dice.ninja - Now with Plinko!

[BBmmBB]

AKcoinminer/JoeMattie/sixthtry/DMF/MCsnugs/??? was always the first one to bring these sites to people attention while usually pretending to stumble across them nonchalantly:

Yeah I'm guilty of promoting / shilling for these sites to some extent.  Like many others here, I was suckered in by their cool websites, helpful demeanor, and seeming reliability.

But, by your logic anyone who promoted or retweeted anything from these sites is guilty of running them. (look out omahapoker, they're coming for you next)

There is absolutely nothing demonstrating that the guy calling himself "dmf" on Just-Dice was actually the guy who ran dice.ninja etc.  It's more likely to have been one of my friends screwing around.  Don't forget, we were all (yourself included) pumping jackpot coin really hard back then.

Yes, I deleted the bitcoin group I had been following on linkedin because I was getting daily spam from them that didn't interest me, so?

fuck you send me my bitcoins, i happen to have some friends in Alaska !!!    i'll never drop this until the coins are returned .  period

[BBmmBB]

AKcoinminer/JoeMattie/sixthtry/DMF/MCsnugs/??? was always the first one to bring these sites to people attention while usually pretending to stumble across them nonchalantly:

Yeah I'm guilty of promoting / shilling for these sites to some extent.  Like many others here, I was suckered in by their cool websites, helpful demeanor, and seeming reliability.

But, by your logic anyone who promoted or retweeted anything from these sites is guilty of running them. (look out omahapoker, they're coming for you next)

There is absolutely nothing demonstrating that the guy calling himself "dmf" on Just-Dice was actually the guy who ran dice.ninja etc.  It's more likely to have been one of my friends screwing around.  Don't forget, we were all (yourself included) pumping jackpot coin really hard back then.

Yes, I deleted the bitcoin group I had been following on linkedin because I was getting daily spam from them that didn't interest me, so?

Yes, he specifically stated he made his own dice site and I was on JD and JPCdice when that specific event was going down and saw and read it in person.  I wasn't doing any more than commenting about JPC like I normally do since I think it's a great coin.  You had accounts ready to go very quickly for each site introduced, which is suspicious, but not nearly as suspicious as the other "coincidences".

And no offense to Omaha/CBI if he's actually disconnected from this, but for all we know, he could be your original account planted a few months before to build up the reputation for CBI so JPC, DD, DN have a "trusted" list to become the top gambling sites on.


It's not that you retweeted things, it's that you, mcsnugs, and the dice site owners were the only ones to do it within a couple hours after launch besides a bitcoin news thing and a pumping account which could have been you as well.  Too many user names and too many coincidences for me, sorry.

My twitter was one of the first accounts they followed.  So what?

If I was the mastermind behind these sites do you really think that I would:

- Play on them actively
- Promote them actively
- Freely withdraw large sums of bitcoins to other gambling sites to play
- Shut the site down like 3 days after having all of my personal information posted to bitcointalk

How stupid do you think I am?

you must be a fucking moron,  you got caught now deal with it...send me my coins ~!!! my team is good at finding people ..at least if you live in North America !! 

[BBmmBB]

all i can say is if AK was scamming. he wouldnt be here posting right now. people know his name what city he lives in. he would be halfway to china by now



a lot of people here dont know AK like some of us do. JPC is what bought alot of us together.


I was a big investor of JPCDICE in the beginning(10 million JPC) and i was at dmfs sitse everyday talking to him



I even did a test last week and asked AK trick question about something back in the JPC days. if he was dmf he would have sliped with this question.. but he didn't...

honestly i used to chat with him on doge-dice sometimes and he seemed like a cool guy ... now it turns out he was just there to create fake volume it makes perfect sense ...grrrrrr :\  "invest"<---hmmmm

[BBmmBB]

all i can say is if AK was scamming. he wouldnt be here posting right now. people know his name what city he lives in. he would be halfway to china by now

a lot of people here dont know AK like some of us do. JPC is what bought alot of us together.

I was a big investor of JPCDICE in the beginning(10 million JPC) and i was at dmfs sitse everyday talking to him

I even did a test last week and asked AK trick question about something back in the JPC days. if he was dmf he would have sliped with this question.. but he didn't...

Actually, its the opposite. Since his identity is out in the open, and if he is accused of something, then running away isn't a solution. He or dmf, are well aware, that bitcoin gambling is a grey area, and no one has any solid evidence against anyone so he has nothing to be scared about. Just staying away will actually make it more likely that he scammed, but posting here doesn't mean he is not dmf.

You being on JPCDice doesn't mean that AK could not be involved with the site. Even if it is AK and another guy, then most of the time you could be talking to the other guy. And AK and that other guy could be using those funds.

Guess what, I did a trick question about something with AK too, and he actually answered making him more likely to be related to dice.ninja.

if im wrong about AK then i'm sorry and i will bring the rope for the public hanging...



but i havnt seen anything yet that made me go...it's him ...hes dmf

he rly doesn't "get it" >>
http://www.cathar.info/12cathars/killemall.jpg

[BBmmBB]

Even though there is sufficient proof. [...] There is no solid evidence against AK [...]

Aren't you contradicting yourself there?

If there's no solid evidence, how is there sufficient proof?

another one of your sites being looked at by the SEC ... go figure!!!   

[BBmmBB]

wait that site scammed? was just a matter of time, it did not look too inviting for me from the beginning on.
How many coins have been stolen? The owner just disappeared?

Chris "dooglus" Moore strikes again!!! 

[BBmmBB]

I think the SEC would see a difference. By investing you are only bankrolling. If investment was offered as shares then maybe. There are no real regulations for this sort of stuff at the moment.

Agreed.

In retrospect, "invest" was a bad word for to pick for what people do at crowd-bankrolled dice sites. It suggests to the uninformed that you're buying a share in the site when of course you aren't. I don't know what a better pair of verbs than invest/divest would be though. "bankroll/unbankroll" is clumsy, and has the disadvantage that "bankroll" is a noun as well as a verb, and so is confusing. I guess crowd-funded bankrolls are new enough that we don't yet have a good vocabulary for describing them and so "borrow" words from a related but different activity.

The SEC seems mainly concerned with unregistered share offerings, such as in the SatoshiDice case (Edit: this quote is from the SEC):

An SEC investigation found that Erik T. Voorhees published prospectuses on the Internet and actively solicited investors to buy shares in SatoshiDICE and FeedZeBirds.  But he failed to register the offerings with the SEC as required under the federal securities laws.

What sites like dice.ninja were offering wasn't anything like a share offering (it's more like a long-standing bet against the regular dice players) and so I doubt the SEC would be interested.

My first response was too quick, and I didn't see this response until I continued reading, so I'll go into more detail.

It seems what is throwing people off is the term "share offering." Shares are just one type of security, and the SEC's purview is all securities. For example, corporations have "shares." Limited liability companies have "interests." It's just how the businesses are structured, but both shares and interests entitle stakeholders to a portion of profits. Both are securities, and both are under the jurisdiction of the SEC because it regulates all securities.

Also, there are ways to structure businesses so that what you own is not a portion of the business itself (that is your shares/interests don't entitle you to vote on business decisions) but only entitle you to a share of the profits or losses of the business. This is certainly how the dice sites are structured. You don't own any part of the site, just the profit/loss. But that ownership you bought into is still a security.

The way JD, DD, DN, DB, ED and every other site that takes investments and allocates a share of profits based on that investment is structured is as a security. You can call the "unit" whatever you want: shares, interests, percentage... that doesn't matter. The SEC calls it a security.

If you're interested, here is the exact definition of "security" from the 1933 Securities Act, Section 2(a)(1):

The term “security” means any note, stock, treasury stock, security future, security-based swap, bond, debenture, evidence of indebtedness, certificate of interest or participation in any profit-sharing agreement, collateral-trust certificate, preorganization certificate or subscription, transferable share, investment contract, voting-trust certificate, certificate of deposit for a security, fractional undivided interest in oil, gas, or other mineral rights, any put, call, straddle, option, or privilege on any security, certificate of deposit, or group or index of securities (including any interest therein or based on the value thereof), or any put, call, straddle, option, or privilege entered into on a national securities exchange relating to foreign currency, or, in general, any interest or instrument commonly known as a “security”, or any certificate of interest or participation in, temporary or interim certificate for, receipt for, guarantee of, or warrant or right to subscribe to or purchase, any of the foregoing.

"Participation in any profit-sharing agreement." You can call it whatever you want, but it's definitely this. That means it's definitely an unregistered security.

+1

[BBmmBB]

Even though there is sufficient proof. [...] There is no solid evidence against AK [...]

Aren't you contradicting yourself there?

If there's no solid evidence, how is there sufficient proof?

Sorry, I meant sufficient evidence to convince, but not enough to take legal action against someone.

legal action if the wronged "investors" don't find him first ... no regulations right?= pitchforks & torches lol 

[BBmmBB]

wait that site scammed? was just a matter of time, it did not look too inviting for me from the beginning on.
How many coins have been stolen? The owner just disappeared?

The ninjas took about 2000 coins and disappeared. Like ninjas. I'm going to be samurai. We hunt down ninjas.

The way JD, DD, DN, DB, ED and every other site that takes investments and allocates a share of profits based on that investment is structured is as a security. You can call the "unit" whatever you want: shares, interests, percentage... that doesn't matter. The SEC calls it a security.

"Participation in any profit-sharing agreement." You can call it whatever you want, but it's definitely this. That means it's definitely an unregistered security.

How about if we call it, like Baccarat Punto Banco, and it's actually a bet? You bet against other players. That's essentially what you're doing when you contribute to the bankroll of these dice sites.

i'm betting on Berkshire Hathaway ... now it's like $200,000 per share(bet)  ahhaa   

[BBmmBB]

there are ways to structure businesses so that what you own is not a portion of the business itself [...] but only entitle you to a share of the profits or losses of the business. This is certainly how the dice sites are structured. You don't own any part of the site, just the profit/loss.

Your return as a dice site "investor" isn't based on the site's profit. It completely ignores all the site's expenses. The "investor" is just a counterparty to the "players". You can see them as another type of gambler.

Any profit the site makes can only be calculated after taking off expenses (hosting costs, advertising, staff, etc.) and isn't at all what the "investors" get a share of.

investors will find you, prosecute you then after you pay all the fines and jail time you still have people want to kill you ?   nice work Chris! 

[Dotcommie]

If you wanted to help, you would shut the hell up BBmmBB.  At this rate everyone on this forum will have you blocked anyways.

[ctlaltdefeat]

Clearly it's always been known that the management and moderation on this site is absolute shit, but can someone please ban this person already?

[JoeMattie]

blah blah blah blah

Dude, shut the fuck up.  Nobody cares what you have to say.

[BBmmBB]

blah blah blah blah

Dude, shut the fuck up.  Nobody cares what you have to say.

listen noob! ~ you need to send me my bitcoins or i'll come hunt you down and feed you to the SEC !!!



you think i'm playing?

[JoeMattie]

blah blah blah blah

Dude, shut the fuck up.  Nobody cares what you have to say.

listen noob! ~ you need to send me my bitcoins or i'll come hunt you down and feed you to the SEC !!!



you think i'm playing?

no, I think you're an idiot

[dooglus]

no, I think you're an idiot

You're right about that.

Nobody wants to have to scroll through pages of this shit:

[BBmmBB]

i just called cloudflare ... we need to put an end to all of this nonsense !!!  

[Anony]

i just called cloudflare ... we need to put an end to all of this nonsense !!!  

Do you honestly think cloudflare gives a fuck about anything you say to them? They'll act like they care and when you hang up the phone they'll go back to not giving a fuck like they were before you wasted their time.

All these sites are paying them, they are a business, that's all they care about.

[LastRoby]

great job

[BBmmBB]

i just called cloudflare ... we need to put an end to all of this nonsense !!!  

Do you honestly think cloudflare gives a fuck about anything you say to them? They'll act like they care and when you hang up the phone they'll go back to not giving a fuck like they were before you wasted their time.

All these sites are paying them, they are a business, that's all they care about.

well we will see about that ...