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TinEye
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September 19, 2014, 10:42:58 AM
 #221

If Bitcoinexpress has an exploit, just use it already. The Monero and anti-Monero trolling has become an all out war. At this moment anybody winning is good for us.



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TheFascistMind
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September 19, 2014, 11:00:37 AM
 #222

(but does intend to donate to development) and doesn't hold any position of authority over the project itself.

He who pays the bills, makes the rules.

As much as practical I resist control in order to maximize creative freedom.

Quote from: Eric Raymond who coined the term "open source"
That’s what you get, and that’s all you get. If that isn’t enough, take your pretensions to power that you no longer possess and ram them up the bodily orifice of your choice.

when think of monero guyes on Bitcointalk

Ignore. I don't want to see that.

The feelings are really excessive in this Monero pro and against battle.

I am AnonyMint (or BCX or Schrödinger's cat?).
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September 19, 2014, 11:01:38 AM
 #223

@BCX (and or AnonyMint)

Regarding #1 and #3, is the BBR code base with its different PoW and other core changes already resistant to the same exploit?

Edit: https://github.com/cryptozoidberg/boolberry




* I have found very specific exploits in CN that have not been fixed

If that is true, it will affect all CN coins. Since Boolberry just places some restrictions to
the set of possible anon transactions it would not be resistant.

However

2) There is no break down in the encryption but in how it is implemented.


This was about #1 and #3 and not addressed to you (for a good reason).


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David Latapie
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September 19, 2014, 11:06:39 AM
 #224

the lead developer "smooth"

the lead developer "smooth"

There is no "lead developer" in Monero. There are developers and some also happen to be core members.
We are trying hard to avoid hierarchy, please respect that.

The monero economy workgroup (MEW) is not a foundation.
See: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=776479.0

The voting aspect could be conveyed by "Parliament" or similar. "Council", even "Consortium" have been proposed. "Foundation" is often used but was rejected in yesterday's meeting.

So basically it's a foundation but not called foundation
Stricto censu, a foundation is a legally-registered body, sometimes with tax-deduction (when it is a charitable foundation, unlike the Gates Foundation). So MEW is not a foundation per se. Also, foundation usually govern the orientation of a project (this is not mandatory, though, just very common). Again, this is not what MEW will do. Under the French law, it would be called a "non-registered association" and there is probably something similar in any democracy (de facto association).
MEW is a collective. Period.

Monero: the first crytocurrency to bring bank secrecy and net neutrality to the blockchain.HyperStake: pushing the limits of staking.
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TheFascistMind
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September 19, 2014, 11:20:36 AM
 #225

One thing I have learned from the Monero example is, "tread softly and carry a really big stick".

Action speaks louder than words.

I am AnonyMint (or BCX or Schrödinger's cat?).
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September 19, 2014, 11:23:05 AM
 #226

(but does intend to donate to development) and doesn't hold any position of authority over the project itself.

He who pays the bills, makes the rules.

That would be true if there was some plan to have this group pay the bills, or channel all/most funding through the group (there isn't). In reality the envisioned donations from such a group don't come close to being adequate to do so. It will just be one funding source among others, not at all unlike the members of such a group donating individually.

One purpose for the group making donations, in fact, is internal to the group itself: to discourage membership by those who would seek to undermine the project. Since the group is open and anyone can join, that would be a risk. But anyone doing that will have a portion of his membership dues directed to donations to support the project, directly undermining his own interests. So think of it as a form of anti-spam/abuse.


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September 19, 2014, 11:27:20 AM
 #227

smooth and rpietila, this is a good experiment so we can contrast what works and doesn't. I hope you can continue with your bureaucracy. I am headed the opposite direction, which is small lone teams self-funded by tiny (insignificant) premine to reach it to the launchpad stage. Let's see what works better.

I wish I could offer a suggestion on how to alleviate the strong emotions at play. It seems some users really resent any hint of hierarchy and coaxing of investors. Perhaps it is the comments against NXT and BBR that really pushed it to the extreme. I have also made some comments that disparaged for example the PoS in NXT, the lack of true decentralization in jl777's gateway, the lack of analysis on the entropy of BBR's PoW, etc.. I guess best is to shut up about everyone else's work and focus on one's own.

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September 19, 2014, 11:36:34 AM
 #228

I wish I could offer a suggestion on how to alleviate the strong emotions at play. It seems some users really resent any hint of hierarchy and coaxing of investors.

I think you are right to an extent, but I think you are missing that simply any project that gets any degree of success or traction in this environment is brutally attacked. Monero has come out of nowhere to recently being a top 10 market cap coin (its fallen slightly out of that group; #10-15 are very close to being tied). Other projects have been similarly attacked. Monero is just the current installment.

So yes some of it is a reaction to rpietila directly and other aspects of the project, but much of it comes from people who find something to attack regardless. If not one thing it would be another.

I don't much care what people attack though. So yes the vitriol and FUD and shills and personal attacks are disgusting and sad, as you have seen, but ultimately meaningless.

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September 19, 2014, 11:41:21 AM
 #229

Maybe not if they can all find a way to profit on its rise. That is my hope any way. I know such vitriol would affect me emotionally. Perhaps I better just not read anything on the forum if that time ever comes.

I am AnonyMint (or BCX or Schrödinger's cat?).
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September 19, 2014, 11:46:38 AM
 #230

I wish I could offer a suggestion on how to alleviate the strong emotions at play. It seems some users really resent any hint of hierarchy and coaxing of investors.

I think you are right to an extent, but I think you are missing that simply any project that gets any degree of success or traction in this environment is brutally attacked. Monero has come out of nowhere to recently being a top 10 market cap coin (its fallen slightly out of that group; #10-15 are very close to being tied). Other projects have been similarly attacked. Monero is just the current installment.

So yes some of it is a reaction to rpietila directly and other aspects of the project, but much of it comes from people who find something to attack regardless. If not one thing it would be another.

I don't much care what people attack though. So yes the vitriol and FUD and shills and personal attacks are disgusting and sad, as you have seen, but ultimately meaningless.



smooth, you have turned into a full blown arrogant retard. You weren't this way when BitMonero was launched. XMR was the community CN coin. Brushing it as a coin that gets hated due to success is incorrect. There are a ton of reasons it gets hated and success is just a minor reason (just check few pages ago). If XMR market were a 10th of the current market and rest of the things around it were same, it would still get attacked, just like Bytecoin gets called out for their misgivings.

The success excuse is the same breath as the other tiring rhetoric that we use here "they hate us for our freedoms". They don't.


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September 19, 2014, 11:54:17 AM
 #231

~BCX~

Is there anyway for you to post some proof of these issues without giving them away?  I bet there isn't but it would be great if you could.

In a way there is. He could write up a description (or use some existing one he probably already has) and post a hash of it. After it is discovered by someone else, he can disclose his original writeup, and the hash can be verified.

Odds of that happening is probably about the same as him(?) not being full of hot air. 9 to 1 against or so.
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September 19, 2014, 11:54:23 AM
 #232

I wish I could offer a suggestion on how to alleviate the strong emotions at play. It seems some users really resent any hint of hierarchy and coaxing of investors.

I think you are right to an extent, but I think you are missing that simply any project that gets any degree of success or traction in this environment is brutally attacked. Monero has come out of nowhere to recently being a top 10 market cap coin (its fallen slightly out of that group; #10-15 are very close to being tied). Other projects have been similarly attacked. Monero is just the current installment.

So yes some of it is a reaction to rpietila directly and other aspects of the project, but much of it comes from people who find something to attack regardless. If not one thing it would be another.

I don't much care what people attack though. So yes the vitriol and FUD and shills and personal attacks are disgusting and sad, as you have seen, but ultimately meaningless.



smooth, you have turned into a full blown arrogant retard. You weren't this way when BitMonero was launched. XMR was the community CN coin. Brushing it as a coin that gets hated due to success is incorrect. There are a ton of reasons it gets hated and success is just a minor reason (just check few pages ago). If XMR market were a 10th of the current market and rest of the things around it were same, it would still get attacked, just like Bytecoin gets called out for their misgivings.

The success excuse is the same breath as the other tiring rhetoric that we use here "they hate us for our freedoms". They don't.

People hate for any number of reasons, I can't account for all of them. Honestly though, I think hate is pervasive in this environment. Its a contagious disease, and this "community" (tough word to even use any more) is being consumed by it.

Not one of the top 10 coins has escaped a barrage of attacks, certainly not any of the newer ones (one might exclude say NMC -- no one seems to care much about that one either way). I see hatred against every one of them constantly.

In the case of XMR in particular, much of the hatred is in response to actions by trolls that have nothing to do with us, some strategic, and some who just want to stir shit up for their own amusement. That further creates more trolls, particularly in the later group, who create more and more problems in a repeating and escalating cycle of attacks. As I said, the culture here is just sick and disgusting. Or maybe it is a just a few who are spoiling it for everyone and I shouldn't paint with such a broad brush. But the effect is the same.




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September 19, 2014, 12:02:29 PM
 #233

I wish I could offer a suggestion on how to alleviate the strong emotions at play. It seems some users really resent any hint of hierarchy and coaxing of investors.

I think you are right to an extent, but I think you are missing that simply any project that gets any degree of success or traction in this environment is brutally attacked. Monero has come out of nowhere to recently being a top 10 market cap coin (its fallen slightly out of that group; #10-15 are very close to being tied). Other projects have been similarly attacked. Monero is just the current installment.

So yes some of it is a reaction to rpietila directly and other aspects of the project, but much of it comes from people who find something to attack regardless. If not one thing it would be another.

I don't much care what people attack though. So yes the vitriol and FUD and shills and personal attacks are disgusting and sad, as you have seen, but ultimately meaningless.



smooth, you have turned into a full blown arrogant retard. You weren't this way when BitMonero was launched. XMR was the community CN coin. Brushing it as a coin that gets hated due to success is incorrect. There are a ton of reasons it gets hated and success is just a minor reason (just check few pages ago). If XMR market were a 10th of the current market and rest of the things around it were same, it would still get attacked, just like Bytecoin gets called out for their misgivings.

The success excuse is the same breath as the other tiring rhetoric that we use here "they hate us for our freedoms". They don't.

People hate for any number of reasons, I can't account for all of them. Honestly though, I think hate is pervasive in this environment. Its a contagious disease, and this "community" (tough word to even use any more) is being consumed by it.

Not one of the top 10 coins has escaped a barrage of attacks, certainly not any of the newer ones (one might exclude say NMC -- no one seems to care much about that one either way). I see hatred against every one of them constantly.


No one said you are accountable for all of them. What I did say was stop trying to pin the hatred on fake market success inducing jealousy. It is a convenient excuse that is not applicable here if you start introspection given several other reasons that have been mentioned by now. 


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smooth
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September 19, 2014, 12:11:07 PM
 #234

I wish I could offer a suggestion on how to alleviate the strong emotions at play. It seems some users really resent any hint of hierarchy and coaxing of investors.

I think you are right to an extent, but I think you are missing that simply any project that gets any degree of success or traction in this environment is brutally attacked. Monero has come out of nowhere to recently being a top 10 market cap coin (its fallen slightly out of that group; #10-15 are very close to being tied). Other projects have been similarly attacked. Monero is just the current installment.

So yes some of it is a reaction to rpietila directly and other aspects of the project, but much of it comes from people who find something to attack regardless. If not one thing it would be another.

I don't much care what people attack though. So yes the vitriol and FUD and shills and personal attacks are disgusting and sad, as you have seen, but ultimately meaningless.



smooth, you have turned into a full blown arrogant retard. You weren't this way when BitMonero was launched. XMR was the community CN coin. Brushing it as a coin that gets hated due to success is incorrect. There are a ton of reasons it gets hated and success is just a minor reason (just check few pages ago). If XMR market were a 10th of the current market and rest of the things around it were same, it would still get attacked, just like Bytecoin gets called out for their misgivings.

The success excuse is the same breath as the other tiring rhetoric that we use here "they hate us for our freedoms". They don't.

People hate for any number of reasons, I can't account for all of them. Honestly though, I think hate is pervasive in this environment. Its a contagious disease, and this "community" (tough word to even use any more) is being consumed by it.

Not one of the top 10 coins has escaped a barrage of attacks, certainly not any of the newer ones (one might exclude say NMC -- no one seems to care much about that one either way). I see hatred against every one of them constantly.


No one said you are accountable for all of them. What I did say was stop trying to pin the hatred on fake market success inducing jealousy. It is a convenient excuse that is not applicable here if you start introspection given several other reasons that have been mentioned by now. 

I didn't say jealousy at all. You projected that. I said the hate gets spewed around on everyone and being a high profile target means you necessarily catch a lot of it.

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September 19, 2014, 12:12:48 PM
 #235

As I said, the culture here is just sick and disgusting.

Now you know how I felt when you guys were discussing spin-off as altcoin killer.

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smooth
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September 19, 2014, 12:16:44 PM
 #236

As I said, the culture here is just sick and disgusting.

Now you know how I felt when you guys were discussing spin-off as altcoin killer.

You guys? I find the spin-off concept interesting and a worthy experiment. I'm sure there are some people who want it to kill off altcoins (same with side-chains for example, an idea I've been far more critical of than spin-offs). I doubt you can find anywhere that I said I wanted to kill off altcoins. Again, it is easy to fall into projection.

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September 19, 2014, 12:17:54 PM
 #237

I wish I could offer a suggestion on how to alleviate the strong emotions at play. It seems some users really resent any hint of hierarchy and coaxing of investors.

I think you are right to an extent, but I think you are missing that simply any project that gets any degree of success or traction in this environment is brutally attacked. Monero has come out of nowhere to recently being a top 10 market cap coin (its fallen slightly out of that group; #10-15 are very close to being tied). Other projects have been similarly attacked. Monero is just the current installment.

So yes some of it is a reaction to rpietila directly and other aspects of the project, but much of it comes from people who find something to attack regardless. If not one thing it would be another.

I don't much care what people attack though. So yes the vitriol and FUD and shills and personal attacks are disgusting and sad, as you have seen, but ultimately meaningless.



smooth, you have turned into a full blown arrogant retard. You weren't this way when BitMonero was launched. XMR was the community CN coin. Brushing it as a coin that gets hated due to success is incorrect. There are a ton of reasons it gets hated and success is just a minor reason (just check few pages ago). If XMR market were a 10th of the current market and rest of the things around it were same, it would still get attacked, just like Bytecoin gets called out for their misgivings.

The success excuse is the same breath as the other tiring rhetoric that we use here "they hate us for our freedoms". They don't.

People hate for any number of reasons, I can't account for all of them. Honestly though, I think hate is pervasive in this environment. Its a contagious disease, and this "community" (tough word to even use any more) is being consumed by it.

Not one of the top 10 coins has escaped a barrage of attacks, certainly not any of the newer ones (one might exclude say NMC -- no one seems to care much about that one either way). I see hatred against every one of them constantly.


No one said you are accountable for all of them. What I did say was stop trying to pin the hatred on fake market success inducing jealousy. It is a convenient excuse that is not applicable here if you start introspection given several other reasons that have been mentioned by now. 

I didn't say jealousy at all. You projected that. I said the hate gets spewed around on everyone and being a high profile target means you necessarily catch a lot of it.



It was implied and wasn't the crux of the argument. You running in stubborn circles around the arguments is not going to help you identify those or rectify those. It has very little to do with high profile or success.


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netmonk
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September 19, 2014, 12:18:55 PM
 #238

...It is a convenient excuse that is not applicable here if you start introspection given several other reasons that have been mentioned by now... 

Please be kind to list those "other reasons" which have been mentioned by now as a reminder !
smooth
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September 19, 2014, 12:24:31 PM
 #239

It was implied and wasn't the crux of the argument. You running in stubborn circles around the arguments is not going to help you identify those or rectify those. It has very little to do with high profile or success.

Sorry, I don't agree with you that it is possible to avoid or even significantly reduce hatred, trolls, FUD and hatred in this environment. It would be running in circles to try, so I won't and nor will the project.

Did you hear the recent Let's Talk Bitcoin that covered Monero? It was interesting and informative in general. Andreas gave a good perspective toward the end about how every single high profile person (and I would add project) in this environment has been attacked, trolled, insulted, slandered, etc. Relentlessly and repeatedly and brutally. I agree with him.

If you want to play here, get used to it. It is disgusting and sad, but it is also reality. End of story.
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September 19, 2014, 12:29:14 PM
 #240

If you want to scam here, get used to it. It is disgusting and sad, but it is also reality. End of story.


FTFY

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