do bitcoin ATMs really suck this much?

[CoolBliss]

Please don't judge all bitcoin ATM's by a Robocoin machine.

[bitkilo]

We have 1 Robocoin ATM here in Melbourne, Aus, but this has been down since 20/03/2014 due to no interest they tell me. i wanted to use it as it seems to be the only 2 way ATM here.
I have used the Lamassu type before and will def use it again.

[TaunSew]

I don't think BTC atms are of much use now, however its bringing  public attention only, bringing BTC to mainstream

I looked up Bitcoin dealers online while reading this thread.  I only found one person with any reputation (and four others without rep) that was selling for physical cash.

It's a choice between the ATMs (which mark up) or an unknown cash dealer who marks up and then could just be a crook looking to mug somebody.

The IRS has proven that it was can levy retroactive taxes.  They event sent a 100%+ bill to certain people due to declaring mining as self income, penalties for not paying the prior year and then capital gains on the difference.

 The scary prospect about Bitcoin is your country may decide: "no wait you weren't suppose to pay capital gains.. you are supposed to pay the "digital currency tax" we just made up which is 80% on gains.  Please pay up or else.."

[wasserman99]

There's one at Hacker Dojo in Silicon Valley. It's similar to the one in the video, with the hand scanner and license scanner.  There's about a 15% spread between the buy and sell price, plus a $5 fee. Nobody uses it.

15% fee kind of defeat the entire purpose of bitcoin replacing credit card and paypal, doesn't it?

Not if your target is dumb and/or lazy and/or busy people looking to "invest" in something making whatever they think's expected that year.... 20000% or whatever. Looking on the speculation forum, you'd think this is most people with coin, but I don't think that's really the case, thank God. However, there may be some areas more prone to that kind of audience.... but I can't think of them.... somewhere dumb and urban... okay, I can think of a few, but I'll keep my mouth shut.

Well those type of places are where some of those ATM's will be located XD
If you ever revealed them that is but true enough if people expect 2000% returns on their investment
An ATM that charges that fee is a deal lol.

People expect those kinds of returns because they are stupid and uneducated. They are also willing to "get in" on the investment at any cost to avoid missing out on their gains. As a result they do not take into consideration the fact that they can purchase the same investment with a little bit more leg work.

[7Priest7]

The guy really should've bought a smaller amount.
I agree with the white guy though, for day to day transactions cash is king.

At this point BTC has a few things it is good for,
a risky store of value,
a market for investors to play(day traders),
purchase of illegal items in a semi-anonymous way.

Can you imagine how long checkout lanes would be if more people paid using QR Codes, you'd be like the old lady with a check.

[elasticband]

You wouod be surprised how many people stand in the que playing with their phone instead of counting thier change,  sorting notes or retrieving their card from their wallet/ hanbag &purse.

a simple push of a few huttons can bring up a qr reader

[jbreher]

The IRS has proven that it was can levy retroactive taxes.

I can't help but think that you are misrepresenting the situation here. Can you provide a link to more info?

To my limited knowledge, the IRS cannot levy a retroactive tax. I cannot help but think that you are confusing this with the IRS clarifying that income from bitcoin is taxable. And that such clarification came after a tax year where such income should have been reported, but was not. Here is a clue - according to the IRS, _all_ income is taxable. Just because income comes from bitcoin, does not make it exempt from taxation.

They event sent a 100%+ bill to certain people due to declaring mining as self income, penalties for not paying the prior year and then capital gains on the difference.

Again, a link to more info on this incident would be helpful. By law, they cannot tax income at a rate any greater than that legislated. I don't know all the details, but I am pretty sure the law does not provide for taxation at a rate greater than 'all of it'.

The scary prospect about Bitcoin is your country may decide: "no wait you weren't suppose to pay capital gains.. you are supposed to pay the "digital currency tax" we just made up which is 80% on gains.  Please pay up or else.."

In the USA, The Constitution bars the legislation of any ex post facto law. Yes, sometimes they get away with it, but I believe such laws, if fought, are typically overturned.

[EndlessStory]

Scannig hand 4 times and providing id info, this is just ridiculous. There should be an option to scan face automatically via the atm machine.

I think this will repel people.

[Emperion]

One could borrow multiple IDs to do multiple transactions? I guess

The hand scanner does nothing to prevent the situation where mtultiple people collude to bypass the limit. They could also ask whoever they are getting the ID's from to scan their hand as well.

Yeah, pretty sketchy

[ProfMac]

Scannig hand 4 times and providing id info, this is just ridiculous. There should be an option to scan face automatically via the atm machine.

I think this will repel people.

This is a one (1) time only thing, to set up the AML/KYC documents.  It is not part of any transaction.

[Wooden Plate]

Looks like they are keeping the security pretty tight to avoid any theft and scams.

Nice initiative though.

[7Priest7]

to avoid any theft and scams.

While charging ludicrous fees.

Avoiding scams by being a scam, Brilliant!

[btckold24]

wow these guys are annoying and wow they need to fix that with using a atm

[itsAj]

I don't think BTC atms are of much use now, however its bringing  public attention only, bringing BTC to mainstream

I looked up Bitcoin dealers online while reading this thread.  I only found one person with any reputation (and four others without rep) that was selling for physical cash.

It's a choice between the ATMs (which mark up) or an unknown cash dealer who marks up and then could just be a crook looking to mug somebody.

The IRS has proven that it was can levy retroactive taxes.  They event sent a 100%+ bill to certain people due to declaring mining as self income, penalties for not paying the prior year and then capital gains on the difference.

 The scary prospect about Bitcoin is your country may decide: "no wait you weren't suppose to pay capital gains.. you are supposed to pay the "digital currency tax" we just made up which is 80% on gains.  Please pay up or else.."

In my experience the traders/liquidity providers on LBC will generally charge a high markup, generally more so then what you will see at an ATM. You need to remember that these traders need to be paid for their time, while the "time' of an ATM is free, and any profits an ATM makes would go towards the owner potentially ROIing.

[bassguitarman]

One could borrow multiple IDs to do multiple transactions? I guess

The hand scanner does nothing to prevent the situation where mtultiple people collude to bypass the limit. They could also ask whoever they are getting the ID's from to scan their hand as well.

Its an analogy of bitcoin.  Rules won't stop people from using it

[s1lverbox]

And anonymous way of doing bitcoin gone...POOF

[Kluge]

And anonymous way of doing bitcoin gone...POOF

The devices are quite small and cheap and becoming moreso each day. Robocoin machines are enormous due to , but Skyhooks are quite small (and have open-source code). They could be built at home without express authorization of any exchanges (if you should want to use one), while all a shopkeep generally wants to know is how much you're willing to pay and average stats on foot traffic it generates. "I don't want a contract -- I'll just pre-pay $500/mo cash for you to leave it on your desk, here, I'll give you a sign to hang if you'd like, and if I fail to pre-pay next month, throw the damned thing out on the street." Great - boom - done. He has no reason to care whether or not your shit's together, legally. Unless there are major regulatory changes, I'm fairly sure ATMs are going to end up being mostly black market, while many operate in gray market status now.

[itsAj]

And anonymous way of doing bitcoin gone...POOF

The devices are quite small and cheap and becoming moreso each day. Robocoin machines are enormous due to , but Skyhooks are quite small (and have open-source code). They could be built at home without express authorization of any exchanges (if you should want to use one), while all a shopkeep generally wants to know is how much you're willing to pay and average stats on foot traffic it generates. "I don't want a contract -- I'll just pre-pay $500/mo cash for you to leave it on your desk, here, I'll give you a sign to hang if you'd like, and if I fail to pre-pay next month, throw the damned thing out on the street." Great - boom - done. He has no reason to care whether or not your shit's together, legally. Unless there are major regulatory changes, I'm fairly sure ATMs are going to end up being mostly black market, while many operate in gray market status now.

I think that Robocoin has done a very good job at marketing their ATMs as being somewhat legit and being AML complaint. People with a lot of money to lose do not want to risk breaking AML rules as the consequences for doing so can be great (they often also do not have a huge interest in bitcoin itself but are rather looking for a way to invest their money).

[Kluge]

And anonymous way of doing bitcoin gone...POOF

The devices are quite small and cheap and becoming moreso each day. Robocoin machines are enormous due to , but Skyhooks are quite small (and have open-source code). They could be built at home without express authorization of any exchanges (if you should want to use one), while all a shopkeep generally wants to know is how much you're willing to pay and average stats on foot traffic it generates. "I don't want a contract -- I'll just pre-pay $500/mo cash for you to leave it on your desk, here, I'll give you a sign to hang if you'd like, and if I fail to pre-pay next month, throw the damned thing out on the street." Great - boom - done. He has no reason to care whether or not your shit's together, legally. Unless there are major regulatory changes, I'm fairly sure ATMs are going to end up being mostly black market, while many operate in gray market status now.

I think that Robocoin has done a very good job at marketing their ATMs as being somewhat legit and being AML complaint. People with a lot of money to lose do not want to risk breaking AML rules as the consequences for doing so can be great (they often also do not have a huge interest in bitcoin itself but are rather looking for a way to invest their money).

Yeah -- sorry, I didn't mean to come off as anti-Robocoin. Having a Robocoin machine (at least in the US) seems like a pretty good indication the operators are operating lawfully and likely legit otherwise. Clearly not a fly-by-night.

[wasserman99]

Scannig hand 4 times and providing id info, this is just ridiculous. There should be an option to scan face automatically via the atm machine.

I think this will repel people.

It doesn't turn people off from wanting to use bitcoin ATMs. People do not seem to think that these requirements are that intrusive. For the most part, most bitcoin ATMs have been very successful.