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[donsifon]

After all this, uou know whats gonna happen now, do not try to play with MOBILE, only with u IPs home, because with mobile if they see that there are 2 IPS (public wifi) at same time login or playing with FJ,, now FJ has a great excuse to avoid pay the withdrawals.

This is incorrect - will not lead to problems either. FJ does not need to change their TOS. It is very simple if you want to be honest: Register -> KYC -> play from this account. Even in cases where new users for whatever reason have the same IP as you, your winnings will not be affected by their accounts being frozen or deleted.

This is what happen with Vodds or Betinasia as example = First KYC, and later you can deposit and play. But do this in crypto gambling... its impossible I think. Crypto Players want to be anonymous.

[Lauda]

After all this, uou know whats gonna happen now, do not try to play with MOBILE, only with u IPs home, because with mobile if they see that there are 2 IPS (public wifi) at same time login or playing with FJ,, now FJ has a great excuse to avoid pay the withdrawals.

This is incorrect - will not lead to problems either. FJ does not need to change their TOS. It is very simple if you want to be honest: Register -> KYC -> play from this account. Even in cases where new users for whatever reason have the same IP as you, your winnings will not be affected by their accounts being frozen or deleted.

This is what happen with Vodds or Betinasia as example = First KYC, and later you can deposit and play. But do this in crypto gambling... its impossible I think. Crypto Players want to be anonymous.

You can't have it both ways. Either you get anonymity and such a TOS and state of things, or you lose anonymity and submit KYC to secure yourself. Either one argues that all casinos change their ways, or one should not argue at all (especially if there may be conflict bias - I do not know about other people's hiring requirements).

[hopenotlate]

-snip-

Also add to these scenarios an important aspect : all of these eventual bans you described would only take place if either Bob or Alice are winning something because all the controls seem to take place onle when players are winning and everything is allowed until you register, deposit and lose to the casino....and unfortunately it seems to be industry tandard in crypot gambling.

Why would you waste time and resources on people who may not even play?

Because if they decide to play they are allowed to do so and they should know it since the beginning. Because those players waste their time and resources on your site.

Or people that lose and therefore are unable to cause an action that breaks the TOS (the relevant part here) to begin with? You need to learn a thing or two about running a business.

This question contains a wrong statement ( the bolded part).
Their TOS clearly state : "You are allowed to register only one Account. Registering and operating multiple Accounts (more than one) is strictly prohibited."
Being a winning player or a loser doesn't affect your ability to breack their TOS.
TOS are broken the moment you register your second account but given that anonimity is appreciated in crypto gambling ( at least at the beginning we are allowed to register an account anonimously) I understand it may be difficult if not impossible detecting a multiaccounter the moment they register their accounts.
However I find putting all your strength into play only when the player wins is a bit unethical way to run a business.

Anyway, back to this specific case, given that all FJ explanation are true, I would judge highly likely we are talking about a mutliaccounting case.

[hd49728]

After all this, uou know whats gonna happen now, do not try to play with MOBILE, only with u IPs home, because with mobile if they see that there are 2 IPS (public wifi) at same time login or playing with FJ,, now FJ has a great excuse to avoid pay the withdrawals.

From the investigation disclosure of FJ above, if I understand FJ's investigation and judgement approaches, what you said is not right.

You don't have to worry about any second user who play on your same IP address because there are many things FJ will consider before going to final judgement on multi accounting.

- IP addresses: both ones used for account creations and log-ins.
- Betting behaviours: are the same or different.
- Relations between log-in periods of suspected accounts.
- Maybe more.

I believe you and others will be safe if you create your account at home, then go to public Wifi to bet. There are other FJ's users bet on the public wifi but if they don't find any prove of same betting behaviours, you will be safe.

FJ investigate through some grouped IPs, not only one.

Of course, it's still a bad idea to play at public wifi to prevent any suspection.

[joksim299]

After all this, uou know whats gonna happen now, do not try to play with MOBILE, only with u IPs home, because with mobile if they see that there are 2 IPS (public wifi) at same time login or playing with FJ,, now FJ has a great excuse to avoid pay the withdrawals.

From the investigation disclosure of FJ above, if I understand FJ's investigation and judgement approaches, what you said is not right.

You don't have to worry about any second user who play on your same IP address because there are many things FJ will consider before going to final judgement on multi accounting.

- IP addresses: both ones used for account creations and log-ins.
- Betting behaviours: are the same or different.
- Relations between log-in periods of suspected accounts.
- Maybe more.

I believe you and others will be safe if you create your account at home, then go to public Wifi to bet. There are other FJ's users bet on the public wifi but if they don't find any prove of same betting behaviours, you will be safe.

FJ investigate through some grouped IPs, not only one.

Of course, it's still a bad idea to play at public wifi to prevent any suspection.

The best way to prevent this is to not play on FJ!

[Lauda]

Because if they decide to play they are allowed to do so and they should know it since the beginning. Because those players waste their time and resources on your site.

Again, I highly advise you to educate yourself on running a business or ask successful business owners about it. You are making statements that are completely backwards. Economically, anything other than reviewing when necessary is a mistake unless regulation requires otherwise.

Or people that lose and therefore are unable to cause an action that breaks the TOS (the relevant part here) to begin with? You need to learn a thing or two about running a business.

This question contains a wrong statement ( the bolded part).
Their TOS clearly state : "You are allowed to register only one Account. Registering and operating multiple Accounts (more than one) is strictly prohibited."

You are right, I was wrong. I am glad I put a question mark there as I was not fully sure/misread that quickly.

However I find putting all your strength into play only when the player wins is a bit unethical way to run a business.

What are you blabbing on about? You are obligated to run a business this way, especially if you are a public limited company (not the case here). You have a duty to investors to make profit, not a duty to satisfy customers (not that this isn't a requirement for a successful business). Every single exchange will make it a nightmare for you when you try to withdraw, and not a single one will ask you anything when you deposit (maybe a couple basic KYC). Are you stating all these exchanges are unethical? If so, I do not see you going after them - therefore no case.

I believe you and others will be safe if you create your account at home, then go to public Wifi to bet. There are other FJ's users bet on the public wifi but if they don't find any prove of same betting behaviours, you will be safe.

The number of false positives is very minuscule and can be trivially resolved if the only factor is the same IP. People who bring forth these claims usually have triggered several other risk-factors and many gullible members fall for their cases.

The best way to prevent this is to not play on FJ!

You are free to play somewhere else, and leave this thread if it is of no interest to you.

[AlexSimion]

snip

The best way for people to take you seriously is to payback the loan you took out in 2015  .

FJ settled this case quite obviously , though at first the same IP reason given by them , was a bit lets say unsure to classify this case as multiple accounts cheating ,  their latest update regarding the betting patterns , betting activity of the 2nd account straight after the 1st one was limited etc made it pretty clear to "rule this case " in FJ's favour.

[allahabadi]

-

With this, we apologize to be linking this information public. Still, as the community has been involved in the case so actively and the Player has been so vocal, we believe that full transparency of the case is crucial. So all the information is decided to be public, to avoid any misjudgments over the matter.

Having gone thru the entire thread I have come to the conclusion that there is indeed strong connection between the two accounts and hence FJ is very much within the margin of error in this case.

Too many coincidences IMO to be ignored, but it wud hv been better had u clarified it in such a manner prior.

[Pmalek]

Both users created the account on the same day. One account was active until it got limited. Once it got limited the 2nd account woke up and continued a similar betting pattern (betting on low-level Challenger matches and other tennis matches). Doesn't this sound like too big of a coincidence? Two co-workers registering accounts and both are betting on the same tennis tournaments. 

I don't think KYC matter in this situation. The user can simply instruct his cousin, neighbor, random person to go through the KYC process

[amelik2]

1. We already went over why the accounts were created the same day. Obviously we know each other and were told about the site at the same time. I never accepted a bonus or free play and clearly bet limits were not an issue so what would the benefit be of having two accounts? As I've stated multiple times my account from day one was registered to my name and phone number. You verified 'PatDugan' confirming their info is different then what mine was registered with. Not once have you ever given me the chance to confirm my identity although I did that for you when I registered with my name!

2. 'Patdugans' bets and being sharp are irrelevant to anything regarding this situation.

3. On Feb 11th 'PatDugan' briefly mentioned to me that FJ has good in-game tennis options and I should check it out. Hence my deposit on 2/11. My deposit came from an account verified on another site which you still have not given me the chance to provide proof.

4. We are co-workers hence the same work wifi IP. You have yet to look into the IP's both players have logged in from via the weekends or after 5PM. You will clearly see we are both going home and logging in from our houses in different towns or separate cell phone 4G IP addresses likely often being logged in at the same time. Still waiting for you to explain how we were logged in 18 minutes apart in different cities if we are the same person!?

5. Because I do rolling live tennis bets just like 'PatDugan' you ASSUME we are the same player? You apparently cut off 'PatDugan' on 2/11 but post wagers from me on 2/18? You allowed me to place wagers for a week on a flagged account...were you hoping I would lose everything and you would take the 2k deposit and never raise a red flag?

6. Your terms and conditions do not apply as we are 2 separate users who offered to verify this.

7. We are 2 people with 2 separate accounts. This is no way a violation of your TOC.

Based on all that you posted you continue to allow 'PatDugan' to play on your site? So the player that wins 50k you refuse to pay and close their account but allow the other player to continue despite apparently breaking the rules of your 'TOC'?

If I really wanted to create multiple accounts and beat around the bush don't you think I would make sure not to use the same IP as someone else that I know is a player there? We are on multiple other books who have not once ever brought up a concern. Only after winning 50k does it become a problem...

[Thekool1s]

So the case is settled... I wish this information was presented right from the get-go and not vague TOS images were posted. The evidence presented is pretty compelling. I personally am pretty satisfied with the call of nullifying the winnings now, as mere IP logs weren't the evidence of it... As for apologizing for posting 'private' data, I don't think you guys have to apologize for it. The guy made a public accusation against you guys and it is only fair you guys publicly defend yourself. Might add something about this in the TOS as well...

If you want to improve the industry without just cherry picking and damaging certain service providers, you can do the following:
1) Make a thread about the importance of reading TOS before using something and keep promoting it to educate the masses.
2) Make a thread that will encourage and demand "all" gambling providers around here to have a clearer and fixed set of rules for this. e.g. KYC before deposits, which I would strongly argue against. e.g. Additional clauses for these multi-account scenarios, where some of the money is still given to the user and then banned for good - This I would argue for (albeit I am leaving the details of this example to others - it is just a very abstract idea).

Gonna do just that... I feel like this is something which the players should know about and the way I see it there is a huge gap in the market and with the right set of tools can change the gambling industry forever...

1) KYC is useless and does not work. You can buy full KYC for $50 - $150. Note: Do not tell me about the need of photos or videos with a piece of paper with today's date or anything similar. The $150 price range includes a person wearing a pink suit, standing on their left leg and writing whatever you want for this procedure. KYC does not work as a replacement for IP-analysis or fingerprinting.

Gonna discuss that in my thread, in the gambling discussion board... Gonna leave a link here once its up...

People need to be educated to read the TOS before using service, rather than blaming services for whatever TOS they use (in this particular case, you may want to start going after almost every single company in existence).

TBH I don't wanna become another Game-Protect... But I'm gonna create a thread to discuss/spread awareness about this.


I was about to post the above but then @amelik2 replied...

5. Because I do rolling live tennis bets just like 'PatDugan' you ASSUME we are the same player?

You never did rolling live tennis bets as your account was inactive and the day your buddy got banned, you decided to pop up and start betting in the same behaviour as your mate. Too big of a coincidence, Good luck trying to convince people on that...

If I really wanted to create multiple accounts and beat around the bush don't you think I would make sure not to use the same IP as someone else that I know is a player there? We are on multiple other books who have not once ever brought up a concern. Only after winning 50k does it become a problem...

We are all humans, we all make errors and you simply made an error by not ensuring that your IP was different when logging in. Also, Logging in on 2 accounts with different IPs isn't a hard thing to do... TBH I don't think you can convince me now that you guys are 2 separate people since you never disputed that the evidence presented by FJ is fake...

[buwaytress]

Right then, back to the betting. Who else here got screwed over by Barca in the Invincibles? Now it's 6 games gone and 0 streak of wins, so I suspect I could actually end the whole series with nothing to see.

Anyone watching the stats should have at least bet for the draw though, so I'm sure a few of you did, right? That's what I get for playing it like a smart ass. Speaking of smartassery... I just realised I backed a French upset tonight =D

[Betwrong]

Right then, back to the betting. ~

Yep, let's move on. After going through all that, I was tempted to say something about how Ross Ulbricht was caught, not because NSA, FBI or whoever were so smart, but mainly because of this post



with his real name in it. It was a terrible mistake, but it happened, and if he'd say in his defence, "Why would I do that, if I were operating the largest in the world illegall site?", it wouldn't look convincing, same way as this

~
If I really wanted to create multiple accounts and beat around the bush don't you think I would make sure not to use the same IP as someone else that I know is a player there? ~

doesn't. ... But, ok, let's move on. The case is closed.


A couple of days left till the end of MATCHDAY 28(22 February - 29 February).

What are your suggestions for this one, guys?

With the help of discussion here, I managed to make 4 right picks(my personal record) for the previous Matchday:



What about the next one? Can we succeed even better than that?

[buwaytress]

@Betwrong: yep, even the smartest people overlook simple, basic mistakes all the time (or should I say, especially the smartest people?). Meticulous people aren't necessarily highly intelligent either.

Anyway, nice 4/7, too bad you didn't get anything out of it, just 1 more hit and you'd have taken home something nice. I got 3/7 too actually, and same nada to show for it. Still a big miffed about Invincibles, a few unexpected results have taken me out of the game. Let's hope I do much better with 2nd legs. I mean, I got Lyon right, but then City screwed me haha.

[tokeweed]

Btw...  Khabib vs Ferguson is on April 18.  FJ!  Any chance we could get some early promotions up in anticipation for that event?  It's a yuuuge event. 

[FortuneJack]

Btw...  Khabib vs Ferguson is on April 18.  FJ!  Any chance we could get some early promotions up in anticipation for that event?  It's a yuuuge event. 

We will be definitely having some sort of promotion for that fight, stay tuned. 

[tokeweed]

^  Nice!  Can't wait!    I hope it's something that would involve the rest of the card too.  That Namajunas vs Andrade rematch will def be a good one.

[buwaytress]

We will be definitely having some sort of promotion for that fight, stay tuned. 

FJ I know I've asked before and you guys haven't responded, but don't you think you should really be updating Majestic Seven rosters? It's brought up elsewhere too. Love the competition and what you guys are doing is awesome but it kinda feels a bit weird to see people still in the wrong team (Tosun in Palace since January for example). And Minamino not in Liverpool squad (hey who knows)... and Harry Wilson still there haha.

If you want, the community here would be glad to help out!

[FortuneJack]

We will be definitely having some sort of promotion for that fight, stay tuned. 

FJ I know I've asked before and you guys haven't responded, but don't you think you should really be updating Majestic Seven rosters? It's brought up elsewhere too. Love the competition and what you guys are doing is awesome but it kinda feels a bit weird to see people still in the wrong team (Tosun in Palace since January for example). And Minamino not in Liverpool squad (hey who knows)... and Harry Wilson still there haha.

If you want, the community here would be glad to help out!

Thanks for notifying @, we're about to update the list, should be ready for the upcoming matchday.

[darewaller]

Btw...  Khabib vs Ferguson is on April 18.  FJ!  Any chance we could get some early promotions up in anticipation for that event?  It's a yuuuge event. 

We will be definitely having some sort of promotion for that fight, stay tuned. 

I don't get why people think Khabib vs Ferguson will be a huge event. I feel (at least personally) it would be just a exhibition level of fight where Khabib will definitely win. This is fighting and we have seen many favorites just get  destroyed as well so who knows maybe Khabib will lose but from where I am standing I will definitely wager in favor of Khabib to get that game unless some major injury gets reported before the fight.

I am even more enticed about the Khabib vs mcgregor potential rematch because that will not only be a great fight but there will be a lot more entertainment available as well and a lot of talking back and forth will happen before the fight.