[ANN] [ICOKE] Coca-Cola Coin

[madmartyk]

Maybe!!  I know Coke is aware of this, and maybe view it as a joke...  I guess only time will tell.

Maybe they are just explicitly cautious to not end up involved with the "Chilling Effects" list?  (Seems likely, since they are one of the very few big companies not already very well represented there.)

Probably the mouse coin will see some response first.  Walt&Co seem to have no reservations about sending out a C&D at the drop of a hat.

Thus far there is no big money in that. If they aware of it as you say their lawyers are hard at work figuring this "crypto-shit" out, while  puling their hair trying to figure out what the hell is this thing. art-coin.
They must be prepared for the scenario that this will take off. someone there is doing crash curse on bitcoin and the poor thing have to learn all about counterparty too. :-)
 

They don't need to figure out the "Crypto Shit", just calling it Coca-Cola is enough to get their attention

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[HunterMinerCrafter]

I actually did these kind of things for work, working in the movie industry but this I don't consider my art.

Did you enjoy doing the work itself and/or the resulting artifacts and outcomes?  If so then I would consider it, at least in part, "your art."

Can you show us some of your best art that is yours, under what my definition of "yours" would be?  (The ones where you most enjoyed the work or product.)

I'm enjoying the PMs, we agree on much.  We disagree on some critical things (like if we should even consider the "count" of point particles at a point in space) but nothing that creates any real fundamental dispute.  I look forward to seeing more on your take of our shared reality.

We may or may not end up agreeing on our definition of art.  I'm interested to see if you can do this art in a way that we can collectively as a society agree is a work of art.  If not they'll probably be right and "the system" will likely come down on you.

If so, kudos would certainly be in order.

I would agree that it could be done in such a way as you intend, but I don't agree that it has quite been demonstrated as of yet.  You need to stop hinting at it and "do the work of art that it should be" or the plot will be lost before you've actually even begun.

(Interesting IANAL side note, relating to my earlier post.  Under most Berne convention interpretation He/She/They have not demonstrated any IP violation yet.  I suspect they don't intend to, and are smart enough to actually know how not to.  Understanding and abiding by the Berne Convention is not hard.  There are special considerations for things like international trade, but I suspect these considerations will be accounted for.  No-one rational would attempt what is being attempted here without appropriate legal consultation involved.  Personally I don't see any real indication that Nili is irrational.)

Stop testing the waters and go all out, come what may.

Don't forget to continue to have fun with it, or all will be lost.  It won't be your art anymore.

Be happy.

[HunterMinerCrafter]

Thus far there is no big money in that. If they aware of it as you say their lawyers are hard at work figuring this "crypto-shit" out, while  puling their hair trying to figure out what the hell is this thing. art-coin.
They must be prepared for the scenario that this will take off. someone there is doing crash curse on bitcoin and the poor thing have to learn all about counterparty too. :-)

You should talk to the EFF.  I suspect they will offer you help.  Maybe not, I dunno.  If nothing else they seem to be pretty decent folk, worth saying hi to some time.

[HunterMinerCrafter]

you are hired, HMC. :-) (I pay in mouse coins)

As if I don't already have too much work to do!

[HunterMinerCrafter]

They don't need to figure out the "Crypto Shit", just calling it Coca-Cola is enough to get their attention

Get their attention, sure.  That is inevitable and part of the point.  You can't meaningfully declare a work of art unless you have someone's attention, can you?  I suspect they were trying to get a lot of peoples' attention because that is generally what you do with art.  (If you make a painting and then destroy it was it art or just a painting?  Does a creative work need a shared context to be an art?)

Then what?  I'm sure they have a very big team of lawyers, and probably even a backup team, who have reviewed and are reviewing this very discourse.  HI LAWYERS!

IANAL! But:

They would've already looked at all relevant aspects and laws by now and determined that no criminal infringement had been demonstrated yet, or Nili would've already been taken into custody, processed, and given mandate (different from a "C&D") to stop the art.  So this must've been a non-starter, as I would expect.

Next they'd probably look at civil actions, and local jurisdictional concerns.  I suspect they'd determine that under law of Nili's jurisdiction her actions were not yet worth any civil proceedings.  (At least according to the international reviews that I found on the copyright laws of her jurisdiction)  They might send a C&D anyway because hey, why not, but that depends on the company.

Probably they are just monitoring and waiting for something actionable to occur.

(BTW, I take it back, I looked over some more C&D statistics and it seems Coke is not as under-represented as it initially appeared.   I put the odds at roughly even as to which (Coke or Disney) pulls the trigger on it first.)

Any action that does occur will probably be similarly reviewed, but I suspect they'll all be similarly discounted as they'll probably continue to not have anything actionable.  That will be that and life will go on.

Just a hunch.

[madmartyk]

Hunter, you like art!!  We do a charity project every year for Advocate Hope Children's Charities.  Check out what some of our artists have done.

www.islanddreamscards.com

BTW, there will be more added this weekend for the Auction!!

[Yuzu]

Nili is doing this because he's a kid who doesn't understand the law.

I find it interesting that you assume Nili is both young and male.

I'm pretty sure that you're wrong on both guesses.

You're right.  I did assume that.  Most people on this forum assume I'm a young male, too, but I'm not.  I shouldn't have immediately made that assumption, but something about the way she posts screams "youth" to me.

Nonetheless I can assure you, NILI, that a cease and desist letter will be forthcoming.  They will not have to take you to court, because I'm assuming you don't have that level of legal representation. 

[NILIcoin]

I actually did these kind of things for work, working in the movie industry but this I don't consider my art.

Did you enjoy doing the work itself and/or the resulting artifacts and outcomes?  If so then I would consider it, at least in part, "your art."

Can you show us some of your best art that is yours, under what my definition of "yours" would be?  (The ones where you most enjoyed the work or product.)

I'm enjoying the PMs, we agree on much.  We disagree on some critical things (like if we should even consider the "count" of point particles at a point in space) but nothing that creates any real fundamental dispute.  I look forward to seeing more on your take of our shared reality.

We may or may not end up agreeing on our definition of art.  I'm interested to see if you can do this art in a way that we can collectively as a society agree is a work of art.  If not they'll probably be right and "the system" will likely come down on you.

If so, kudos would certainly be in order.

I would agree that it could be done in such a way as you intend, but I don't agree that it has quite been demonstrated as of yet.  You need to stop hinting at it and "do the work of art that it should be" or the plot will be lost before you've actually even begun.

(Interesting IANAL side note, relating to my earlier post.  Under most Berne convention interpretation He/She/They have not demonstrated any IP violation yet.  I suspect they don't intend to, and are smart enough to actually know how not to.  Understanding and abiding by the Berne Convention is not hard.  There are special considerations for things like international trade, but I suspect these considerations will be accounted for.  No-one rational would attempt what is being attempted here without appropriate legal consultation involved.  Personally I don't see any real indication that Nili is irrational.)

Stop testing the waters and go all out, come what may.

Don't forget to continue to have fun with it, or all will be lost.  It won't be your art anymore.

Be happy.

I do appreciate the time and the effort you art taking in understanding and improving this  thing that Im trying to do here.
This project, My coins, as an art concept is very very complex since it is using reality and real life materials as if it is a medium I can mold to my will. I did not intended to make that clear right from the beginning, it would not be easy to get through with it to a well educated art community and I don't expect people here to get is as such. The only importance of keep stating the artistic quality of this work right here on the thread was for legal issues which of course where the first to be brought up. I will post and explain much more about my art as time comes.. at the moment I do not expect people to buy my coins for believing in the quality of my art. In my NILIcoins thread I will very soon post picks ans info about my art.

There is however one point  every mathematician and code writer can understand better then most artists (though they too use that faculty all the time). When a writer tell you that his fictional characters are the ones writing the story it is because just like in math, once you set the  underline rules by which this character is operating, every situation you present to your character, it will act with in character according the first rules you set for it. Unless it is out of character and then you as the writer have to justify that. Which means that you present the reader with a good  proof which explains that. this justification for the out-of-character behaviour is the things that moves the story along and makes it interesting.

The more fundamental your rule setting is the simpler it must get. Most of what we consider to be fundamental is very often set on even more fundamental structure that is set in a different realm. all of our science rules are set on a structure that is based on our social behaviour and rules. As a conceptual artist, im trained at sifting through that mess,.Trained by the means of experienced using my most natural tendencies which are extremely rational though not appear that way in first sight.

One more important note regarding that rule setting...It is how you make something out of nothing, or something else out of something. You set the rules and then you have to put it in motion . I was once titled by a very well educated art critic as " the most self referenced artist he ever encountered" . Self referencing is that motion. you set a rule and then you start using by applying to situations. If with in one peice you use the rules clear and sound it will always make sense since it is the thing that set that reality, not the other way around. whether that reality is a painting, a story or real life.. In real life however ,you need the others consent to that rule. that consent is of the most fundamental rules of all thing which differ reality from fiction.... but on this ...later.

Rational x = Risk y
 

[NILIcoin]

I actually did these kind of things for work, working in the movie industry but this I don't consider my art.

Did you enjoy doing the work itself and/or the resulting artifacts and outcomes?  If so then I would consider it, at least in part, "your art."

Can you show us some of your best art that is yours, under what my definition of "yours" would be?  (The ones where you most enjoyed the work or product.)

I'm enjoying the PMs, we agree on much.  We disagree on some critical things (like if we should even consider the "count" of point particles at a point in space) but nothing that creates any real fundamental dispute.  I look forward to seeing more on your take of our shared reality.

We may or may not end up agreeing on our definition of art.  I'm interested to see if you can do this art in a way that we can collectively as a society agree is a work of art.  If not they'll probably be right and "the system" will likely come down on you.

If so, kudos would certainly be in order.

I would agree that it could be done in such a way as you intend, but I don't agree that it has quite been demonstrated as of yet.  You need to stop hinting at it and "do the work of art that it should be" or the plot will be lost before you've actually even begun.

(Interesting IANAL side note, relating to my earlier post.  Under most Berne convention interpretation He/She/They have not demonstrated any IP violation yet.  I suspect they don't intend to, and are smart enough to actually know how not to.  Understanding and abiding by the Berne Convention is not hard.  There are special considerations for things like international trade, but I suspect these considerations will be accounted for.  No-one rational would attempt what is being attempted here without appropriate legal consultation involved.  Personally I don't see any real indication that Nili is irrational.)

Stop testing the waters and go all out, come what may.

Don't forget to continue to have fun with it, or all will be lost.  It won't be your art anymore.

Be happy.

I do appreciate the time and the effort you art taking in understanding and improving this  thing that Im trying to do here.
This project, My coins, as an art concept is very very complex since it is using reality and real life materials as if it is a medium I can mold to my will. I did not intended to make that clear right from the beginning, it would not be easy to get through with it to a well educated art community and I don't expect people here to get is as such. The only importance of keep stating the artistic quality of this work right here on the thread was for legal issues which of course where the first to be brought up. I will post and explain much more about my art as time comes.. at the moment I do not expect people to buy my coins for believing in the quality of my art. In my NILIcoins thread I will very soon post picks ans info about my art.

There is however one point  every mathematician and code writer can understand better then most artists (though they too use that faculty all the time). When a writer tell you that his fictional characters are the ones writing the story it is because just like in math, once you set the  underline rules by which this character is operating, every situation you present to your character, it will act with in character according the first rules you set for it. Unless it is out of character and then you as the writer have to justify that. Which means that you present the reader with a good  proof which explains that. this justification for the out-of-character behaviour is the things that moves the story along and makes it interesting.

The more fundamental your rule setting is the simpler it must get. Most of what we consider to be fundamental is very often set on even more fundamental structure that is set in a different realm. all of our science rules are set on a structure that is based on our social behaviour and rules. As a conceptual artist, im trained at sifting through that mess,.Trained by the means of experienced using my most natural tendencies which are extremely rational though not appear that way in first sight.

One more important note regarding that rule setting...It is how you make something out of nothing, or something else out of something. You set the rules and then you have to put it in motion . I was once was titled by a very well educated art critic as " the most self referenced artist he ever encountered" . Self referencing is that motion. You set a rule and then you start using by applying to situations. If with in one peice you use the rules clear and sound it will always make sense since it is the thing that set that reality, not the other way around. whether that reality is a painting, a story or real life.. In real life however ,you need the others consent to that rule. that consent is of the most fundamental rules of all thing which differ reality from fiction.... but on this ...later.

Rational x = Risk y
 

*sorry, just posted that before completing (was rushed out and pressed post without checking)

[NILIcoin]

I actually did these kind of things for work, working in the movie industry but this I don't consider my art.

Did you enjoy doing the work itself and/or the resulting artifacts and outcomes?  If so then I would consider it, at least in part, "your art."

Can you show us some of your best art that is yours, under what my definition of "yours" would be?  (The ones where you most enjoyed the work or product.)

I'm enjoying the PMs, we agree on much.  We disagree on some critical things (like if we should even consider the "count" of point particles at a point in space) but nothing that creates any real fundamental dispute.  I look forward to seeing more on your take of our shared reality.

We may or may not end up agreeing on our definition of art.  I'm interested to see if you can do this art in a way that we can collectively as a society agree is a work of art.  If not they'll probably be right and "the system" will likely come down on you.

If so, kudos would certainly be in order.

I would agree that it could be done in such a way as you intend, but I don't agree that it has quite been demonstrated as of yet.  You need to stop hinting at it and "do the work of art that it should be" or the plot will be lost before you've actually even begun.

(Interesting IANAL side note, relating to my earlier post.  Under most Berne convention interpretation He/She/They have not demonstrated any IP violation yet.  I suspect they don't intend to, and are smart enough to actually know how not to.  Understanding and abiding by the Berne Convention is not hard.  There are special considerations for things like international trade, but I suspect these considerations will be accounted for.  No-one rational would attempt what is being attempted here without appropriate legal consultation involved.  Personally I don't see any real indication that Nili is irrational.)

Stop testing the waters and go all out, come what may.

Don't forget to continue to have fun with it, or all will be lost.  It won't be your art anymore.

Be happy.

I do appreciate the time and the effort you art taking in understanding and improving this  thing that Im trying to do here.
This project, My coins, as an art concept is very very complex since it is using reality and real life materials as if it is a medium I can mold to my will. I did not intended to make that clear right from the beginning, it would not be easy to get through with it to a well educated art community and I don't expect people here to get is as such. The only importance of keep stating the artistic quality of this work right here on the thread was for legal issues which of course where the first to be brought up. I will post and explain much more about my art as time comes.. at the moment I do not expect people to buy my coins for believing in the quality of my art. In my NILIcoins thread I will very soon post picks ans info about my art.

There is however one point  every mathematician and code writer can understand better then most artists (though they too use that faculty all the time). When a writer tell you that his fictional characters are the ones writing the story it is because just like in math, once you set the  underline rules by which this character is operating, every situation you present to your character, it will act with in character according the first rules you set for it. Unless it is out of character and then you as the writer have to justify that. Which means that you present the reader with a good  proof which explains that. this justification for the out-of-character behaviour is the things that moves the story along and makes it interesting.

The more fundamental your rule setting is the simpler it must get. Most of what we consider to be fundamental is very often set on even more fundamental structure that is set in a different realm. all of our science rules are set on a structure that is based on our social behaviour and rules. As a conceptual artist, im trained at sifting through that mess,.Trained by the means of experienced using my most natural tendencies which are extremely rational though not appear that way in first sight.

One more important note regarding that rule setting...It is how you make something out of nothing, or something else out of something. You set the rules and then you have to put it in motion . I was once was titled by a very well educated art critic as " the most self referenced artist he ever encountered" . Self referencing is that motion. You set a rule and then you start using by applying to situations. If with in one peice you use the rules clear and sound it will always make sense since it is the thing that set that reality, not the other way around. whether that reality is a painting, a story or real life.. In real life however ,you need the others consent to that rule. that consent is of the most fundamental rules of all thing which differ reality from fiction.... but on this ...later.

Rational x = Risk y
 

*sorry, just posted that before completing (was rushed out and pressed post without checking)

Rational x = Risk y
let me now explain the rational of doing this project from the perspective of the law: No lawyer whatsoever would be willing even to advise me on that. I could never explain it without demonstrating, which is the thing Im doing here.
 I may not be educated enough in all that the law say in every jurisdiction, but since it have to follow some common sense, I can use the information that is out there to  to work around  while stay with in safe limits.

This is where "risk" comes into the equation. Calculated risk if to name it properly, is  once your x of the rational  and y of the risk are proportional to each other inversely, meaning the bigger the x of the rational is the smaller the y of risk can be.. If my rational factor is very large my risk factor can be very small and vise versa.

The thing that I now have to clear with you is: what is the x stand for in that case and what is the y?
X is logic and Y is social code. when the logic of my rational is well established the risk of social infringement is much lower regardless of the law, assuming the law itself is rational and rooted in social consensus.
Since I establish a very strong x factor I can have my Y factor much lower. never the less I had to set for myself the number which both sides of the equation are equal to and that number is also larger than the common one is. That number by the way represent the limit of our function, which in this case is  the function of getting through life safely. (if I just messed up all of your math definitions, that is because I do the same with math as I do with laws and this, I truly enjoy doing :-) )

[NILIcoin]

Nili is doing this because he's a kid who doesn't understand the law.

I find it interesting that you assume Nili is both young and male.

I'm pretty sure that you're wrong on both guesses.

You're right.  I did assume that.  Most people on this forum assume I'm a young male, too, but I'm not.  I shouldn't have immediately made that assumption, but something about the way she posts screams "youth" to me.

Nonetheless I can assure you, NILI, that a cease and desist letter will be forthcoming.  They will not have to take you to court, because I'm assuming you don't have that level of legal representation. 

Ill try to be less of a smart ass which is one thing that made you think im a young male, and which Im usually not, only once called for.

To even compose the letter of  cease and desist, these lawyers have to really understand what is the thing that im doing here better than all of you here. Under the act of fair use which give art a large ligh way, it would be extremely hard to consider my acts as illegal, even If I make a lot of money doing that. They will have to establish the fact that it is not art and not intended as art. Having it be suck as art does not help much though they could have used it to show that it wasn't really my intent to make art,    But considering my record as an artist and the things that I have done as art before, this will not hold in court. I can prove beyond every reasonable doubt that It is in line with  similar things in the past and that this is a very rational step in the development of my art. which indid it is.  I could never come to this point without doing that prior work. ( I will supply these lawyers with all the the material they need in my NILIcoin thread, for now try to find everything about @whatar and @nililerner on twitter, both are deleted accounts but some tweets and pics are  left out there)

Having the art issue so complicated they could resort to coin issue which is the only thing that could infringe on their legal rights and be yet be illegal, like making play money look real and even the slightest confusing to the user. It is illegal to use the dollar for art and it is illegal to reproduce things that looks too much like real dollar. However even  bitcoin is not  declared as currency in most jurisdictions and even if bitoin was such thing, the counterparty Tokens would have to be define as the same thing which is even a bigger challenge)

There might be other things that Im not aware of, but I will learn that once the letter arrive. Then I see if I have what it need to address that. I can assure you all that I will share every piece of information with you here on the thread .

[madmartyk]

In order to avoid any issues, why don't you name your coin artcoin or coinofthearts.  That way you can produce whatever art you want and not have to be looking over your shoulder all the time for a process server.

[HunterMinerCrafter]

This project, My coins, as an art concept is very very complex since it is using reality and real life materials as if it is a medium I can mold to my will.

In my experience most good art carries such a "social complexity."  It is one of the things that brings "depth" to the life of a work.  As I hinted at earlier, art is not art without a reference to some shared context.  A work like what you attempt here naturally carries a "heavy" reference.

I did not intended to make that clear right from the beginning, it would not be easy to get through with it to a well educated art community and I don't expect people here to get is as such.

Clearly!  I worry, though, that this "baby steps" approach will obscure too much so early.  I'd suggest worrying less about the explanations of the work, leave that to the art historians of the future, and focus instead on the presentation itself.

The only importance of keep stating the artistic quality of this work right here on the thread was for legal issues which of course where the first to be brought up. I will post and explain much more about my art as time comes..

You shouldn't worry about what the masses think about legalities, since their opinion on law doesn't change the law.  Just because they misunderstand IP and IP law (not an uncommon trait, as most people are neither lawyers nor worked closely with lawyers on matters of IP use and re-use) doesn't mean that there is any actual impact the legal status of your art.

at the moment I do not expect people to buy my coins for believing in the quality of my art. In my NILIcoins thread I will very soon post picks ans info about my art.

I'm very much looking forward to it.

There is however one point  every mathematician and code writer can understand better then most artists (though they too use that faculty all the time). When a writer tell you that his fictional characters are the ones writing the story it is because just like in math, once you set the  underline rules by which this character is operating, every situation you present to your character, it will act with in character according the first rules you set for it. Unless it is out of character and then you as the writer have to justify that. Which means that you present the reader with a good  proof which explains that. this justification for the out-of-character behaviour is the things that moves the story along and makes it interesting.

Asimov's rules of science fiction spring immediately to mind, but this is a general sentiment expressed by authors through all of history, so you're in good company here.  A story is, of course, an iterative bifurcation of "what could be" with each iteration dependent on the branching of each prior iteration.  This is one of those things from our PMs that I "breezed past because I consider it so very fundamental that it almost goes without saying."

Stop worrying and learn to love the bomb.  Don't let the bifurcation of your story get "held up" on the first few iterations of the plot development simply because a few people here are already failing in keeping up with the plot.  Let the story unfold, and the true critics (the ones who matter anyway) will be able to follow the story-line just fine.  In the end, history will have little difficulty in understanding the realization of your justification.

This is assuming that you remain justified, of course.  This is critical, your story must be molded within the legal constraints.  I don't think this will be so "nearly impossible" as these few critics (who have clearly lost the plot already?) might think.  I don't even think it will be that hard.  The Berne Convention really is quite cut-and-dry, and easy to follow.

Again, though, you are not *doing* it just yet.  You've introduced the premise of your plot, but we're still all waiting to see the story, itself, unfold.  I can understand the hesitation in the face of the inevitable criticism and misunderstandings, but "the debate" about your story's justification is futile from both sides until the story is actually begun to be told!  (This is precisely why you almost certainly won't see a C&D quite yet.  Those teams of lawyers, necessarily being smart folk to work for such prominent companies, certainly understand that they can't hope to argue the justification of the story before the story really begins this path through the bifurcation!)

I'm rooting for you and I'm sure that I'm not alone despite being, so far, the only one to root for you publicly.

I really want to see your work of art be a work of art.  If (when) it is, it should shape up to be an awesome one. 

[HunterMinerCrafter]

let me now explain the rational of doing this project from the perspective of the law: No lawyer whatsoever would be willing even to advise me on that. I could never explain it without demonstrating, which is the thing Im doing here.
 I may not be educated enough in all that the law say in every jurisdiction, but since it have to follow some common sense, I can use the information that is out there to  to work around  while stay with in safe limits.

SRSLY the EFF loves this sort of stuff, and have people who are well qualified to cover even the differing jurisdictional concerns.  You should definitely take this to them.  If nothing else they will offer some general guidance.  I suspect that they will take an interest beyond just that, because they tend to be very active with anything that "asks the new questions" in our virtual frontiers.

Again, even if they choose not to get involved they are some very fun people and I suspect that you will enjoy the discussion of it with them.

[NILIcoin]

let me now explain the rational of doing this project from the perspective of the law: No lawyer whatsoever would be willing even to advise me on that. I could never explain it without demonstrating, which is the thing Im doing here.
 I may not be educated enough in all that the law say in every jurisdiction, but since it have to follow some common sense, I can use the information that is out there to  to work around  while stay with in safe limits.

SRSLY the EFF loves this sort of stuff, and have people who are well qualified to cover even the differing jurisdictional concerns.  You should definitely take this to them.  If nothing else they will offer some general guidance.  I suspect that they will take an interest beyond just that, because they tend to be very active with anything that "asks the new questions" in our virtual frontiers.

Again, even if they choose not to get involved they are some very fun people and I suspect that you will enjoy the discussion of it with them.

As I check my options I would like the Coke lawyers check this option on behalf of their clients. While doing this though, please keep in mind that it is only a representation for the real thing. an illustration if you wish. To make it legal and economic sound will require much more work . So as I work up my applied texture  you can concentrate on making the world a better place to us all
.

1 coupon unit = 1 product unit
price of 1 coupon unit < price of 1 product unit in the market

The coupon units has no expiration date (unlike most coupons)
The coupon units will always be redeemable by issuer (or risk management agent) for the monetary value that it was issued at.

The monetary benefits of the model:

1. coin value stability - A value that range between the market price of the product unit ,and the issue price of the coupon unit.
    The smaller the gap is, the less fluctuations of value are possible
2. Ease of rating the real value and risks of the coin - The balance of,  products in production, damned for this product and the total value of     
    other assets can be evaluated to determine the real value of the coin at any given moment

* There are more complex benefits once the coin enter a credit pool and is lent out on behalf of the borrower potential production power.  I will issue these points in another document which I will post soon

[ancientcoins]

is this really a coin we can take seriously

[mumak]

Nili's idea is here about 2 months and he still not in jail...Where are corporate lawyers?!?

[madmartyk]

Nili's idea is here about 2 months and he still not in jail...Where are corporate lawyers?!?

She's!!!  They are still laughing.

[NILIcoin]

This project, My coins, as an art concept is very very complex since it is using reality and real life materials as if it is a medium I can mold to my will.

In my experience most good art carries such a "social complexity."  It is one of the things that brings "depth" to the life of a work.  As I hinted at earlier, art is not art without a reference to some shared context.  A work like what you attempt here naturally carries a "heavy" reference.

I did not intended to make that clear right from the beginning, it would not be easy to get through with it to a well educated art community and I don't expect people here to get is as such.

Clearly!  I worry, though, that this "baby steps" approach will obscure too much so early.  I'd suggest worrying less about the explanations of the work, leave that to the art historians of the future, and focus instead on the presentation itself.

The only importance of keep stating the artistic quality of this work right here on the thread was for legal issues which of course where the first to be brought up. I will post and explain much more about my art as time comes..

You shouldn't worry about what the masses think about legalities, since their opinion on law doesn't change the law.  Just because they misunderstand IP and IP law (not an uncommon trait, as most people are neither lawyers nor worked closely with lawyers on matters of IP use and re-use) doesn't mean that there is any actual impact the legal status of your art.

at the moment I do not expect people to buy my coins for believing in the quality of my art. In my NILIcoins thread I will very soon post picks ans info about my art.

I'm very much looking forward to it.

There is however one point  every mathematician and code writer can understand better then most artists (though they too use that faculty all the time). When a writer tell you that his fictional characters are the ones writing the story it is because just like in math, once you set the  underline rules by which this character is operating, every situation you present to your character, it will act with in character according the first rules you set for it. Unless it is out of character and then you as the writer have to justify that. Which means that you present the reader with a good  proof which explains that. this justification for the out-of-character behaviour is the things that moves the story along and makes it interesting.

Asimov's rules of science fiction spring immediately to mind, but this is a general sentiment expressed by authors through all of history, so you're in good company here.  A story is, of course, an iterative bifurcation of "what could be" with each iteration dependent on the branching of each prior iteration.  This is one of those things from our PMs that I "breezed past because I consider it so very fundamental that it almost goes without saying."

Stop worrying and learn to love the bomb.  Don't let the bifurcation of your story get "held up" on the first few iterations of the plot development simply because a few people here are already failing in keeping up with the plot.  Let the story unfold, and the true critics (the ones who matter anyway) will be able to follow the story-line just fine.  In the end, history will have little difficulty in understanding the realization of your justification.

This is assuming that you remain justified, of course.  This is critical, your story must be molded within the legal constraints.  I don't think this will be so "nearly impossible" as these few critics (who have clearly lost the plot already?) might think.  I don't even think it will be that hard.  The Berne Convention really is quite cut-and-dry, and easy to follow.

Again, though, you are not *doing* it just yet.  You've introduced the premise of your plot, but we're still all waiting to see the story, itself, unfold.  I can understand the hesitation in the face of the inevitable criticism and misunderstandings, but "the debate" about your story's justification is futile from both sides until the story is actually begun to be told!  (This is precisely why you almost certainly won't see a C&D quite yet.  Those teams of lawyers, necessarily being smart folk to work for such prominent companies, certainly understand that they can't hope to argue the justification of the story before the story really begins this path through the bifurcation!)

I'm rooting for you and I'm sure that I'm not alone despite being, so far, the only one to root for you publicly.

I really want to see your work of art be a work of art.  If (when) it is, it should shape up to be an awesome one.  

This one is for you HMC some remnants of my twitter project in 2009, printed copies which I saved tto documents  a few tweets projects,




And Three old  paintings of the child I once was







And this  one, a detail of an embroidered statement 2002



And last one stay on topic, my first money art project 2008. In a brooklyn open studios event I was making these ribbons  and selling each for $2 . On the wall this  statement was written

[NILIcoin]

And last one stay on topic, my first money art project 2008. In a brooklyn open studios event I was making these ribbons  and selling each for $2 . On the wall this  statement was written

EPIC!

But that was only the beginning. When the summer of 2011 rolled in I took off  back to NYC for yet another epic movie production (which I cant even remember which)  A few week before returning to Israel (Yes im a native Israeli, My family is here and I oppose the occupation which is maintained by big money interest and shrunken hurts) the occupy movement notation  was seeded in a central Tel-Aviv Avenue named after Rothchild and spread across the entire country in a matter of weeks. By the time I have landed in Israel the big 1,000,000 demonstration was well on its way. The day I set my tent in the Avenu was the day of that demonstration which marked the beginning of the end of that last epic effort of the people to claim their freedom . The occupied movement that took off around the globe brought excitement and hope which was not present since the days of the flowers kids of the 60. But this grate moment of triumph was to be washed out by mere hosed of water and an army of policemen operating under the orders of the democracy. The Occupied movement was defeated using laws that created to regulate the order in public spaces and the hygiene of the city.
During that next year I have created my next work which featured everything that I came to realize about money and the state of our social union. In one of the still ongoing struggles public events I have set up a both in which I demonstrated the way fiat money should be created. I named this currency LOVE-NOTE



These notes where mimicking the things I grow to realize about the organisation of life itself. Love being nature's credit note, is secured by DNA signature to assure the  common interest of both parties. The thing that I came to realize about our monetary system, is that we are missing the individual signature of each member of a credit union of our states, to validate each note the state create. We have the central authority which was elected in a democratic process, but that authority of central banks can issue the credit on behalf of all of the union participant and then decide who will enjoy that new created line of credit while charging interest from all members which on behalf of their future work these notes was created for using it .

So as the central banker of my LOVE-NOTES I had to have each individual signing the notes created in their name. I literally had them draw it according to  my specifications and then sign with a few strands of hair.The note was then numbered and dated and signed by me as the central banker. A leger that linked between each note number and the members, who made  the note, was created and signed.