zone, I think you'll see XCH eventually surface significantly in value.  It's very clearly and mathematically not supposed to be anywhere near a $112k market cap.  

Just my 2 cents to help put things in perspective.

-Ed  

the best thing that could be done is to develop the CFD market, and perhaps some other markets like gold, silver, euro and a few crypto baskets around the CFD


along with the typical stuff like going after game developers and advertisers that want to have special crypto secured digital assets/coupons, etc

[AnthonyWittgenstein]

Sound post, Ed

No, you're not in the twilight zone...(unless we both are!  I guess that is a possibility...lol)

I couldn't agree more - XCH is a very solid VALUE investment.  The crypto ballgame all boils down to active development, and VIA & XCH not only have active development, but highly skilled, highly creative, and highly competent developers.  

Even more than that - they're working on tangible problems that matter!  As mentioned in my previous post:
a)  ClearWallet escrow
b)  ClearWallet notary
c)  CustodyChains digital asset transfer
d)  CustodyChains colored coins transfer (i.e. real world, physical asset transfer)

These are 4 super meaningful, SUBSTANTIVE developments that will instantly make ClearWallet one of the most valuable tools in all of crypto (when and to what extent the price reflects that value is another question)...but as Warren Buffet's mentor - Benjamin Graham - taught him:  

"In the short run, the market is like a voting machine--tallying up which firms are popular and unpopular. But in the long run, the market is like a weighing machine--assessing the substance of a company."

That's all you need to know...focus on solid development and solve real world problems and your product will be massively valuable!

Escrow, notary, transfer, and CustodyChains are gamechanging developments in crypto...not to mention the future possibilities of a reputation system and tree chains!

[suchnekky]

how do i buy this coin now? say if i wanted to buy a few btc worth at the current rate, is there an exchange? someone give me some basic steps, in return ill send you some via.

i already have burned a few thru clearwallet, but as far as i can see the clearwallet exchange has not got enough for sale.

[btcdrak]

how do i buy this coin now? say if i wanted to buy a few btc worth at the current rate, is there an exchange? someone give me some basic steps, in return ill send you some via.

i already have burned a few thru clearwallet, but as far as i can see the clearwallet exchange has not got enough for sale.

Bter has XCH/BTC pair now.

[suchnekky]

how do i buy this coin now? say if i wanted to buy a few btc worth at the current rate, is there an exchange? someone give me some basic steps, in return ill send you some via.

i already have burned a few thru clearwallet, but as far as i can see the clearwallet exchange has not got enough for sale.

Bter has XCH/BTC pair now.

yet its selling at x10 the price, is there anywhere else? nxt?

[PilotofBTC]

BTER have added a XCH/BTC trading pair.

https://bter.com/trade/XCH_BTC

In case people want to do their sums, remember XCH was created with the following metrics:

Final totals: 103,837,396.51 XCH created for 1,087,511.79269591 VIA. The XCH supply is now permanently fixed.

So, that's 95 XCH = 1 Via.

or

1 XCH = .0105 VIA

or

1 XCH = 284 sat based on VIA at 25700sat.

Disclaimer, this may be wrong, and I did some slight rounding.

Of course, at this point there is no reason for the XCH/Via price ratio to remain at 95:1.

[Lore06]

Congrats to everyone who owns XCH.

Quick question: it seems that i can't send my XCH coins to Bter.

My wallet says: enter Viacoin Address.
It should ask for a XCH address.

[reorder]

Congrats to everyone who owns XCH.

Quick question: it seems that i can't send my XCH coins to Bter.

My wallet says: enter Viacoin Address.
It should ask for a XCH address.

There is no such thing as XCH address. In fact, BTER provides you with VIA address to send XCH to.

[andreibi]

Congrats to everyone who owns XCH.

Quick question: it seems that i can't send my XCH coins to Bter.

My wallet says: enter Viacoin Address.
It should ask for a XCH address.

Your via address is your xch address. Colored coins, remember? XCH sits on top of VIA.

[trustme]

Quick question. this may be stupid. I have VIA. Should I exchange for XCH or keep via or it doesn't matter as far as value is concerned. Are they both worth the same?