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smooth
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September 18, 2014, 08:01:08 PM
 #161

Maybe the original CN was a honeypot made by the FBI who fabricated the story of a 2 year old dark web coin so they could lure criminals and terrorists to use it. And now BCX's friend found one of their backdoors.

Maybe it was developed by extraterrestrials. I did read that after all. Is it true ?

Dunno, which do you think is more likely?

Since I'm virtually certainly the FBI did not fabricate the 2 year story, I'd have to go with the extraterrestrials. Or lizard people, or the like.



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pa
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September 18, 2014, 08:15:18 PM
 #162

Maybe the original CN was a honeypot made by the FBI who fabricated the story of a 2 year old dark web coin so they could lure criminals and terrorists to use it. And now BCX's friend found one of their backdoors.

Maybe it was developed by extraterrestrials. I did read that after all. Is it true ?

Dunno, which do you think is more likely?

Since I'm virtually certainly the FBI did not fabricate the 2 year story, I'd have to go with the extraterrestrials. Or lizard people, or the like.



If CryptoNote were an intel agency honeypot, Bytecoin would have shipped with a polished GUI and a built-in marketplace for 3d-printed guns, illegal drugs, and child pornography.
TheFascistMind
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September 18, 2014, 08:21:46 PM
 #163

I'm refuting the notion that there exists some causal relationship between expenditure and value. That relationship is correlation in some cases, but not causation. Plenty of coins have been mined with great expenditure of resources yet are worthless now. The inverse is also true. Some coins have been mined quickly and without much expenditure, but are highly valued.

That is a very astute point. The value of a coin other than as an investor pump has been the value of a currency, which is related to the number of goods and services it can be spent on and moreover the number of people who use it as their unit-of-account. Bitcoin has done only moderate inroads on the former and failed miserably on the latter (Peter Thiel's Bitpay actively works to not make it a unit-of-account).

The only prayer of attaining unit-of-account status is to put the coin in a 100 - 1000 million spenders' hands such that both the former and latter are synergistic. Apple Pay is going to lock up 200 million within a year or so. Time is running out, but there is still the developing world, yet I see Bangladesh has threatened to jail users of crypto-currency and Ecuador is also hostile.

I've had my mind on bigger issues than just anonymity. Anonymity is personally important to me, but not to vast majority of consumers. A coins design has to factor these realities in.

I am AnonyMint (or BCX or Schrödinger's cat?).
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September 18, 2014, 08:24:29 PM
 #164

If CryptoNote were an intel agency honeypot, Bytecoin would have shipped with a polished GUI and a built-in marketplace for 3d-printed guns, illegal drugs, and child pornography.

I'm not familiar with what will hold in court in the states, but can they sell you drugs and then arrest you because you bought? In the movies they show police often trying to buy drugs from a dealer and if he sells, he's busted, so I guess that will stand. But the other way around?
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September 18, 2014, 08:31:28 PM
 #165

If CryptoNote were an intel agency honeypot, Bytecoin would have shipped with a polished GUI and a built-in marketplace for 3d-printed guns, illegal drugs, and child pornography.

I'm not familiar with what will hold in court in the states, but can they sell you drugs and then arrest you because you bought? In the movies they show police often trying to buy drugs from a dealer and if he sells, he's busted, so I guess that will stand. But the other way around?


We're drifting off topic, but take a look at this and draw your own conclusions about the direction of American jurisprudence: https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120430/02112518698/nytimes-realizes-that-fbi-keeps-celebrating-breaking-up-its-own-terrorist-plots.shtml
klee
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September 18, 2014, 10:26:34 PM
 #166

P.S. I am AnonyMint.
Weird how happy I am to see again the enlightening posts from a Prophet of Doom (paradox?), especially in these dark days lately...
Kuriso
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September 18, 2014, 10:43:30 PM
 #167

My question to smooth and other Monero developers is, "Has BCX revealed any exploit to any of you?", because the posts I've read from smooth seem to be wordsmithed in such a way as to avoid definitively answering that question.

No. You are reading into wordsmithing that doesn't exist.

Quote
rpietilla may not be part of the core team but he is heavily vested and has personal ties to someone that is.  As such he has access to insider information and is able to use that information to his advantage.  He might as well be considered part of the team.

Who is the person he has personal ties to?

I don't know what "personal ties" refers to exactly, but he certainly is friendly with several of the developers and I think David was going to be staying at his castle for a while. I'm not sure if that is still the plan, but regardless it has nothing to do with Risto's relationship to the project or (non) position in it.

But the part about "insider information" and "might as well be considered part of the team" is complete bullshit.


David (latapie I think is his last name) works for him.  One day while chatting in the troll box, he had someone offer to sell him a motorcycle and risto ask this guy to send David the details addressed to his castle.  You have someone that is/was (idk which right now) part of the team working for the guy that tries hard to control the monero market.

Quote
But the part about "insider information" and "might as well be considered part of the team" is complete bullshit.

Why is he constantly saying things that supports this?  Most recently during both recent monero attacks.  He comes out and says things that contradicts this statement.  Sure you can officially say he is not part of the team but you cannot deny the fact that he has more access to the team than just about anyone else here. 
smooth
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September 18, 2014, 10:48:48 PM
 #168

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But the part about "insider information" and "might as well be considered part of the team" is complete bullshit.

Why is he constantly saying things that supports this?  Most recently during both recent monero attacks.  He comes out and says things that contradicts this statement.

You would have to ask him. Perhaps he is a bit overenthusiastic, or perhaps just enthusiastic because he strongly supports and believes in the project (is that a bad thing?), and maybe that comes across as something other than what it is. It certainly does rub some people the wrong way, but that's life on the Internet. Get used to it.

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Sure you can officially say he is not part of the team but you cannot deny the fact that he has more access to the team than just about anyone else here.  

I 100% deny it. Anyone here is free to contact the team through posting, PM, and IRC (#monero and #monero-dev channels, as appropriate). We answer promptly and candidly to anyone. I have a hard time understanding how the team could possible be any more accessible. Someone from the team (often most of us) is available to anyone virtually 24 hours every single day.
TheFascistMind
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September 18, 2014, 11:29:49 PM
 #169

If BCX does have the "coin-killer" exploit he claims, and assuming his goal is to protect the users (the point of the clean out the shitcoins thread he is involved with), then he would not reveal this to the developers because they would then have an advantage over the users of Monero (and other CN coins such as BBR) in dumping the coin first. Thus I believe he has decided the fairest option at his disposal is to warn everyone of what will eventually come (someone will find and exploit it because of the anger that feels Monero hijacked the intent of Cryptonote to be a standard amongst many competing coins{*}) and let the users make their own decisions.

The clearest indication or hint of BCX's intent is in the following quote:

* After conversing with rpietilla I do not think he hired any trolls or is a scammer per say. I do think he has gotten himself into something he didn't expect and is simply trying to build a coin.

Clearly BCX is seeing an unfortunate confluence that has trapped many innocent parties. And he is trying to be as fair as he can in terms of how this will all unwind.

I am trying to figure out the exploit, if I can quickly. I don't have much time to devote to this, so I may have to abandon my attempt.

I don't want to cause a stampede run on the price of CN coins. I don't have any knowledge that the exploit exists, other than BCX's allegation. I know what I would do if I owned any CN coins at this time, which would be to make sure my exposed risk was a small % of my net worth at least until more clarity is obtained. BCX has a strong reputation and seems to have upstanding motives. He wants to see real innovation in crypto-currency. He has no strong aversion against CN, but apparently thinks it is sufficiently flawed thus isn't investing.

Given the scams alleged against the original Bytecoin developers, perhaps they were aware of the exploit all along and was planted as a Trojan horse. Of course that is wild speculation on the order of tooth fairies except we have BCX's reputation at stake on this allegation.


{*}
Yep. Reverse trolling is the strategy now.

Yah the correct strategy is

* Go to every redditt thread that talks about anonymity and crap about Monero. Because you know Monero invented CryptoNote and is fair.
* Piss people off by calling them premine scam repeatdly when the whole world knew about the premine scam.
* Argue with everyone in their threads that Monero is superior.
* Impose BTC support on everyone and their brother for Monero.
* Start calling CryptoNote whitepaper as Monero whitepaper.
* Have a team of core faggots faggoting about Monero everywhere they could think of.
* Call the most competitive CN altcoin a scam and call its developer a botnet operator. Create a special thread to make sure that the one legit CN competition gets swished away with the other coin mill coins. If all else fails make sure that you invoke mining controversy because you know Monero doesnt have any mining blemishes.
* Don't even mention BBR anywhere because you know people might start looking at it as the superior technical implementation of CryptoNote probably from one of the original CN good guys who didn't want any part of anything controversial.
* Have a bunch of sock puppets trolling Poloniex 24x7 pimping monero.
* Make sure an angel investor is baptizing everyone into Monero as soon as he meets them and more importantly share it with everyone here to make sure they know of the schedule and meetings.
* Spam a lot of threads on Altcoin section because you know it is important to convert everyone into Monero.

If all else fails, play victim of FUD.

Bunch of Legendary fags. This is why I got out of Monero. Yah I am ok to miss the Millionaire boat. You fags can go fuck each other all day long.


I am AnonyMint (or BCX or Schrödinger's cat?).
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September 18, 2014, 11:59:01 PM
 #170

David (latapie I think is his last name) works for him.  One day while chatting in the troll box, he had someone offer to sell him a motorcycle and risto ask this guy to send David the details addressed to his castle.  You have someone that is/was (idk which right now) part of the team working for the guy that tries hard to control the monero market.

This is no secret: http://cointelegraph.com/news/112411/finnish-investor-plans-to-turn-estonian-castle-into-a-bitcoin-center

Your point is missing me, what it has to do with anything, but the biggest question is why someone who bet on XMR dismiss is still trying to stir uncertain and doubts among the people.

Quote
Your point is missing me...
Where did I lose you?  Someone close to the monero inner circle has close ties to someone that tries hard to control and manipulate the monero market.  This gives him inside access to monero.  It would be a little different if he didn't have so much control over it.  You think this is a good thing?  Any other P.O.S. altcoin would be burned at the stake for supporting such things.  


What does a vote in a meaningless troll poll have to do with anything?  I'm not the only one.  The majority of others have voted the same way.


Quote
...I think David was going to be staying at his castle for a while. I'm not sure if that is still the plan...
If its no secret, why does smooth act like he doesn't know what's going on?


You should also link this one: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=786130.0

Congratz!! on being the most annoying coin community. ahhaha
smooth
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September 19, 2014, 12:09:37 AM
 #171

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...I think David was going to be staying at his castle for a while. I'm not sure if that is still the plan...
If its no secret, why does smooth act like he doesn't know what's going on?

Because I don't particularly pay attention to where people live nor their day jobs (you know we all have day jobs of sorts right?), and also because, as I said, the plan was a bit on-again off-again for a while, and at this very moment (aside from what has been said on this thread) I really have no idea what he is doing (nor do I particularly care, other than being friendly with David and generally supporting his decisions about how to live his own life).

David is a very intelligent and independent-minded person, and I have no doubt he can keep his living arrangements and day job (if he is indeed working for Risto, which I don't know) separate from his role on the Monero team. And even if he can't 100% do that, he's only 1/7 of the team, so any (entirely hypothetical) undue influence is extremely muted.

And on top of that, I don't really think Risto is a bad guy anyway. He simply seems to support the coin. I guess maybe its hard for you to believe that the coin has sincere supporters, but it does. He appears to be one of them.

There is nothing here, it is simply more FUD and smear tactics.
Johnny Mnemonic
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September 19, 2014, 12:16:19 AM
 #172

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Clearly BCX is seeing an unfortunate confluence that has trapped many innocent parties. And he is trying to be as fair as he can in terms of how this will all unwind.

Unfortunately, he timed his post right on schedule with the bi-weekly FUD/attacks XMR has been receiving. This will cool down and in two more weeks there will yet again be more bad news for monero. I'm not particularly familiar with BCX but his timing couldn't be more precise.
smooth
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September 19, 2014, 12:20:49 AM
 #173

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Clearly BCX is seeing an unfortunate confluence that has trapped many innocent parties. And he is trying to be as fair as he can in terms of how this will all unwind.

Unfortunately, he timed his post right on schedule with the bi-weekly FUD/attacks XMR has been receiving. This will cool down and in two more weeks there will yet again be more bad news for monero. I'm not particularly familiar with BCX but his timing couldn't be more precise.

Interesting observation that I hadn't seen before. It does indeed line up with the price chart reasonably well.

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September 19, 2014, 12:31:59 AM
 #174

Quote
Clearly BCX is seeing an unfortunate confluence that has trapped many innocent parties. And he is trying to be as fair as he can in terms of how this will all unwind.

Unfortunately, he timed his post right on schedule with the bi-weekly FUD/attacks XMR has been receiving. This will cool down and in two more weeks there will yet again be more bad news for monero. I'm not particularly familiar with BCX but his timing couldn't be more precise.

Interesting observation that I hadn't seen before. It does indeed line up with the price chart reasonably well.

Maybe you are correct and you should buy these dips. Or just maybe BCX loves to play on overconfidence and figures those who should be harmed most will be. I dunno. This is bizarre.

I am AnonyMint (or BCX or Schrödinger's cat?).
smooth
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September 19, 2014, 12:33:26 AM
 #175

Quote
Clearly BCX is seeing an unfortunate confluence that has trapped many innocent parties. And he is trying to be as fair as he can in terms of how this will all unwind.

Unfortunately, he timed his post right on schedule with the bi-weekly FUD/attacks XMR has been receiving. This will cool down and in two more weeks there will yet again be more bad news for monero. I'm not particularly familiar with BCX but his timing couldn't be more precise.

Interesting observation that I hadn't seen before. It does indeed line up with the price chart reasonably well.

Maybe you are correct and you should buy these dips. Or just maybe BCX loves to play on overconfidence and figures those who should be harmed most will be. I dunno. This is bizarre.

Obviously it could be a complete coincidence as well.
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September 19, 2014, 12:38:35 AM
 #176

Quote
Clearly BCX is seeing an unfortunate confluence that has trapped many innocent parties. And he is trying to be as fair as he can in terms of how this will all unwind.

Unfortunately, he timed his post right on schedule with the bi-weekly FUD/attacks XMR has been receiving. This will cool down and in two more weeks there will yet again be more bad news for monero. I'm not particularly familiar with BCX but his timing couldn't be more precise.

Interesting observation that I hadn't seen before. It does indeed line up with the price chart reasonably well.

Maybe you are correct and you should buy these dips. Or just maybe BCX loves to play on overconfidence and figures those who should be harmed most will be. I dunno. This is bizarre.

Obviously it could be a complete coincidence as well.


I can't believe you guys have managed to turn this into another Monero speculation thread!  Grin
smooth
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September 19, 2014, 12:39:54 AM
 #177

Quote
Clearly BCX is seeing an unfortunate confluence that has trapped many innocent parties. And he is trying to be as fair as he can in terms of how this will all unwind.

Unfortunately, he timed his post right on schedule with the bi-weekly FUD/attacks XMR has been receiving. This will cool down and in two more weeks there will yet again be more bad news for monero. I'm not particularly familiar with BCX but his timing couldn't be more precise.

Interesting observation that I hadn't seen before. It does indeed line up with the price chart reasonably well.

Maybe you are correct and you should buy these dips. Or just maybe BCX loves to play on overconfidence and figures those who should be harmed most will be. I dunno. This is bizarre.

Obviously it could be a complete coincidence as well.


I can't believe you guys have managed to turn this into another Monero speculation thread!  Grin

Welcome. What do you think of today's candles?
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September 19, 2014, 12:40:54 AM
 #178

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...I think David was going to be staying at his castle for a while. I'm not sure if that is still the plan...
If its no secret, why does smooth act like he doesn't know what's going on?

Because I don't particularly pay attention to where people live nor their day jobs (you know we all have day jobs of sorts right?), and also because, as I said, the plan was a bit on-again off-again for a while, and at this very moment (aside from what has been said on this thread) I really have no idea what he is doing (nor do I particularly care, other than being friendly with David and generally supporting his decisions about how to live his own life).

David is a very intelligent and independent-minded person, and I have no doubt he can keep his living arrangements and day job (if he is indeed working for Risto, which I don't know) separate from his role on the Monero team. And even if he can't 100% do that, he's only 1/7 of the team, so any (entirely hypothetical) undue influence is extremely muted.

And on top of that, I don't really think Risto is a bad guy anyway. He simply seems to support the coin. I guess maybe its hard for you to believe that the coin has sincere supporters, but it does. He appears to be one of them.

There is nothing here, it is simply more FUD and smear tactics.


I guess I could of worded that a bit differently.  I was only trying to show Nekomata that David and Risto working together is not common knowledge for everyone.  I didn't know it until he said that in the trollbox.

David may be intelligent and independent-minded person.  Never said he wasn't.  But having no doubt about what he can and cannot do carries very little weight here.  You have no control over the situation and in no way can you speak to the certainty of this.  Neither can I.  I'm only expressing my concern about the control he tries to put on the monero market and having someone closely tied to monero working for you is not a good situation.

I never really said he was a bad guy either but he does more than simply try to support a coin.  You have no idea what I believe therefore you have no room to comment on my beliefs of sincere supporters.

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September 19, 2014, 12:50:38 AM
 #179

I am too sleepy to work through the math of my intuitive hunch. But looking again at the NIZKP in the CN whitepaper, I am suspecting that when the same rings are used by all or some of the members in the ring, then maybe 'x' the private key can be determined from a system of equations.  Then if one had sufficient hashrate to fork (rewind) the blockchain, they could double-spend these wallets to other destination addresses.

Perhaps have your cryptanalysis guy look at this, if I don't get a change to come back to it.

I am AnonyMint (or BCX or Schrödinger's cat?).
smooth
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September 19, 2014, 12:54:01 AM
 #180

Quote
...I think David was going to be staying at his castle for a while. I'm not sure if that is still the plan...
If its no secret, why does smooth act like he doesn't know what's going on?

Because I don't particularly pay attention to where people live nor their day jobs (you know we all have day jobs of sorts right?), and also because, as I said, the plan was a bit on-again off-again for a while, and at this very moment (aside from what has been said on this thread) I really have no idea what he is doing (nor do I particularly care, other than being friendly with David and generally supporting his decisions about how to live his own life).

David is a very intelligent and independent-minded person, and I have no doubt he can keep his living arrangements and day job (if he is indeed working for Risto, which I don't know) separate from his role on the Monero team. And even if he can't 100% do that, he's only 1/7 of the team, so any (entirely hypothetical) undue influence is extremely muted.

And on top of that, I don't really think Risto is a bad guy anyway. He simply seems to support the coin. I guess maybe its hard for you to believe that the coin has sincere supporters, but it does. He appears to be one of them.

There is nothing here, it is simply more FUD and smear tactics.


I guess I could of worded that a bit differently.  I was only trying to show Nekomata that David and Risto working together is not common knowledge for everyone.  I didn't know it until he said that in the trollbox.

David may be intelligent and independent-minded person.  Never said he wasn't.  But having no doubt about what he can and cannot do carries very little weight here.  You have no control over the situation and in no way can you speak to the certainty of this.  Neither can I.  I'm only expressing my concern about the control he tries to put on the monero market and having someone closely tied to monero working for you is not a good situation.

I never really said he was a bad guy either but he does more than simply try to support a coin.  You have no idea what I believe therefore you have no room to comment on my beliefs of sincere supporters.

Let's keep this simple. If David is working with Risto and living in his castle I couldn't care less. If you think that being the case is going to make any real difference to people thinking critically about the value of the coin and the success of the project, then we will simply have to agree to disagree.

If we do indeed disagree, I'd suggest you should get out of this FUD echo chamber a bit more and talk to some real people. Find out what they really think is important or not important about open source projects when they aren't obsessed with playing "shit on the other altcoin" game that is so popular here.

I've talked to a lot of people about Monero who cared enough to examine it in detail and ask me critical questions, sometimes many such questions. Some decided they didn't like it at all, some decided they did. Not once can I think of did the question of Risto's (non) involvement come up, except in public posts on this forum. Obviously those are playing to an audience. Whether you are doing that deliberately or just caught up in the "shit on other altcoins" game, I have no idea, but either way you are doing it.

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