MtGox Collapsing (and taking bitcoin down with them?)

[shad0wbitz]

I am not trying to spread fudge here or troll in any shape way or form. I am simply really concerned with the states of affairs at MtGox, and the inability of the company to be honest with their customers.

Clearly MtGox is having some very serious liquidity issues. Most likely this stems from all the funds they have gotten frozen around the world (read: hundreds of thousands at Technocash alone, their bank in Hong Kong frozen, the French bank, etc).

The signs are all out there for you to see and make your own conclusions.

1) Dwolla withdrawals are being delayed for weeks:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=79902.20

2) Wire transfers take an avergage of three or four weeks. MtGox is finding ways to stall wires citing AML reasons left and right. Wires seem to get magically processed as soon as the recipient posts on this forum. Goat had some ficticious situation manufactured in order to delay a rather big wire:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=79043.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=78596.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=77213.0

3) Jeremy at spendcoins had to suspend wires and ampex withdrawals due to "overwhelming demand" since he has to pick the slack of MtGox.

4) I believe Coinabul delays in shipping are related to the fact that they are not getting paid timely by MtGox.

5) Bitcoinica is having issues processing wires, particularly large ones due to the fact that MtGox owes them a "significant amount" as per their own words.

6) Here is the icing on the cake though: OkPay uses MtGox to cash out bitcoins deposited by users into their system. As of a few days ago, they temporarily suspended bitcoin deposits, which are now in limbo:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=77065.0

I think it is time for MtGox to come forward, and be clear and transparent about their financial status, and stop blaming "US tax day" or the "Golden Shower week" when clearly there is a new excuse each and every week.

My main concern is that if MtGox collapses, the price of bitcoin will collapse with them.

I know I am going to get attacked for this post, and that is fine. Just give it time. Those who do not want to see, will not.

Shad0w

[rjk]

"Golden Shower week"

lol

[bitlane]

2) Wire transfers take an avergage of three or four weeks. MtGox is finding ways to stall wires citing AML reasons left and right. Wires seem to get magically processed as soon as the recipient posts on this forum. Goat had some ficticious situation manufactured in order to delay a rather big wire:

Do the math.
Do you have any idea how much Interest they are able to make from your money if they delay a wire transfer ?
It's not like MtGox deal in small amounts of fiat.

Users MUST demand more from them.

Competition for them is also a MUST, or they will simply continue to keep the Bitcoin Community in their back pocket.

Operating virtually unopposed is a recipe for clusterfuckery at best and YOU SUFFER, not them.

[bitlane]

I should also add.....

There are people crying on this forum almost DAILY in regards to 'Boycott DeepBit....stop the chance of a 51% attack....blah...cry...whine...'

How about BOYCOTT MT.GOX - SAY NO TO A 99% MONOPOLY AND SHIT SERVICE.

It's time for people to see the BIG picture.

[MarketNeutral]

I wholeheartedly agree that competition is a must, which is why I rarely use MtGox.

If possible, I try not to use any exchanges.

But in all fairness, I recently wired some money to MtGox and funds appeared in my account within a few hours. Much faster than usual.

On the other hand, I wouldn't be surprised if Gox did a paypal-style interest float.

[ccliu]

I can fill coinabuls place to a degree, I ship next day as long as I have stock on hand

[Andrew Bitcoiner]

This could be but the Japan banking holiday for a week certainly was an issue.

[MagicalTux]

We are working on improving the situation with liquidity, and have currently some issues because of the volume of illegal activity that took place in the past year.

Things are moving forward and I expect to see things back to normal by June.

[JusticeForYou]

While at first your Thread title seemed like it was going to be more FUD, your main content seemed reasoned and thought out.

There is a bottleneck occurring. And a weakness is coming to light.

Open Source Exchange ?  Perhaps will help. But personally I think to use it as originally intended. P2P, B2B, B2C, etc... and everyone mines easily if one chooses to do so.

Oh, don't forget the #bitcoin-otc and the WoT as parallel methods of funding.

btcpak.com for U.S. could relieve some of the bottle neck.


Power tends to group around a few for many reasons usually for control and/or financial reasons. This is normal but if you make the bar for entry very easy for everyone by handing out freebies (Exchange Software for the masses) then the good will push out the bad.

Edit: MT has/and is serving a vital role under extreme pressure from all sides. So, my comment was not intended to disparage the exchange.

[shad0wbitz]

2) Wire transfers take an avergage of three or four weeks. MtGox is finding ways to stall wires citing AML reasons left and right. Wires seem to get magically processed as soon as the recipient posts on this forum. Goat had some ficticious situation manufactured in order to delay a rather big wire:

Do the math.
Do you have any idea how much Interest they are able to make from your money if they delay a wire transfer ?
It's not like MtGox deal in small amounts of fiat.

Users MUST demand more from them.

Competition for them is also a MUST, or they will simply continue to keep the Bitcoin Community in their back pocket.

Operating virtually unopposed is a recipe for clusterfuckery at best and YOU SUFFER, not them.

+1

[Tomatocage]

WAT? MtGox collapse and forces people to use Bitcoin as an actual currency?!?  PERISH THE THOUGHT!

[buryfarmer]

MTGOX MUST ANSWER THESE QUESTIONS STRAIGHT.

DO YOU EVER ISSUE MORE MTGOX BTC REDEEMABLE CODE THAN YOU HAVE ACTUAL BITCOINS?

AND

DO YOU EVER ISSUE MORE MTGOX USD REDEEMABLE CODE THAN YOU HAVE ACTUAL USD?

[JusticeForYou]

MTGOX MUST ANSWER THESE QUESTIONS STRAIGHT.

DO YOU EVER ISSUE MORE MTGOX BTC REDEEMABLE CODE THAN YOU HAVE ACTUAL BITCOINS?

AND

DO YOU EVER ISSUE MORE MTGOX USD REDEEMABLE CODE THAN YOU HAVE ACTUAL USD?

What's wrong with a little reserve banking? Everyone is doing it.


AND STOP YELLING!!!!

[SgtSpike]

I share the OP's concerns.  All of my dwolla withdrawals have been nearly instantaneous in the past (I even posted on that thread that my last withdrawal had gone through quickly), but two recent withdrawals have taken 6 days (just received) and 3 days (so far) to get the funds in my dwolla account, respectively.

I'm going to take my business to Intersango until they get this figured out.  It makes me too nervous...

[casascius]

My main concern is that if MtGox collapses, the price of bitcoin will collapse with them.

Are BTC withdrawals delayed?  If the smartest course of action is to take all your Gox money and run with BTC while you can, because you know you can get your hands on it in the shortest possible time, we could see the price of Bitcoin take an artificially induced climb.

P.S. Anyone got $10k in MtGoxUSD codes they want to sell at a discount and receive a bankwire today for?

[DeathAndTaxes]

Crap wish I had done my research.

After my last Dwolla transfer took 7 days I decided to pay more for an international wire.  I can't believe they are delayed weeks and MtGox doesn't even have the decently to put something on the transfer page.

"Attention users: wires are delayed 14-21 days, Dwolla transfers are delayed 5-7 days".  How hard would that be?

[JusticeForYou]

Hey,

Before the Bank Run starts, someone let me know.

Casascius, nice service.

Edit: How much of a discount?

[SgtSpike]

Lol, it seems we need to make a thread titled ["WAIT LIST"] Mt. Gox Funds Sent Date / Received Date. 

[doldgigger]

I am not trying to spread fudge here or troll in any shape way or form. I am simply really concerned with the states of affairs at MtGox, and the inability of the company to be honest with their customers.

Clearly MtGox is having some very serious liquidity issues. Most likely this stems from all the funds they have gotten frozen around the world (read: hundreds of thousands at Technocash alone, their bank in Hong Kong frozen, the French bank, etc).

Do you also have references for these bank account freezing issues?

Of course it's sad that all these excuses were necessary before, but I think it's an important first step to re-establish a good reputation that they admit the liquidity issues now.

At this point, I think it will important to also approach a generally more customer-centric way of doing business if they wish to stay on the market. Because, if they keep their policy of making the customer the last one to inform about what's going on, we will not know how the liquidity issues were solved when they are. Did it suffice to get the accounts unfrozen? Did they also sell their sports cars? Or is the money coming from being a real-time data warehouse for the DEA and other dubious federal data consumers?

I think it is time for MtGox to come forward, and be clear and transparent about their financial status, and stop blaming "US tax day" or the "Golden Shower week" when clearly there is a new excuse each and every week.

My main concern is that if MtGox collapses, the price of bitcoin will collapse with them.

As written above, I think transparency is needed for more than the financial status. Otherwise, the reputation can hardly be restored. Customers need to see that their concerns are now priority issues for MtGox. For example, how serious is a company about allowing pseudonymous use of their service when they state that they'll require identifying documents when someone uses Tor?? And why doesn't their data privacy statement make it clear that customer data will only be disclosed to third parties upon absolute legal necessity?

I hope they'll get their act together and learn from the current crisis. All the experience gathered so far should not be lost after all.

But even if not: It's not the exchanges which dictate the exchange rates. It's the supply and the demand. If the price really changes when taking MtGox out of the equation, it will most likely be due to differences in the deposit and withdrawal methods available (which have an effect on the currency supply...). Should this hurt someone, some exchange will fill the gap...

[Raoul Duke]

Just one question: Why would Bitcoin go down with MtGox?

I'm into Bitcoin for more than 1 year and besides opening an account in MtGox I never really used them for anything else... And I bet a lot more people are like me and don't use exchanges.