HASHNEST Discussion and Support Thread

[bapparabi]

What happens when I have hashpower and that kind gets disabled?

For example, what happens to my S7 when it gets disabled and replaced by the S9? What if I don't have enough GHS to redeem a full unit?

you have the option the sell it s7 in market and use that fund to buy new s9 ..

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[BBHex]

What happens when I have hashpower and that kind gets disabled?

For example, what happens to my S7 when it gets disabled and replaced by the S9? What if I don't have enough GHS to redeem a full unit?

you have the option the sell it s7 in market and use that fund to buy new s9 ..

Is it still able to be sold even it is removed or its just speculation? Because i don't think it can be sold or lets say no one will buy s7 if s9 is out

[lechatelier]

What happens when I have hashpower and that kind gets disabled?

For example, what happens to my S7 when it gets disabled and replaced by the S9? What if I don't have enough GHS to redeem a full unit?

you have the option the sell it s7 in market and use that fund to buy new s9 ..

Is it still able to be sold even it is removed or its just speculation? Because i don't think it can be sold or lets say no one will buy s7 if s9 is out

bapparabi is incorrect, he doesn't know what he's talking about.

You can find the information you are looking for in their ToS but basically it's like this: Once the S7 Hashes aren't profitable anymore, meaning that maintenance makes up 90% of profit (and we're at 75% already), they enter a 10 day redemption waiting period.

"If due to falling bitcoin exchange rate or increase in mining difficulty, the electricity fee is greater than 90% of mining revenues, mining contracts on Hashnest will enter a “redemption waiting period”."

During those 10 days, Hashnest evaluates wether to retire the machines or not based on how payout develops (Read more in the ToS). If the S7 becomes profitable again, the Hashes exit the redemption period and mining continues as usual.

HOWEVER: During those 10 days of waiting, you CANNOT trade your Hash any longer, as it becomes locked from the market. ("During this time HASHNEST will halt trading on the GH/s exchange, hasrate transfers and cancel any unfulfilled orders.") Meaning that you CANNOT sell your shares AFTER they have entered the redemption waiting period. After those 10 days, Hashnest may retire the machines altogether:

"During this waiting period, if electricity fees are greater than revenues for a sustained period of ten continuous days, Hashnest reserves the right to retire the machines. When machines are retired, a user’s contract will then enter into the “hardware redemption period”."

During this period, users have the chance to claim their machines provided they have enough GHS:

"During the hardware redemption period, users are given a period of 7 days during which requests for hardware redemption must be made."

and

"Customers holding enough GH/s to constitute an entire machine of the associated type (e.g., 4860 GH/s of Antminer S7) are eligible to convert that amount of GH/s into the used unit of the associated type. If a user does not have enough GH/s of the associated kind to exchange for actual hardware, then this user is not eligible for hardware redemption."

This means that your shares are gone and useless if you have fewer than 4860 GHS. If you do have enough Hash for one (or more) machines, then you have the option to have them shipped to your address, HOWEVER there is a 50$ transaction fee involved PLUS shipping from China per machine, so getting those S7 back to you will require time and more money. ("Handling fees are set at US$50, and domestic Chinese shipping (including to the export) and international shipping fees will be collected according to the actual charge.")

So it's questionable whether getting those S7s to you is worth it at all, at least when you intend to use them for mining. It may be worth it to sell them on ebay or other second hand platforms though, as those machines are usually overpriced on those sites.



All in all, you want to be careful the next few weeks. As I've said, we're already at 75% maintenance/payout and Bitmain said the S9 will come to Hashnest soon. I reckon they are waiting for the S7s to become obsolete first and if the price doesn't stay level or go up, this might be very soon. A lot of cloudminers will end up with useless Hash and lose a lot of their investment due to S7s becoming obsolete soon.

In anticipation of that crash and as a result of the halving, a heavy devaluation of GHS shares has already occured. We had a dip to 8k sat / GHS a few days ago with a slow recovery back to 11k+ (Price pre halving: 13k-14k). Today we're seeing another dip to 9k sat / GHS with ongoing downwards momentum, maybe as a result of the retreating bitcoin price in the last 10-12 hours a lot of cloudminers may be fearful of that inevitable crash, especially when considering that the block finding luck today has been unfortunate as well.

Take care!

[pandalion98]

IIRC if you don't have enough power for 1 s7 unit when the market for it is removed, it is most likely you won't get anything. I don't remember where i read about that but i think you can find it in their site

you have the option the sell it s7 in market and use that fund to buy new s9 ..

This means that your shares are gone and useless if you have fewer than 4860 GHS.

Can anyone confirm? The replies are pretty conflicting.

[ps_jb]

IIRC if you don't have enough power for 1 s7 unit when the market for it is removed, it is most likely you won't get anything. I don't remember where i read about that but i think you can find it in their site

you have the option the sell it s7 in market and use that fund to buy new s9 ..

This means that your shares are gone and useless if you have fewer than 4860 GHS.

Can anyone confirm? The replies are pretty conflicting.

It is in ToS - why we should confirm it?

[DebitMe]

IIRC if you don't have enough power for 1 s7 unit when the market for it is removed, it is most likely you won't get anything. I don't remember where i read about that but i think you can find it in their site

you have the option the sell it s7 in market and use that fund to buy new s9 ..

This means that your shares are gone and useless if you have fewer than 4860 GHS.

Can anyone confirm? The replies are pretty conflicting.

It is in ToS - why we should confirm it?

When the units are no longer profitable and have entered the redemption period, if you own enough GH/s for a single unit you have the option to pay to have it shipped to you.  Any GH/s you own that are not dividable evenly by 4860 are gone and you cannot do anything with them.

[lechatelier]

This isn't a matter of belief or interpretation - it is written clear as day in their ToS and I've pasted all the relevant information in my previous post. I don't want to sound rude but if you need any further confirmation, how about you just go to their website and read their ToS yourself? There is no better source of information on this. After all, Hashnest makes the rules, not some idiots spouting nonsense on a bitcoin forum. Doesn't matter if 9/10 people here tell you you can use your S7 Hash after it's become unprofitable to fund S9s - it's still not going to happen You either have enough hash to redeem for physical machines or your hash is gone forever, buh-bye, investment gone.

In my opinion, if you haven't started mining yet, wait until the S9s are introduced to Hashnest. All it takes is a dip below 620$ / BTC and a day's worth of bad block finding luck and we'll hit 90%+ maintenance, and the S7s will become obsolete. It could happen tomorrow, it could happen in a few weeks. But it'll definitely happen soon, so beware. It's relatively safe to invest again when the S9s are introduced to Hashnest. Provided circumstances don't change dramatically for the worse, they should be profitable for quite some time.

[pandalion98]

When the units are no longer profitable and have entered the redemption period, if you own enough GH/s for a single unit you have the option to pay to have it shipped to you.  Any GH/s you own that are not dividable evenly by 4860 are gone and you cannot do anything with them.

Thanks.

It is in ToS - why we should confirm it?

"Customers holding enough GH/s to constitute an entire machine of the associated type (e.g., 4860 GH/s of Antminer S7) are eligible to convert that amount of GH/s into the used unit of the associated type. If a user does not have enough GH/s of the associated kind to exchange for actual hardware, then this user is not eligible for hardware redemption."

That's because it's not mentioned in their TOS what happens if a user doesn't have enough GH/s except for "not eligible for hardware redemption." What if I don't have enough? What happens to it? Do we get a refund based on the current market price? Do we convert it into something else?

What if my interpretation of the TOS is wrong?
That's the problem. We have to extrapolate based on the incomplete data.

As much as I appreciate you trying to "help out", it doesn't do anything aside from triggering some people. I wouldn't be asking if it's as clear as daylight.

[pumawolf]

if u dont have enough  ghs  to redeem u should sell b4   they turn the market off.   sometimes they run promotions tho,  for s5   they let  us trade it in for a whole s7 unit  , it took alot of hashes tho to do the trade in.  but  i would be suprise if they hooked us up  again for the s9's,  doubt they let these babys go for cheap.   u never know with these guys, they make it up as they along.

[lechatelier]

That's because it's not mentioned in their TOS what happens if a user doesn't have enough GH/s except for "not eligible for hardware redemption." What if I don't have enough? What happens to it? Do we get a refund based on the current market price? Do we convert it into something else?

I see what you mean now. The hash that hasn't been used to exchange for physical machines will probably just be gone, as the machines are retired and Hashnest has no legal obligation to offer a refund (which they won't) or an option to trade up multiple S7 hashes for a single S9 hash (very unlikely). So I would always assume that the hash that doesn't add up to a full physical machine is gone, since this isn't just the worst case, but also the most probable scenario. It would be nice if they'd just let us trade up old S7 hashes for a smaller amount of S9 hashes, but as I've said, that's very, very unlikely. They would miss out on a lot of profit by doing that..

If you go strictly by their ToS, the hash that hasn't been exchanged for physical machines will just sit in your account ... but won't do anything. You will still have the hash, but it won't mine for you, it will be a useless number in your profile. Whether Hashnest will allow you to exchange that number for S9 hash is pure speculation, but they really have no reason to (legally).

[cesmak]

That's because it's not mentioned in their TOS what happens if a user doesn't have enough GH/s except for "not eligible for hardware redemption." What if I don't have enough? What happens to it? Do we get a refund based on the current market price? Do we convert it into something else?

I see what you mean now. The hash that hasn't been used to exchange for physical machines will probably just be gone, as the machines are retired and Hashnest has no legal obligation to offer a refund (which they won't) or an option to trade up multiple S7 hashes for a single S9 hash (very unlikely). So I would always assume that the hash that doesn't add up to a full physical machine is gone, since this isn't just the worst case, but also the most probable scenario. It would be nice if they'd just let us trade up old S7 hashes for a smaller amount of S9 hashes, but as I've said, that's very, very unlikely. They would miss out on a lot of profit by doing that..

If you go strictly by their ToS, the hash that hasn't been exchanged for physical machines will just sit in your account ... but won't do anything. You will still have the hash, but it won't mine for you, it will be a useless number in your profile. Whether Hashnest will allow you to exchange that number for S9 hash is pure speculation, but they really have no reason to (legally).

Yes, and that's what happened when S2, S3, S4 and S5 went obsolete, no new story, the same procedure hashnest didn't change anything about his model business, are years that things are going in this way.

[lechatelier]

Don't get me wrong, though, there are still reasons to invest in the Hashnest market - very good reasons. Let's say you live in Iceland or Venezuela and you can practically disregard the cost of electricity altogether. Then mining with S7s at your own location is still profitable.

Now if you were to buy an S7 from Hashnest directly right now, it would be 0.662 BTC or roughly 435$. However, if you just buy the shares on the market, and the current price per share goes as low as 6000 sat / GHS, then you'll end up paying 0.292 BTC or roughly 195$ for one machine.

If you factor in the handling fees of 50$, then you'll be paying 245$ per machine (and you get some free running time until they become unprofitable and sent to you) in comparison to the 435$ you would have to pay ordering directly from Hashnest. That's a 44% discount at least (since we didn't factor in running time until they're being sent to you)



So if you are lucky enough to be in one of those locations were electricity just isn't an issue, or you have surplus electricity from other sources that needs to be used, like solar panels, then the Hashnest market can be a great place to look for cheap hashing machines right now.

Personally, I am not as lucky since the electricity costs in my country are enormous. However, the Antminer S7 is selling for 400-500$ on local websites in my country, regularly, so I'll probably just sell on the units I'll get through the redemption process, make a profit on those and invest everything in S9 hashes.



So as you can see, there are still multiple ways to profit from the heavy devaluation of the S7 hashes - however, it is not through cloud mining anymore, as they will soon become obsolete in that regard.

[ps_jb]

If you factor in the handling fees of 50$, then you'll be paying 245$ per ...

+ Shipping

But in general you are right - for places with electricity <3c per kWh it will be profitable for a while

[bapparabi]

by the way why the price is going quite low ..around 0.00006594 per ghs ..is s9 is going to be added in hasnest or its not more profitable that why

[lechatelier]

If you factor in the handling fees of 50$, then you'll be paying 245$ per ...

+ Shipping

But in general you are right - for places with electricity <3c per kWh it will be profitable for a while

The cost of shipping in this scenario is irrelevant as I was just making a comparison between ordering a new S7 from Hashnest directly (which would include shipping on top of those 435$ as well) and ordering through the Hashnest market (which will, as you've pointed out, come with shipping costs as well).

So since both options will have the same shipping costs, I assume, I just disregarded them in the comparison - I should have pointed that out in my previous post, I'm sorry. The handling fees, however, are exclusive to the redemption machines so it had to be factored in.



The price went as low as 5000 sat / GHS yesterday and as low as 6000 sat / GHS today, I think a lot of people are going to realize the potential of buying S7 shares cheap in order to redeem for machines and we will see an increase in price back up to the 8000 - 9000 sat / GHS range - that is, of course, unless Hashnest lowers their own price of new S7s. (When buying a new machine from Hashnest right now, you're practically paying 13500 sat / GHS)


EDIT: We were able to recover to 7600 sat / GHS but now hit a really bad block finding luck wall. Incoming big red blocks have the price plummeting again.

[Xanidas]

Anyone here got some news on when they will add s9 on the market? Market on s7 is dying, price drops 50% from the average price before the block halving

[pandalion98]

Anyone here got some news on when they will add s9 on the market? Market on s7 is dying, price drops 50% from the average price before the block halving

A 50% price drop is to be expected since the BTC block reward dropped by 50%, AKA "Halving".

[Xanidas]

Anyone here got some news on when they will add s9 on the market? Market on s7 is dying, price drops 50% from the average price before the block halving

A 50% price drop is to be expected since the BTC block reward dropped by 50%, AKA "Halving".

yes ofcourse i know about the halving effect on hashnest, i just asked about the market of s9 coz obviously i know what is happening why market on s7 is dying

[bapparabi]

as i can see s7 is dying now ..they will soon add s9 ..

also i can see now day hasnest + antpool is quite pathetic ..because maintenance fee is so high that i am in now minus balance  ..and there pool luck is also very bad as compare to before ..

not sure what is gogin on

we are early waiting for s9 to added in hashnest ..because s7 is not worth to use it now

[plexasm]

as i can see s7 is dying now ..they will soon add s9 ..

also i can see now day hasnest + antpool is quite pathetic ..because maintenance fee is so high that i am in now minus balance  ..and there pool luck is also very bad as compare to before ..

not sure what is gogin on

we are early waiting for s9 to added in hashnest ..because s7 is not worth to use it now

I think pool luck is down because AntPool has lost about 150 PH/s of power and thus is finding less blocks. If you notice, you're getting a higher share, so it should about even out to as if AntPool was finding 35 blocks/day.

The network has lost approximately 300 PH/s of power. I think we should wait to see what happens to the difficulty in 3 days before we decide to sell our machines or wait for them to become obsolete and try selling the hardware.