Notice:: PROJECT X, Come Join the Movement

[barwizi]

Giving up private keys for multiple coins to one untrusted source?  

 

Do you even understand what i said? Noone except you knows your private key, you are not giving them up to anyone.

If I am confused then perhaps you can help.  Are you saying that you don't need to input private keys into a XUC wallet which communicates with to the internet?

How is that different from moving your BTC keys from one wallet to another In that case we should completely abolish the whole idea of private keys from crypto altogether. If you have doubts, how about looking through the source code when it's available, else all this is is FUD.

There is a BIG difference.  BTC has been around a long time and I would be moving keys between trusted wallets.  However, I don't know you, your coin, your software, or your full intentions.  Also, when I ask reasonable questions and you seem to get frustrated, that is a bad sign.

Basically I agree that using private keys for anything other than their original intended software is a bad idea, I mean for one thing it makes this project a lot higher of a target for keyloggers given that they now only need 1 password to access EVERY private key you have imported. It would be better if we could just sign a message using our original wallets and somehow use that as a private key that way everyone is one step removed risk wise and still able to prove ownership.

I think that only applies if you use a wallet other than the one i will provide. The risk is there for those who go outside the prescribed directions, the keys are only imported and no other copy is kept, so if your wallet is kept secure there will be no problems.

As for key loggers if a user opens themselves up to it then there is little we can do to help , it's no different a situation from right now, you could be unfortunate enough to have one on your machine already trying to get at your keys, how is that in anyway related to this project?

This is a crypto currency that will be based off Bitcoin code, securing your wallet is your job , how have you been keeping them safe all this time and how does this project change that?

Again this is just FUD since all the security issues are on the users end not the actual app itself.

As for using your suggested method, i agree that would be great IF it was possible, but we are not worried about ownership in this case. we are concerned about your balance to use to calculate your % stake.

The method you described above still requires you to have a way to redeem the coins attached to your address, which plain and simple is still your private keys.

Wait, so you are saying that after we import using our private keys we/someone can't use dumpprivkey after unlocking the wallet?

1) Your comment assumes that private keys have some other job other than proof of ownership. 
2) You raise the issue of key loggers
3) You claim that this enables having password gives access to all private keys
4) You then suggest a method of proof of ownership that does nothing for Proof of % stake and has no means of redeeming said stake.

And i answer

1) The job of private keys is proof of ownership with the ability to redeem which is what I am acheiving with my method
2) Key loggers have always been around and it is your responsibility to make sure you do not install any on your computer, does BTC have any anti- keylogger code or are you asking me to make one for you?
3)Which password do you mean? if it is the login password, am i supposed to start teaching people to create secure login passwords? If it's the wallet password, am i supposed to teach people how to secure their own respective wallets? NO to both questions, it is your job as a user to secure your wallet. It is like that with every coin.....why are you looking for it to be different here?
4) Your method can prove address ownership...but do tell me HOW will someone be able to redeem? It is called a public key because it is public and available to all. Your coins are yours because you have the private key to prove it.

Funny how a lot of coins have done chain swaps and distributions in a similar manner without any of the issues you are trying to invent.

So long as the code is open source, it can be reviewed at length anytime.

[barwizi]

LOL, this is antimatter syndrome, very strong effects i see.

Lots of fear about the community coming together as one in this currency. Is it such a threat that people resort to FUd to try and kill the idea?

[Magic8Ball]

Only the almost dead coin holders will be interested in this. The bigger coins will just dump their share and carry on with their own chain.

1% premine, with potentially a lot of this remaining unclaimed means he will have a huge share.

[URSAY]

Couldn't users just sign a message proving ownership of their address in a particular coin?  There is no need to expose users private keys.

[barwizi]

Only the almost dead coin holders will be interested in this. The bigger coins will just dump their share and carry on with their own chain.

1% premine, with potentially a lot of this remaining unclaimed means he will have a huge share.

So that is all you take from this...how much i will have?

talk about priorities.

1% premine, with potentially a lot of this remaining unclaimed

So my implementation should be based on hypothetical scenarios? Well then hypothetically, this reaches 1 dollar per coin...will we still have potentially unclaimed majority?

Hypothetically, a new laptop comes out and it does 500TH/s Scrypt mining, what then will Litecoin become the ne world currency?

People are free to participate or not, i am not asking for anyone's money, matter of fact i am offering them value less tokens that will only gain value depending on how they are recieved and traded. So yes, i will be holding on to my good 1% of the total supply, worthless or not.  

There is no IPO ICO or anyone holding a gun to your head, its a simple choice, in or out.

[barwizi]

Couldn't users just sign a message proving ownership of their address in a particular coin?  There is no need to expose users private keys.

If there is a rock solid way of doing it, lets find it and i will use it. I promise to search diligently. But my understanding of how proof of ownership works with BTC based currencies, is that you need private keys in order to claim and control your coins, there is no way of getting around this since it is the backbone of the security which prevents arbitrary claiming of coins by any random individual.

[theprofileth]

Couldn't users just sign a message proving ownership of their address in a particular coin?  There is no need to expose users private keys.

If there is a rock solid way of doing it, lets find it and i will use it. I promise to search diligently. But my understanding of how proof of ownership works with BTC based currencies, is that you need private keys in order to claim and control your coins, there is no way of getting around this since it is the backbone of the security which prevents arbitrary claiming of coins by any random individual.

I suggested this earlier

Basically I agree that using private keys for anything other than their original intended software is a bad idea, I mean for one thing it makes this project a lot higher of a target for keyloggers given that they now only need 1 password to access EVERY private key you have imported. It would be better if we could just sign a message using our original wallets and somehow use that as a private key that way everyone is one step removed risk wise and still able to prove ownership.

Also no you can prove you own an address by signing a message which requires you have the private key to sign but anyone can decode , like this
I own this account
^message
HzKTKv/Ym/lbvi+XE2kCD4EtHcK5btub5utEyIsOXMUS8WPNGSlbJ+5ipvBI1Pq0f2iQLyx/XZ7bJCUtfPvRrgU=
^black coin signature for message
BJXcS2aaN6yyDenZXujmk7puMKRzzmNgTc
^black coin public address

anyone running blackcoin can go in their wallet go to file verify message and enter what i just gave to prove i own that account because it requires a private key to generate that signature

[hellyeahent]

I have ~50 BTC in alts so if i trade it will get some of your coins ? You mean 50/21 000 000 * number of coins ? And I get that for free ??

If yes 1st think I will do will sell it right away even for 0,1 BTC and every one will and ur coin will die

[barwizi]

Couldn't users just sign a message proving ownership of their address in a particular coin?  There is no need to expose users private keys.

If there is a rock solid way of doing it, lets find it and i will use it. I promise to search diligently. But my understanding of how proof of ownership works with BTC based currencies, is that you need private keys in order to claim and control your coins, there is no way of getting around this since it is the backbone of the security which prevents arbitrary claiming of coins by any random individual.

I suggested this earlier

Basically I agree that using private keys for anything other than their original intended software is a bad idea, I mean for one thing it makes this project a lot higher of a target for keyloggers given that they now only need 1 password to access EVERY private key you have imported. It would be better if we could just sign a message using our original wallets and somehow use that as a private key that way everyone is one step removed risk wise and still able to prove ownership.

Also no you can prove you own an address by signing a message which requires you have the private key to sign but anyone can decode , like this
I own this account
^message
HzKTKv/Ym/lbvi+XE2kCD4EtHcK5btub5utEyIsOXMUS8WPNGSlbJ+5ipvBI1Pq0f2iQLyx/XZ7bJCUtfPvRrgU=
^black coin signature for message
BJXcS2aaN6yyDenZXujmk7puMKRzzmNgTc
^black coin public address

anyone running blackcoin can go in their wallet go to file verify message and enter what i just gave to prove i own that account because it requires a private key to generate that signature

You really arent reading.

That proves you own the address so ok, now the chain is active and i planted coins in that address. How are you going to retrieve them?

[theprofileth]

Couldn't users just sign a message proving ownership of their address in a particular coin?  There is no need to expose users private keys.

If there is a rock solid way of doing it, lets find it and i will use it. I promise to search diligently. But my understanding of how proof of ownership works with BTC based currencies, is that you need private keys in order to claim and control your coins, there is no way of getting around this since it is the backbone of the security which prevents arbitrary claiming of coins by any random individual.

I suggested this earlier

Basically I agree that using private keys for anything other than their original intended software is a bad idea, I mean for one thing it makes this project a lot higher of a target for keyloggers given that they now only need 1 password to access EVERY private key you have imported. It would be better if we could just sign a message using our original wallets and somehow use that as a private key that way everyone is one step removed risk wise and still able to prove ownership.

Also no you can prove you own an address by signing a message which requires you have the private key to sign but anyone can decode , like this
I own this account
^message
HzKTKv/Ym/lbvi+XE2kCD4EtHcK5btub5utEyIsOXMUS8WPNGSlbJ+5ipvBI1Pq0f2iQLyx/XZ7bJCUtfPvRrgU=
^black coin signature for message
BJXcS2aaN6yyDenZXujmk7puMKRzzmNgTc
^black coin public address

anyone running blackcoin can go in their wallet go to file verify message and enter what i just gave to prove i own that account because it requires a private key to generate that signature

You really arent reading.

That proves you own the address so ok, now the chain is active and i planted coins in that address. How are you going to retrieve them?

Umm lets take this from the top, I am not suggesting that anything I am saying will work with whatever you have currently planned, HOWEVER, I am suggesting you see if there is a way to implement something that can bridge the gap between your goal and people's concerns.
Also are you setting what addresses have what coins in them manually? Or are you scanning other blockchains?
Also I think I discovered a potential problem, couldn't someone claim their coins by submitting their private key for an account that has coins in it and then move their coins to another address and then claim those same coins again at infinitum due to the fact that each address has a unique private key? Or the reverse happens where someone tries to claim their coins but you already set the values for the network and their coins are locked in some other address(es)?

[barwizi]

Couldn't users just sign a message proving ownership of their address in a particular coin?  There is no need to expose users private keys.

If there is a rock solid way of doing it, lets find it and i will use it. I promise to search diligently. But my understanding of how proof of ownership works with BTC based currencies, is that you need private keys in order to claim and control your coins, there is no way of getting around this since it is the backbone of the security which prevents arbitrary claiming of coins by any random individual.

I suggested this earlier

Basically I agree that using private keys for anything other than their original intended software is a bad idea, I mean for one thing it makes this project a lot higher of a target for keyloggers given that they now only need 1 password to access EVERY private key you have imported. It would be better if we could just sign a message using our original wallets and somehow use that as a private key that way everyone is one step removed risk wise and still able to prove ownership.

Also no you can prove you own an address by signing a message which requires you have the private key to sign but anyone can decode , like this
I own this account
^message
HzKTKv/Ym/lbvi+XE2kCD4EtHcK5btub5utEyIsOXMUS8WPNGSlbJ+5ipvBI1Pq0f2iQLyx/XZ7bJCUtfPvRrgU=
^black coin signature for message
BJXcS2aaN6yyDenZXujmk7puMKRzzmNgTc
^black coin public address

anyone running blackcoin can go in their wallet go to file verify message and enter what i just gave to prove i own that account because it requires a private key to generate that signature

You really arent reading.

That proves you own the address so ok, now the chain is active and i planted coins in that address. How are you going to retrieve them?

Umm lets take this from the top, I am not suggesting that anything I am saying will work with whatever you have currently planned, HOWEVER, I am suggesting you see if there is a way to implement something that can bridge the gap between your goal and people's concerns.
Also are you setting what addresses have what coins in them manually? Or are you scanning other blockchains?
Also I think I discovered a potential problem, couldn't someone claim their coins by submitting their private key for an account that has coins in it and then move their coins to another address and then claim those same coins again at infinitum due to the fact that each address has a unique private key? Or the reverse happens where someone tries to claim their coins but you already set the values for the network and their coins are locked in some other address(es)?

the only way to lay claim to coins on a block chain is to own the private keys, there is no way around that as far as i know, if there was, then all cryptos would fail because your value would not be safe and belong to you alone. I understand what you are trying to do, but this is a question that has been posed so many times. By design the block chain only aloows you to control coins whose private key you have . Perhaps let me explain how it works
 
I have a snapshot of  coin A

adressiamrich1232hggsu has 178 coins

I convert adressiamrich1232hggsu to the version of our new coin, meaning that the private key of adressiamrich1232hggsu can now controlls that amount in the new chain.

The public key/address is like your house address, and the private key is the master key that opens your house. everyone can see your house,  but to get in and move everything to a new house or move furniture around, they need the key to your house, a one of a kind key that only you have.

Also I think I discovered a potential problem, couldn't someone claim their coins by submitting their private key for an account that has coins in it and then move their coins to another address and then claim those same coins again at infinitum due to the fact that each address has a unique private key?

The snapshot records balances at a specific time. at 00:00 you had 10 coins in this address, if i take the snapshot at 00:00, and you move your coins at 00:01 , they will only reflect in the first address. there is no way around this.

Or the reverse happens where someone tries to claim their coins but you already set the values for the network and their coins are locked in some other address(es)?

this is why i give advance notice, two whole weeks for us to hash out your concerns and allow people time to prepare for the snapshot by moving their coins to addresses under their control. f they miss the snapshot they'll have to find ways to get the private keys of the address their coins were in at that time.


A "fair" distribution model has been suggested whereby i do not look at value and just assign equal coins to everyone, ie every chain gets an equal % of the chain. While noble, i think this model is less likely to result in actual valuation of the coin.

[barwizi]

I have ~50 BTC in alts so if i trade it will get some of your coins ? You mean 50/21 000 000 * number of coins ? And I get that for free ??

If yes 1st think I will do will sell it right away even for 0,1 BTC and every one will and ur coin will die

If that happens then so be it. There is no rule that says coins must not die, However, here's a more likely scenario, you dump and go away smirking , then a few weeks or months later, as it gains popularity, the price rises where by your 0.1 BTC, could be equal to 3 BTC. your smirk becomes a grimace and those who bought your cheap coins go to town on what was once yours.

[URSAY]

letstalkbitcoin.com has a system that is currently implemented which allows users to sign a message proving their ownership of an address.  Based on this ownership they can be issued additional tokens.  This requires no exposure of private keys.

[barwizi]

letstalkbitcoin.com has a system that is currently implemented which allows users to sign a message proving their ownership of an address.  Based on this ownership they can be issued additional tokens.  This requires no exposure of private keys.

Let me look at it firts , but while i do that, let me leave you with a question.

How does this method deal with the questions asked by theprofileth? he talks about someone moving coins around.

Just to keep us on track let me elaborate on my method

1) I take a snapshot of balances, this means i have a static record of balances in each respective address
2) I take a price snapshot, meaning i have a price guideline which will not change anymore
3) I map the balances on the chain based on static price , meaning accurate and uniform distribution.
4) User claims their amounts either entirely, or selectively
5) this method is not chain dependent, it applies to anything that uses the bitcoin code and pub/priv key pair

Note, once i have the snapshot, you cant change the % you will get, nor will price manipulation change the % of the chain that particular participant is due.

just reading your method suggests a live system, which is flawed in the worst sense since i could keep moving coins around and sending messages , some coins have no real buys support and a 1 BTC buy could change the price my huge spans.


My method is secure, tried, tested and proven many times over. Please answer my questions while i investigate your idea, it's not good for devs to dismiss things without taking a proper look at them, and i promise, i am doing so with a open mind.  

[barwizi]

ah, i see

it will not work, can you guess why based off my post above or should i explain?

[URSAY]

In your own words...

you really are confused 

People are here educating you while you talk down to them.

I'll remind everyone to check out barwizi's multitude of negative trust.

[mr.coinstrader]

what criteria of integration here ?, some shitcoins mentioned may affect the credibility of the project

[theprofileth]

ah, i see

it will not work, can you guess why based off my post above or should i explain?

Well I have my notions but an explanation would be nice to understand things from your view
also yes I do understand how private keys work and no you haven't answered what i said before about being able to use dumprivkey after unlocking the wallet to get access to all the imported private keys for all addresses

[MisO69]

I don't know if this has been said or not. Tired, long day and don't want to read every sentence.

1) Snapshot is taken.
2) Move your coins to another wallet.
3) Use private keys from original wallet that had your coins during the snapshot.

Problem solved. 

[forzendiablo]

i dont get it but i will watch what happends