When will the USA pay their debts, if ever?

[NotLambchop]

Talking about debt must first talk to the United States of America. The "doctrine" of horizontal and vertical maneuver debt for centuries, breach of national institutions, coverage throughout the nooks and crannies of life, from school to plate bed, turned the United States into a sea of ​​debt, a debt ocean wave after wave crushed last forever never repaid.

U jelly?

[ffe]

In a related note, is there any major country that is completely debt-free?

Everyone seems to be owing something to someone else.

Yet those countries all seem to be growing. Year in and Year out. Owing is just the promise to labor for someone else in the future. Also we mostly owe ourselves regardless of the China myth. So we're promising to labor for ourselves in the future.

The downturn in 2007 was because the fed allowed NGDP to fall 10% instead of growing at 5% as it was for the previous 20 years. If the downturn hadn't happened government debt would be much smaller today.

What do you think would happen today if the fed froze the money supply? We'd have a crash in NGDP much larger than the one in 2007. Why would you want that kind of pain for people? Some sort of moral code that says "don't print more money" because it's evil?

If you want to save and hate 2% inflation than save in real assets, stocks, land, etc. Don't hoard cash and declare that any inflation is evil. And remember, 2% inflation means income is growing by at least 2% as well (actually higher if productivity is growing.)

[MelodyRowell]

In a related note, is there any major country that is completely debt-free?

Everyone seems to be owing something to someone else.

On a net basis (meaning that have more cash like assets then they owe other countries) then yes. China is an example of this.

You need to remember that even companies like microsoft and apple have some debt on their balance sheet even though they have tens of billions of dollars at their disposal

[NotLambchop]

U R King.  You feel the need to wage war, and the potential victims are:
Country A, which owes you money and is slowly paying it back,
and B, a country you are in serious debt to.

All other things being equal, chose one

[worle1bm]

In a related note, is there any major country that is completely debt-free?

Everyone seems to be owing something to someone else.

On a net basis (meaning that have more cash like assets then they owe other countries) then yes. China is an example of this.

You need to remember that even companies like microsoft and apple have some debt on their balance sheet even though they have tens of billions of dollars at their disposal

Wait. Wait. Hang on. You think. Wait. You think China has no debt?

[Turnkey]

It will never happen, no way. Not a 0.001 chance of that. The national debt is a fraud !

[MichaelBliss]

I still think they could begin to pay off their debts by selling all their military equipment (that's where the borrowed money went, isn't it?).    Lots of warships, stealth bombers, missles, etc that could go a long way to squaring America up.  I'm sure there must be *some* Americans who feel like shit knowing they are not good for their word any more.

The world should treat America like a dead-beat nation, and start taking back equipment, land, and infrastructure.   American's respect bounty hunters and collections agents, it'll be cool.   

There's lots of land, the locals could be moved to reserves to free up the good land for the actual owners (the Chinese).

We can dream.

[spazzdla]

It is not possible with fractional banking.  The entire idea is to not pay it off.

[NotLambchop]

It is not possible with fractional banking.  The entire idea is to not pay it off.

You're half right.

[junglecat]

When will the USA pay their debts, if ever?

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

You can't pay debt with debt because you are left with debt. 

[ruthless09]

I still think they could begin to pay off their debts by selling all their military equipment (that's where the borrowed money went, isn't it?).    Lots of warships, stealth bombers, missles, etc that could go a long way to squaring America up.  I'm sure there must be *some* Americans who feel like shit knowing they are not good for their word any more.

The world should treat America like a dead-beat nation, and start taking back equipment, land, and infrastructure.   American's respect bounty hunters and collections agents, it'll be cool.   

There's lots of land, the locals could be moved to reserves to free up the good land for the actual owners (the Chinese).

We can dream.

The military equipment would not be sufficient to pay off the debt of the US government, plus there is not sufficient demand for this equipment. Plus such sales would be a threat to both national and world security.

A much more viable way to payoff the national debt is entitlement reform

[MichaelBliss]

I still think they could begin to pay off their debts by selling all their military equipment (that's where the borrowed money went, isn't it?).    Lots of warships, stealth bombers, missles, etc that could go a long way to squaring America up.  I'm sure there must be *some* Americans who feel like shit knowing they are not good for their word any more.

The world should treat America like a dead-beat nation, and start taking back equipment, land, and infrastructure.   American's respect bounty hunters and collections agents, it'll be cool.   

There's lots of land, the locals could be moved to reserves to free up the good land for the actual owners (the Chinese).

We can dream.

The military equipment would not be sufficient to pay off the debt of the US government, plus there is not sufficient demand for this equipment. Plus such sales would be a threat to both national and world security.

A much more viable way to payoff the national debt is entitlement reform

Thanks for taking my post seriously, though you didn't comment on the part where I would put the Americans in reserves before selling the major cities to the highest bidders.   Of course it wouldn't be sufficient - but since they can't afford to pay for it, giving it to the debtors is a start.  The military equipment in the US's hands has already demonstrably reduced world security, so not sure I can agree on that point either.  I point out that there is actually precedent for confiscating the equipment: http://www.forbes.com/sites/afontevecchia/2012/10/05/the-real-story-behind-the-argentine-vessel-in-ghana-and-how-hedge-funds-tried-to-seize-the-presidential-plane/

"Entitlement Reform" as a means to pay off debt is even more delusional than what I am saying up there, since everyone knows that cutting social services etc will only mess your country up even more than it is already, and there would never be enough GDP in a thousand years to pay back all that you guys owe.

Anyway, these things aren't usually up to the debtor.  China should decide what they repossess.   What about the idea out of Seinfeld, Americans can play the roll of butler for their creditors, for the next 100 years or so?   

Given the actual options, it's no wonder the only thing the USA can do is to invade places and destabilize the world, to distract from the massive precipice they are moving towards..

[Robert Paulson]

its never getting paid off, not in the same purchasing power at least.
the best way out would be to default like Argentina but the American government is probably too proud to admit America is a deadbeat and can never repay its debts.
so whats going to happen is the federal reserve will print as much money as will be needed to service the debt and kill the dollar.

[rjclarke2000]

its never getting paid off, not in the same purchasing power at least.
the best way out would be to default like Argentina but the American government is probably too proud to admit America is a deadbeat and can never repay its debts.
so whats going to happen is the federal reserve will print as much money as will be needed to service the debt and kill the dollar.

I thought QE had finished.

Will they resume QE in the near future or are they printing behind closed doors in secret so to speak?

The way I see things is soon there WILL be a monetary disaster. This may come in the form of a black swan event or a bank failure leading to a domino effect. All this money that has been printed from QE1,2,and 3 will have to go somewhere and once panic hits a lot of money will be put in commodities like metals and potentially bitcoin if the "man on the street" knows about it and knows how to acquire btc.

It's not just the U.S that have been printing of course. We've been at it here too as well as many other countries!


Just my opinion as a UK spectator.

Russell

[RobertDJ]

its never getting paid off, not in the same purchasing power at least.
the best way out would be to default like Argentina but the American government is probably too proud to admit America is a deadbeat and can never repay its debts.
so whats going to happen is the federal reserve will print as much money as will be needed to service the debt and kill the dollar.

the US government defaulting on it's debt would probably have a worse effect on the value of the dollar then the federal reserve printing sufficient money to service the USG's debt over the long term.

Also, as mentioned above QE3 has ended so the fed is really no longer printing money anymore

[Robert Paulson]

its never getting paid off, not in the same purchasing power at least.
the best way out would be to default like Argentina but the American government is probably too proud to admit America is a deadbeat and can never repay its debts.
so whats going to happen is the federal reserve will print as much money as will be needed to service the debt and kill the dollar.

the US government defaulting on it's debt would probably have a worse effect on the value of the dollar then the federal reserve printing sufficient money to service the USG's debt over the long term.

Also, as mentioned above QE3 has ended so the fed is really no longer printing money anymore

interest rates are still at zero.
every time someone takes a loan from a commercial bank money gets printed.

[dontCAREhair]

interest rates are still at zero.
every time someone takes a loan from a commercial bank money gets printed.

The fact that the interest rates are at zero is a result of market forces, not something that the government is forcing.

[kjj]

interest rates are still at zero.
every time someone takes a loan from a commercial bank money gets printed.

The fact that the interest rates are at zero is a result of market forces, not something that the government is forcing.

Ha!

[choeymethod]

They only need 1 good idea to be back in the green again.

[Robert Paulson]

interest rates are still at zero.
every time someone takes a loan from a commercial bank money gets printed.

The fact that the interest rates are at zero is a result of market forces, not something that the government is forcing.

what market forces are you talking about.
a bunch of people at the FED dictate what the interest rate is going to be.