I visited BFL, any questions ?

[eldentyrell]

 Prior to that revelation I honestly thought they built their boards out of potatoes.  

No way dude.  If that were true, they would produce power instead of guzzling it.

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[bulanula]

Prior to that revelation I honestly thought they built their boards out of potatoes.

Nice one D&T !

Don't try to cloud the issues, but educate yourself instead.

D&T is one of the most educated people around here. Your point is moot !

On another note, WHY are you all trying to find BFL's secret ?

Are you all in China ( no offence meant; just the location where all the computer equipment is made ) and trying to counterfeit BFL's design

Leave the unicorn alone ! It is meant to be "seekrit! neener neener!"

[Inaba]

D&T is one of the most educated people around here. Your point is moot !

I would disagree... his point isn't moot at all, it's at best academic but largely irrelevant to the topic.  Unless you wish to keep discussing it, it's hardly moot.

[Syke]

I'll explain it once again:
A buddy of mine is an ASIC designer here in Silicon Valley.
When asked to implement an FPGA on a standard ASIC design flow, he could obviously do that, have some other people in his company implement and verify the physical back-end and then ship the design files off to TSMC or some other foundry.

A few months later, you receive your first sample ASIC, which implements an FPGA.

You are confusing ASIC with IC. An ASIC has fixed-logic, an FPGA has programmable-logic. While they are both ICs, they are two very different kinds of ICs.

[mem]

I hope bfl works out but to me it reeks of a long con.
Will keep buying up 2nd hand gpus until then

[rjk]

I hope bfl works out but to me it reeks of a long con.
Will keep buying up 2nd hand gpus until then

Yeah everything in the world is a long con, just because I said so.

[SgtSpike]

I hope bfl works out but to me it reeks of a long con.
Will keep buying up 2nd hand gpus until then

Yeah everything in the world is a long con, just because I said so.

Hey, don't knock him.  If he's still buying GPU's, that means more BFL singles for the rest of us.  :p

[mem]

I hope bfl works out but to me it reeks of a long con.
Will keep buying up 2nd hand gpus until then

Yeah everything in the world is a long con, just because I said so.

herp derp - someone disagreed because they thaid tho 
I guess you might not be familiar with long cons (or are simply blind fanboys for BFL).

Lets cover the basics:

Dubious company registration.
Next to no contact.
Outright lies regarding delivery times (and has continued to lie regarding delivery times for 6+ months).
Extremely few seen out in the wild (enough that you could simply pay someone for a false review to help out the long con).
0 information on chips used (this is the only thing that does not bother me).
Constant spamming of BFL.
The person assuring us its not a con has answered 0 questions of substance, instead selling you on the "I trust them, you should to".

As previously said - this is what a long con looks like.

1st option

Some user finally hits a to long to wait time, logs a complaint and BFL fob you off with emails.
BFL then simply start ignoring you or worse, stating that you are a scammer trying to get a free BFL.
The members claiming they have working BFL's start disappearing, those that dont visicously defend it insisting it is real with quotes like "HAHAHA more for me" and "I trusted them with 1 billion dollars, they are the real deal !" and "I lost all this weight in 2 weeks !!!".
Website keeps operating despite bad reviews hoping to scrape a few more suckers.

Lets hope this is not the case, but there is absolutely nothing to vouch for BFL currently. For their product or for their companies reliability.
This thread only served to highlight concerns and ease none.

2nd option

Another likely scenario IMHO is this company is not a con but is running afoul of several US laws, at a guess encryption limitations and most likely tax fraud.

3rd option

They are using chips they do not have a license for and would be sued should the parent company find out.
Or counterfeit chips that are not allowed inside the US (due to original creators copyright).

Happy Option:

BFL Hashes pure rainbows and runs on a perpetual motion engine.
6 month delays become shipping times of 3-14 days (website is updated to reflect the real delivery time).
Multiple people testing and confirming legitimacy.
Everyone is happy.

Mid ground option

They are severely under-budget and are accumulating funds to do a bulk fab.
Pending customers have no real expected time of manufacture and delivery.
Significant chance of waiting

[Brunic]

I hope bfl works out but to me it reeks of a long con.
Will keep buying up 2nd hand gpus until then

I taught about the long con theory before and now...I just think that what happened was an horrible product launch. One of the worst next to the Xbox 360 

Their product seems good, and I really think they're doing their best to make a nice business out of it. I'm still not interested until they fix all their launch mess, there's no way I'm waiting 12 weeks for something, but I'll probably check later on.

[mem]

I hope bfl works out but to me it reeks of a long con.
Will keep buying up 2nd hand gpus until then

I taught about the long con theory before and now...I just think that what happened was an horrible product launch. One of the worst next to the Xbox 360 

Their product seems good, and I really think they're doing their best to make a nice business out of it. I'm still not interested until they fix all their launch mess, there's no way I'm waiting 12 weeks for something, but I'll probably check later on.

Me to buddy, I want to......

[dropt]

herp derp - someone disagreed because they thaid tho  
I guess you might not be familiar with long cons (or are simply blind fanboys for BFL).

Lets cover the basics:

[...]
Blah Blah Blah, Yap Yap Yap...
[...]

Option C:  You have no idea what you're talking about.

[Inaba]

Seeing as I've been to their facility several times and talked extensively with a few BFL people, I would say all your explanations are pure bullshit and you clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

[ice_chill]

Jealousy causes him to come up as to why the BFL is bad. Probably can't afford one or too scared to order one, and thus envies people who can afford and order.

[SgtSpike]

mem, I might agree with you if there was a good reason for them to be operating a long con.  But there's just not.

They have the most demand of ANY miner manufacturer right now, and that's not going to change for a long time.  They have a really cheap product for how much MH/s it runs.  Because demand is so high, they would likely make less money by conning everyone instead of just continuing to provide the product.  Not to mention, a multi-million dollar con would mean they'd definitely be on the run from the law and some serious investigators.  I doubt that's the position they want to be in...

Anyway, you're obviously welcome to think whatever you like, and if we all get scammed, you can point your finger and say "told ya so!"

[Cablez]

Hey Inaba,  since you have been there I was wondering if it struck you that this was a side job to most of them (so not putting in at least 40 a week)?

Maybe that would explain some of the tardiness.

[coretechs]

They have the most demand of ANY miner manufacturer right now, and that's not going to change for a long time.  They have a really cheap product for how much MH/s it runs.  Because demand is so high, they would likely make less money by conning everyone instead of just continuing to provide the product.  Not to mention, a multi-million dollar con would mean they'd definitely be on the run from the law and some serious investigators.  I doubt that's the position they want to be in...

I think this is a valid assumption.  The fact is that their product works.  I'm guessing they had no expectation that demand would be this great.  We don't know their profit margin, but I believe it would be MUCH more lucrative for them to grow their business as bitcoin gains traction.  I'd go so far as to say their revenue could be in the millions next year if they continue to deliver their products, even if they are late.  I appears to have worked out well for them so far, now they just need to hire a few more people to answer emails and provide tech support.

I must admit that I am still suspicious of this particular thread.  Anyone who bothered to look at the OPs post history can see that they registered a few weeks before posting, and I find it odd that someone would just book a flight for the hell of it because they just decided to buy 100k worth of bitcoin mining equipment after tinkering with some GPU miners for a short while.

[ice_chill]

They have the most demand of ANY miner manufacturer right now, and that's not going to change for a long time.  They have a really cheap product for how much MH/s it runs.  Because demand is so high, they would likely make less money by conning everyone instead of just continuing to provide the product.  Not to mention, a multi-million dollar con would mean they'd definitely be on the run from the law and some serious investigators.  I doubt that's the position they want to be in...

I think this is a valid assumption.  The fact is that their product works.  I'm guessing they had no expectation that demand would be this great.  We don't know their profit margin, but I believe it would be MUCH more lucrative for them to grow their business as bitcoin gains traction.  I'd go so far as to say their revenue could be in the millions next year if they continue to deliver their products, even if they are late.  I appears to have worked out well for them so far, now they just need to hire a few more people to answer emails and provide tech support.

I must admit that I am still suspicious of this particular thread.  Anyone who bothered to look at the OPs post history can see that they registered a few weeks before posting, and I find it odd that someone would just book a flight for the hell of it because they just decided to buy 100k worth of bitcoin mining equipment after tinkering with some GPU miners for a short while.

I found out about Bitcoin in early March, 2 days later I found this forum, another 3 days later I placed an order for Butterfly Single, and 2 weeks later ordered MiniRig. Nothing suspicions.

[darkice]

They have the most demand of ANY miner manufacturer right now, and that's not going to change for a long time.  They have a really cheap product for how much MH/s it runs.  Because demand is so high, they would likely make less money by conning everyone instead of just continuing to provide the product.  Not to mention, a multi-million dollar con would mean they'd definitely be on the run from the law and some serious investigators.  I doubt that's the position they want to be in...

I think this is a valid assumption.  The fact is that their product works.  I'm guessing they had no expectation that demand would be this great.  We don't know their profit margin, but I believe it would be MUCH more lucrative for them to grow their business as bitcoin gains traction.  I'd go so far as to say their revenue could be in the millions next year if they continue to deliver their products, even if they are late.  I appears to have worked out well for them so far, now they just need to hire a few more people to answer emails and provide tech support.

I must admit that I am still suspicious of this particular thread.  Anyone who bothered to look at the OPs post history can see that they registered a few weeks before posting, and I find it odd that someone would just book a flight for the hell of it because they just decided to buy 100k worth of bitcoin mining equipment after tinkering with some GPU miners for a short while.

I found out about Bitcoin in early March, 2 days later I found this forum, another 3 days later I placed an order for Butterfly Single, and 2 weeks later ordered MiniRig. Nothing suspicions.

I wasn't tinkering with gpu miners for a while, I was following bitcoin from the start. I'm not some random guy who stumbled upon bitcoin, I invested more money on more crazy things before.

[coretechs]

I must admit that I am still suspicious of this particular thread.  Anyone who bothered to look at the OPs post history can see that they registered a few weeks before posting, and I find it odd that someone would just book a flight for the hell of it because they just decided to buy 100k worth of bitcoin mining equipment after tinkering with some GPU miners for a short while.

I found out about Bitcoin in early March, 2 days later I found this forum, another 3 days later I placed an order for Butterfly Single, and 2 weeks later ordered MiniRig. Nothing suspicions.

You also posted that you lost $10k trading and used to to justify the risk of dropping $15k because you have "guts".  

My assumptions are based on my own standard for what is questionable due diligence, but that varies and this is just my opinion.  Deep pockets enable you to take bigger risks.

I wasn't tinkering with gpu miners for a while, I was following bitcoin from the start. I'm not some random guy who stumbled upon bitcoin, I invested more money on more crazy things before.

Fair enough, I'm not making any accusations, just voicing my suspicions.  As a fellow miner I do hope it all works out for you.

[darkice]

I must admit that I am still suspicious of this particular thread.  Anyone who bothered to look at the OPs post history can see that they registered a few weeks before posting, and I find it odd that someone would just book a flight for the hell of it because they just decided to buy 100k worth of bitcoin mining equipment after tinkering with some GPU miners for a short while.

I found out about Bitcoin in early March, 2 days later I found this forum, another 3 days later I placed an order for Butterfly Single, and 2 weeks later ordered MiniRig. Nothing suspicions.

You also posted that you lost $10k trading and used to to justify the risk of dropping $15k because you have "guts".  

My assumptions are based on my own standard for what is questionable due diligence, but that varies and this is just my opinion.  Deep pockets enable you to take bigger risks.

I wasn't tinkering with gpu miners for a while, I was following bitcoin from the start. I'm not some random guy who stumbled upon bitcoin, I invested more money on more crazy things before.

Fair enough, I'm not making any accusations, just voicing my suspicions.  As a fellow miner I do hope it all works out for you.

Thank you