[ANN] [XCH] ★ ClearingHouse - Freedom by Blockchain ★

[masternode]

http://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/clearinghouse/#charts

[EtherCoin]

Asset exchange still looking really messy.

So basically I want to scout the XCH/VIA market, everything goes normal, I can see the chart, order books, etc.

10 seconds and I get a timeout message.

Go back a step to exchange, then select XCH/VIA again. I can see the charts and SELL order book but not BUY side.

I place an order, and regardless of the bid amount I enter, it keeps saying after a few secs that the quantity is not valid due to error in decimals or something like that. There is no margin for errors since I am copy/past'ing.

I try to do it fast before the error pops, the buy order is confirmed but I still cannot see it, nor the other buy orders.

I decide to purchase the cheapest SELL order. Proceed to do so, succeeded after a few mins. Decided to send the recently purchased XCH to an address generated exclusively to hold these. More than 5 minutes have passed and still not succeeded.

Still cannot see BUY order book side.

All this process being painfully slow, and feeling dangerous and unstable.

--

Would like to ask. Is it my particular problem or is somewhat generalized? And what are the plans in order to improve speed and stability in the clearwallet exchange? As for now, doesn't look ready for real time trading.

Eth.

[AnthonyWittgenstein]

@EtherCoin  What browser are you using?  At first, some people said Firefox was the issue, but I use Firefox, and ClearWallet is actually working extremely well now with Firefox - I'm not having any of the error issues or any problems seeing the "buy side" order book. 

To be honest, ClearWallet even seems to be running quicker and more smoothly for me now.

The 1 thing that I did notice is that I can no longer access the "betting" feature as it says "it's not allowed in my country" (which is USA)...I certainly understand that Amerika is a mess, and the bastards from NYC will try to use the legal system to eliminate all competition. 

I'm very happy that the UK seems to be encouraging crypto innovation, AND now that Russia is attacking crypto, it seems that the UK will encourage it even more  

Drak, I'm just curious...what are the country restrictions for the betting features in ClearWallet (and what is your exact reasoning for this)?

P.S.  I 100% support this proactive move on your part

[btcdrak]

@EtherCoin  What browser are you using?  At first, some people said Firefox was the issue, but I use Firefox, and ClearWallet is actually working extremely well now with Firefox - I'm not having any of the error issues or any problems seeing the "buy side" order book.  

To be honest, ClearWallet even seems to be running quicker and more smoothly for me now.

The 1 thing that I did notice is that I can no longer access the "betting" feature as it says "it's not allowed in my country" (which is USA)...I certainly understand that Amerika is a mess, and the bastards from NYC will try to use the legal system to eliminate all competition.  

I'm very happy that the UK seems to be encouraging crypto innovation, AND now that Russia is attacking crypto, it seems that the UK will encourage it even more  

Drak, I'm just curious...what are the country restrictions for the betting features in ClearWallet (and what is your exact reasoning for this)?

P.S.  I 100% support this proactive move on your part

clearwallet works best with Chrome, then Firefox.

The US is known for interpreting laws however is convenient to the prosecutor of the day. While all bets are done p2p on the blockchain and in fact anyone can bypass the technical restrictions by running their own client, we chose to be more cautious. If the NYDFS were to enact laws that restrict the freedoms of software developers for example, expect technical IP based restrictions exactly as Circle indicted they would do.

@EtherCoin, since clearwallet is a browser, clientside app, it's entirely possible timeouts occur if connectivity is poor. The DEx probably refreshes too often also so that irritates the orderbook experience too, but it seems there are orders going through so I'm not sure it's a wider problem. Feel free to email me with screenshots and ways to replicate the issues. If I can replicate, I can fix.

Just a word, clearwallet is offline for a few minutes while it reparses the blockchain for the recent protocol updates (which enable the blockchain notary protocol on mainnet from block 275000). Please note the UI is not enabled on mainnet until block 275000.

[derrend]

What I don't understand about xch (and xcp for that matter) is why it has any value at all?
As I understand it I can create an unlimited amount of assets with only 0.5 (or 0.05, can't remember right now) xch.
I can't imagine why anyone issuing any assets would ever use more than the minimum amount so for all intents and purposes even though the amount is limited it may as well be infinite.

As an average user i'll be using via as a medium of exchange and xch on the rarest of occasions when I want to do something special which will be almost never and when I do you can rest assured i'll be doing it as cheaply as humanly possible.

It's for this reason I didn't burn any via but I see lots of congratulations going to current holders of xch?

xcp graph for the past year and almost certainly the future of xch for the next few years:


Am I wrong?

EDIT:
Yes I am wrong. The cost of asset creation is 1 XCP and 0.005 VIA.

[EtherCoin]

@EtherCoin, since clearwallet is a browser, clientside app, it's entirely possible timeouts occur if connectivity is poor. The DEx probably refreshes too often also so that irritates the orderbook experience too, but it seems there are orders going through so I'm not sure it's a wider problem. Feel free to email me with screenshots and ways to replicate the issues. If I can replicate, I can fix.

Thanks for the answer, drake.

failoverAPI: Call failed (failed over across all servers). Method: get_market_details; Last error: Request Time out.

Now regarding the missing book orders view and other stuff, today I've logged in and I can see the BUY order book side, but not my BUY order, which is:



Not being present in the BUY order book area:



--

Notes:

1. I am using chrome as browser
2. My connection isn't the best, but I can see streaming video in HD without much glitches, just to give you a comparison, wouldn't have to have any problem with cleawallet IMO.

Eth.

[AnthonyWittgenstein]

@derrend  My obvious answer is:  if you "almost certainly know the future of XCH", then why bother participating in this thread?

My substantive answer is:  read my previous posts on this thread if you really want to know the value proposition for XCH going forward.  

As for XCP vs. XCH:
1.  Counterparty is painfully slow as it's on the Bitcoin blockchain (10 min. blocktime)
2.  Since XCP is on the BTC blockchain, there's tons of politics holding-back innovation (whereas Drak and Peter Todd have complete control over the Viacoin protocol)

XCH developments in progress:
1.  ClearWallet notary
2.  ClearWallet escrow
3.  ClearWallet digital asset transfer
4.  ClearWallet Colored Coins transfer (i.e. "real life" physical asset transfer)
5.  CustodyChains - proof of ownership and receipt for transfer of assets

These are spelled-out in detail in my other posts, and Drak also made some recent posts about them as well.  Each one of these innovations is a substantive advancement in blockchain technology (i.e. VALUABLE innovations that do not exist right now).

It comes down to active development and MEANINGFUL development, and Drak and Peter Todd are simply creating tools that will dramatically empower the users as well as eliminate inefficient (and dramatically overpaid) middlemen. (read my previous quote from Andy Kessler on why and how this creates wealth)

To reiterate - Drak and Peter Todd understand the big picture - ClearWallet is not an "end in itself", but rather a "means to an end" to ensure Freedom, Liberty, and personal empowerment in the 21st century and digital age.  It's a TRUSTLESS system where you are empowered with the tools to do things on your own and aren't forced to use the tools provided by centralized systems: banks, online retailers, lawyers, notaries, patent offices, escrow services...etc.

[suchnekky]

lets all tweet @BittrexExchange & @MintpalExchange and get this baby started.

[derrend]

if you "almost certainly know the future of XCH", then why bother participating in this thread?

Profit

Counterparty is painfully slow

I know this pain

All I was trying to point out is that since trillions of tokens can be created with a few cents worth of XCP why on earth would you expect to make significant financial gains on such a commodity?
I recognise its deflationary nature since no more can exist, but still.

[jokumat]

@derrend

You might have a point here.

Based on my experience with BTC/XCP  I think XCH will be both cheaper and easier to use to trade in ClearingHouse. Via will be more expensive and more clumsy to use - because of technical limitations.

You are saying

As an average user i'll be using via as a medium of exchange and xch on the rarest of occasions when I want to do something special which will be almost never and when I do you can rest assured i'll be doing it as cheaply as humanly possible.

But Using Via now - you have to pay 1% fee to miners. It's much more than with XCH.

So my hope is that XCH will be more useful for trading. This is why it should be valuable. I might be wrong, of course.

[masternode]

What I don't understand about xch (and xcp for that matter) is why it has any value at all?
As I understand it I can create an unlimited amount of assets with only 0.5 (or 0.05, can't remember right now) xch.
I can't imagine why anyone issuing any assets would ever use more than the minimum amount so for all intents and purposes even though the amount is limited it may as well be infinite.

As an average user i'll be using via as a medium of exchange and xch on the rarest of occasions when I want to do something special which will be almost never and when I do you can rest assured i'll be doing it as cheaply as humanly possible.

It's for this reason I didn't burn any via but I see lots of congratulations going to current holders of xch?

xcp graph for the past year and almost certainly the future of xch for the next few years:


Am I wrong?

Yes you are very wrong.  The chart you posted clearly shows why you are wrong, more specifically look at the Market Cap that XCP had upon release vs. the Market Cap XCH currently has.  XCP market cap was over $25M at one point.  XCH currently has a market cap of $200k.  

If your logic holds true then that means XCH will likely dwindle down to having a market cap of around $40k.  Given the team behind this coin amongst many other things, it should be easy to see there is no way this coin should ever be valued anywhere near $40k.  Hell, if anything looking at that chart affirms to me there is no way this coin should be valued anywhere near $200k.  

[yo2monty]

Just a word, clearwallet is offline for a few minutes while it reparses the blockchain for the recent protocol updates (which enable the blockchain notary protocol on mainnet from block 275000). Please note the UI is not enabled on mainnet until block 275000.

Cool! the blockchain notary is alive now in clearwallet.

[litecoin111]

bter xch withdrawal stuck at processing...waiting for balance..any ideas?

[btcdrak]

bter xch withdrawal stuck at processing...waiting for balance..any ideas?

Better contact their support.

[derrend]

You might have a point here.

No I don't, it actually costs 1 XCP per asset creation so it's far rarer than I thought.

Yes you are very wrong.

I think you are probably right

[EtherCoin]

@drak, what are your thoughts and possible counter-strategy regarding counterparty recent alliance with overstock combined with the latest Gavin Andresen's reports https://bitcoinfoundation.org/2014/10/a-scalability-roadmap/ ?

Eth.

[wom1979]

@drak, what are your thoughts and possible counter-strategy regarding counterparty recent alliance with overstock combined with the latest Gavin Andresen's reports https://bitcoinfoundation.org/2014/10/a-scalability-roadmap/ ?

Eth.

http://www.coindesk.com/overstock-hires-counterparty-developers-build-cryptosecurity-stock-exchange/

[AnthonyWittgenstein]

Patrick Byrne Wired.com article  (October 6, 2014)
http://www.wired.com/2014/10/overstock-com-assembles-coders-build-bitcoin-like-stock-market/

...he’s committing between five and ten percent of Overstock’s cash flow—”single-digit millions”—to the company’s cryptosecurity project. “Building this—and being the company that owns this—can be more valuable than Overstock,” Byrne says. “It can be more valuable than Alibaba.”

“This could be as big or bigger than the internet,” Bryne says.
_____________________________________________________________________

The potential implications of this are simply MIND-BOGGLING! 

Byrne hired the Counterparty developers, but I don't see where he explicitly says that he'll be using Counterparty (which would be a surprise to all those who just panic-bought XCP...lol).

I've listened to most of Byrne's YouTube videos from this year, and only a few months ago he said, "I'm looking to hire programmers who are familiar with blockchain technologies and turing complete programming languages; if you qualify, please get in contact with us" (which instantly made me think he was planning on using Ethereum to launch his cryptosecurities).

I personally think that the Counterparty guys got in contact with Patrick and NOT the other way around.  Byrne was bascially inviting applicants, and I bet the XCP guys jumped at the opportunity.

Byrne DOES SAY that he wants his cryptosecurity platform to run on the Bitcoin blockchain as it is the most secure and time-tested...whether or not he will use Counterparty or some new software that his team builds, I'm not 100% sure.

(personally speaking...the Bitcoin blockchain is just too slow!  ...hell, people get mad when a video takes 10 extra seconds to load)
_____________________________________________________________________

How this relates to ClearingHouse...I personally think this is extremely positive for XCH as Clearinghouse is basically a much faster and improved Counterparty.  This is extreme VALIDATION and real world corporate PROOF that Clearinghouse is attempting to solve an extremely RELEVANT problem!

What I've learned from Patrick Byrne is that many of the clearinghouses in the US are using Fractional Reserve Securities (selling and lending equities that they DO NOT OWN) - this is their biggest technique of fraud, which is what Byrne is trying to fix!

It's very exciting to realize that we're in the ballgame, and these technologies can disrupt the big boys

[AnthonyWittgenstein]

@drak  I just created my first notarized document in ClearWallet - very easy, user friendly, and fast

I was just testing it out...I used a jpeg I had on my desktop and notarized it.  It gave me a hash and I named it "Trading Truth jpeg".

I noticed Chris Ellis doing a lot of this recently to prove ownership of his videos (I think that's what he's doing).

Can you please explain to me exactly how this works...for example: 
Can I send that hash to another Viacoin address now? 
Where can I view the notarized documents I created? 
How does that hash relate to the actual jpeg file stored on my desktop? 
Is the actual jpeg picture on the blockchain now?

Thanks...this is pretty cool

[btcdrak]

The Patrick Byrne has given legitimacy to the whole concept. Competition is a good thing and this raises the profile of crypto and blockchain applications for everyone. His plans may or may not succeed, specially because of the regulators, but in either way it's a good thing.

There is a lot of work to be done in this space, and things bitcoin just cannot do itself. The proof-of-publication stuff is not enough. Think about HFT trading for example. That is why things like treechains are super important as there is no way for bitcoin to scale.