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Author Topic: [2014-09-18] Bitcoin Core Developer Jeff Garzik Believes NXT is a “Scamcoin”  (Read 9709 times)
devphp
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October 08, 2014, 04:20:11 PM
 #181

The original claimant has the responsibility to offer falsification. Popper may not be dead, but this is a basic axiom of science. NXT users claim that it cannot become permanently centralized. They offer no test to verify if it is decentralized. They just say so.

Isn't the original claimant here Jeff Garzik? He posted accusations, he has the responsibility to prove. So far there's been no proof whatsoever. And you guys attacking NXT are just piggybacking on Jeff's accusations, possessing no proof either.
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October 08, 2014, 05:23:24 PM
 #182


NXT users claim that it cannot become permanently centralized. They offer no test to verify if it is decentralized. They just say so.

PoS crypto like NXT platforms will get more and more decentralized. More users using/owning NXT -> better distribution -> more lightweight wallets staking (on phones and raspberrypi's) -> even more secure network. Also, as soon as the Transparent Forging technology is ready, one would need to own (=buy) more than 90+% of all NXT, if I understand correctly. That would drive the price of NXT through the roof.

BTC will become more and more centralized (physically). As difficulty of mining increases, it can't be done by consumers, only by companies that can invest in expensive equipment. Companies merge and get bought. They will be in central locations that can house massive server parks, needing huge amounts of energy. It's much easier and cheaper to (physically) attack of hack of dismantle a couple of centralized server farms than it is to take down a decentralized network that runs on peoples phones and private computers.

Seems rather obvious actually.
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October 08, 2014, 05:57:03 PM
 #183


NXT users claim that it cannot become permanently centralized. They offer no test to verify if it is decentralized. They just say so.

PoS crypto like NXT platforms will get more and more decentralized. More users using/owning NXT -> better distribution -> more lightweight wallets staking (on phones and raspberrypi's) -> even more secure network. Also, as soon as the Transparent Forging technology is ready, one would need to own (=buy) more than 90+% of all NXT, if I understand correctly. That would drive the price of NXT through the roof.

You're talking about hypotheticals and vaporware. Go you.

BTC will become more and more centralized (physically). As difficulty of mining increases, it can't be done by consumers, only by companies that can invest in expensive equipment. Companies merge and get bought. They will be in central locations that can house massive server parks, needing huge amounts of energy. It's much easier and cheaper to (physically) attack of hack of dismantle a couple of centralized server farms than it is to take down a decentralized network that runs on peoples phones and private computers.

Seems rather obvious actually.
Calling miners centralized is meaningless. Technology development doesn't stand still. There is always someone competing. Companies merge and also split. Your argument is a red herring. The whole energy thing is called work. That's why it's called proof of work.

Seems rather obvious actually.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
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October 08, 2014, 06:00:31 PM
 #184

Well, at least now we're sure it's a waste of time to try to have a rational discussion with user cbeast. He's just trolling.
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October 08, 2014, 06:02:00 PM
 #185

I am not against the design of nxt.

 Roll Eyes Okay.  So what are you against?  That's like saying, "I'm not against the design of Bitcoin, but I'm against Gox hacks, I'm against Satoshi mining solo for a year, I'm against the way mining has become corporate etc... so I think Bitcoin is a scam coin"  The lists of reasons Jeff thinks Nxt is a scam are all superficial and have nothing to do with the core technology.  Regardless, you tear down rather than build up, be constructive, do something good for crypto.
Dude, I never said I hated nxt. I just don't agree with some of the claims about it. It is simply not provably decentralized. You can say the same thing about Bitcoin if you want. I don't care. This is getting to be a religious argument. Nxt proponents that claim it is decentralized are making unfalsifiable claims. There is plenty of room for centralized coins that don't use any electricity.


Nxt proponents that claim it is decentralized are making unfalsifiable claims.

when you make claims it is centralized you are making unfalsifiable claims.

you cant have one with out the other. prove one is correct and from that you can prove the other to be false. find proof before posting again and STOP SPREADING FUD. im not arguing now which is one is a true statement ie nxt is centralised or not, im just pointing out that you are an idiot if you think you can say one is fact and the other is unfalsifiable. and dont say that you have not stated, as if it were fact, that nxt is centralised because you have many times. your an outright hypocrite with motivations that cause you to post such bullsh*t.
The original claimant has the responsibility to offer falsification. Popper may not be dead, but this is a basic axiom of science. NXT users claim that it cannot become permanently centralized. They offer no test to verify if it is decentralized. They just say so.



Isn't the original claimant here Jeff Garzik? He posted accusations, he has the responsibility to prove. So far there's been no proof whatsoever. And you guys attacking NXT are just piggybacking on Jeff's accusations, possessing no proof either.
Please stop taking my statements out of context.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
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October 10, 2014, 01:31:59 PM
 #186

Please stop taking my statements out of context.

Your statements only apply in limited context then? How is that not hypocritical? Isn't the burden of proof on the shoulders of one who makes accusations?
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October 10, 2014, 11:38:42 PM
 #187

Please stop taking my statements out of context.

Your statements only apply in limited context then? How is that not hypocritical? Isn't the burden of proof on the shoulders of one who makes accusations?

He's just trying to troll you for the sake of bumping a thread he likes. Just let it die.

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October 11, 2014, 12:44:40 AM
 #188

The original claimant has the responsibility to offer falsification. Popper may not be dead, but this is a basic axiom of science. NXT users claim that it cannot become permanently centralized. They offer no test to verify if it is decentralized. They just say so.

Isn't the original claimant here Jeff Garzik? He posted accusations, he has the responsibility to prove. So far there's been no proof whatsoever. And you guys attacking NXT are just piggybacking on Jeff's accusations, possessing no proof either.

In order to save electricity and mining costs, NxT removes all incentive for economic activity by punishing spenders with PoS mining. Bitcoin has this problem only when it is experiencing a bubble, and over time, as the bubbles become smaller and less volatile, there will be zero incentive to hold bitcoin as an investment.
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October 11, 2014, 01:05:46 AM
 #189

In order to save electricity and mining costs, NxT removes all incentive for economic activity by punishing spenders with PoS mining. Bitcoin has this problem only when it is experiencing a bubble, and over time, as the bubbles become smaller and less volatile, there will be zero incentive to hold bitcoin as an investment.

I'm ignoring my own advice, but you clearly don't understand how NXT forging works. Less than 10% of NXT holders have enough NXT to stand a shot at actually forging blocks.

Therefore, 90% of users aren't "punished" with PoS mining, any more than bitcoin users are punished with PoW mining.

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October 11, 2014, 05:41:54 AM
 #190

In order to save electricity and mining costs, NxT removes all incentive for economic activity by punishing spenders with PoS mining. Bitcoin has this problem only when it is experiencing a bubble, and over time, as the bubbles become smaller and less volatile, there will be zero incentive to hold bitcoin as an investment.

If you observed the NXT Asset Exchange activity in the past few months, you'd know that forgers have to make a choice each time new assets are issued. Some assets are really promising and made 5-10x ROI for their investors already. If those users were simply forging, they'd get a measly 0.5%/year returns on their stakes. So no, you're wrong, economic activity is actually on the rise. The trading volumes on NXT AE are not huge yet, but adequate for this stage of development. It makes sense to take a risk and buy into profitable assets, AE is a built-in feature of NXT that cannot be shut down by SEC or such.
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January 06, 2015, 07:22:36 PM
 #191

i too thought this was going to be a scamcoin myself, but their development output is proving otherwise. 

its sad to see nxt getting all this negative publicity, while they just keep cranking out stuff non-stop.

they seem to have the monetary system out this week, its going to kill the altcoin market it seems. its nxt's sidechain implementation:


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January 07, 2015, 12:46:44 AM
 #192

i too thought this was going to be a scamcoin myself, but their development output is proving otherwise. 

its sad to see nxt getting all this negative publicity, while they just keep cranking out stuff non-stop.

they seem to have the monetary system out this week, its going to kill the altcoin market it seems. its nxt's sidechain implementation:




I really like this advantage of NxT. With Bitcoin, any one sidechain can fail without affecting the rest of the network, including the main blockchain. In fact, every sidechain could fail and bitcoin would remain completely unaffected. With NxT, if one MS Currency fails then that calls into question the integrity of not just that "sidechain", if you will, but ALL other "sidechains" as well as the main blockchain.

Essentially, with NxT MS Currencies, you get to keep all your eggs in one basket, which my mother always said was the best way to do things. I mean, she did lose $2.2million of our families money by investing in Enron, but I really think she gave great advice!

Go NxT!!!!
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January 07, 2015, 02:08:16 AM
 #193

With NxT, if one MS Currency fails then that calls into question the integrity of not just that "sidechain", if you will, but ALL other "sidechains" as well as the main blockchain.

I don't think so. Is your assumption based on facts or is it only a feeling you have?

Please elaborate.

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January 07, 2015, 02:30:33 AM
 #194

I really like this advantage of NxT. With Bitcoin, any one sidechain can fail without affecting the rest of the network, including the main blockchain. In fact, every sidechain could fail and bitcoin would remain completely unaffected. With NxT, if one MS Currency fails then that calls into question the integrity of not just that "sidechain", if you will, but ALL other "sidechains" as well as the main blockchain.

Essentially, with NxT MS Currencies, you get to keep all your eggs in one basket, which my mother always said was the best way to do things. I mean, she did lose $2.2million of our families money by investing in Enron, but I really think she gave great advice!

Go NxT!!!!

Since your a newbie, I'll give you a break, but you obviously know nothing about Nxt MS or side chains.
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January 07, 2015, 11:00:11 AM
 #195

With NxT, if one MS Currency fails then that calls into question the integrity of not just that "sidechain", if you will, but ALL other "sidechains" as well as the main blockchain.


I have no idea where that comes from. One of two options:  I dont understand your point, or you are totally wrong.  Huh
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January 07, 2015, 11:57:04 AM
 #196

With NxT, if one MS Currency fails then that calls into question the integrity of not just that "sidechain", if you will, but ALL other "sidechains" as well as the main blockchain.


I have no idea where that comes from. One of two options:  I dont understand your point, or you are totally wrong.  Huh

Essentially, they are arguing that centralizing sidechains into one single blockchain is, somehow, a way to "decentralize" sidechains. They are essentially arguing for an oxymoron and are too bogged down with technical details to see the big picture. It's the same problem Ghash.IO had when they were trying to convince this forum that a pool having over 50% of the net hashrate wasn't a bad thing. Lots of technical bullshit, one big fatal flaw that a 3rd grader could easily point out.

Let the usual NxT hand-waving begin!
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January 07, 2015, 12:10:17 PM
 #197

With NxT, if one MS Currency fails then that calls into question the integrity of not just that "sidechain", if you will, but ALL other "sidechains" as well as the main blockchain.


I have no idea where that comes from. One of two options:  I dont understand your point, or you are totally wrong.  Huh

Essentially, they are arguing that centralizing sidechains into one single blockchain is, somehow, a way to "decentralize" sidechains. They are essentially arguing for an oxymoron and are too bogged down with technical details to see the big picture. It's the same problem Ghash.IO had when they were trying to convince this forum that a pool having over 50% of the net hashrate wasn't a bad thing. Lots of technical bullshit, one big fatal flaw that a 3rd grader could easily point out.

Let the usual NxT hand-waving begin!


No hand-waving here, but I want to point to the official documentation:

http://nxt.org/the-ecosystem/monetary-system/

Quote
The idea is similar to the sidechains development taking place in Bitcoin – with the difference that the additional functionality is all contained within the Nxt platform, without the need for an external two-way peg.

and

Quote
Exporting: In the future a whole economy based on a MS currency could be transferred out of the Nxt system to another platform should the necessity arise.

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January 07, 2015, 02:29:22 PM
 #198

Lots of technical bullshit, one big fatal flaw that a 3rd grader could easily point out.


Haha, since you are a technical wizard, please detail the 3rd grader fatal flaw.
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