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Author Topic: SkepsiDyne Integrated Node - The Bitcoin Mining Company  (Read 92833 times)
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May 14, 2011, 03:13:14 PM
 #21

I deleted it because I figured my mistake, sorry. Tongue

My point is, if you would like me to invest Bitcoins, you have to make sure that I get more Bitcoins out of it. The appreciation in terms of purchasing power is useless here, as I would be better off if I just hoarded. It would help reinvesting in mining hardware though, increasing Bitcoin generation … I guess I’ll just wait until I see some initial results before purchasing shares.

"Bitcoin had been transformed from an anarachistic challenge to the financial status quo, to the crypto spawn of Satan, fuelled by cut-throat greed and delusions of avarice." - MatTheCat
"these people don't seem to want to stop till Bitcoin is completely destroyed and left like an old cum rag in the corner of the room." - ShroomsKit
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May 14, 2011, 05:11:31 PM
 #22

With the current 150 BTC people already bought shares for, you can buy at the current rate of ~8.75USD/BTC already nearly 2 rigs to get started before the difficulty skyrockets even more - the 3750 BTC you want to raise are even enough for 46 rigs already (over 50% more than planned).

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May 14, 2011, 05:36:23 PM
 #23

With the current 150 BTC people already bought shares for, you can buy at the current rate of ~8.75USD/BTC already nearly 2 rigs to get started before the difficulty skyrockets even more - the 3750 BTC you want to raise are even enough for 46 rigs already (over 50% more than planned).

Where did you get the 150 BTC from?
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May 14, 2011, 05:43:10 PM
 #24

For those interested: so far 199 shares have been sold!
199 * 0,75... Wink

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May 14, 2011, 08:51:34 PM
 #25

I would also recommend signing at least one post to this forum so that we can be sure you are the same person that is issuing the SIN stock.

I'm currently posting from my laptop, and my keys are on my desktop, so I will do this as soon as I get access to it again Smiley

1. Your powerpoint presentation was good, but I would also like to see a complete business plan posted.  If nothing else, to prove that you are serious about putting the time into this project.
Off the top of my head, some other information I would like to know:
2. More details on the rigs you plan to buy
3. Cost estimates on support equipment: UPS, racks, cabling, monitors, kvms, etc.
4. Projections on profits based on changes to the exchange rate and difficulty rate.
5. At what USD/BTC rate does it stop being profitable?
6. At what difficulty rate?
7. You mention increasing capacity to compensate for difficulty increases.  How will you determine the required capacity increases?  Will it be a static 15% of revenue?  Will you attempt to keep a constant BTC generated per day?
8. Any pictures you are willing to provide of the physical space where the cluster will reside.
9. How exposed is the space, do you anticipate any issues with humidity or dust?
10. Do you own the location, or rent?
11. How do you plan on securing the location?  Who else will have access to it?
12. Will you be paying yourself a salary for managing the cluster?
13. Will you pay yourself rent for the location?
14. Will the cluster be sharing power with your residence?  If so, how do you plan on determining the power usage of the cluster vs personal consumption?
15. When do you plan on paying dividends?  Monthly, quarterly?
16. Will you be providing financial reports?  When, and what will they contain?

1. I'll see what I can do about putting together a more thorough plan together.
2. The rigs I will be purchasing will be bare minimum rigs with two 5850's in each.  I will be bargaining for bulk prices (not accounted for in estimate price in presentation) and they will be housed in server rack cases.
3. Shipping was factored in with the price of each rig, and I have literally thousands of feet of network cables, plenty of racks, and plenty of switches, as well as a kvms and adequate connections, etc.  I will be using a lot of capital that I already own, which will not be charged to the business.
4. I really can't claim to be an expert at predicting the changes in difficulty.  However, I have noticed that as the difficulty rises, so does the exchange rate of BTC (in general) and this means that even if less BTC is being generated, more USD can be bought with them, which means that the business will still be able to continue expansion, even in the event of less BTC being generated.
5. I hesitate to speculate on this, because if the price becomes too low, miners will drop out, difficulty will fall, and the business will be generating more BTC (which will obviously be worth less than before, but more will be produced to counter this).
6. Once again, I hesitate to speculate.  The only time that I believe it will become unprofitable to mine at this scale will be in the event that Bitcoin collapses or is somehow shut down, or if people lose confidence and stop using it.  Looking at the history of difficulty, network power, and price, the market seems to even itself out.
7. The 15% growth problem was pointed out earlier in this post or another (I have made several in different parts of the forums so I sometimes forget where certain information was discussed) but that number was pulled off the top of my head.  Actual growth will probably be closer to 45-60%, depending on difficulty hikes and network power.  The number of Bitcoins mined will not be maintained (it will inevitably drop), but the actual value of the amount mined will increase.
8. I will try to get some pictures up of the space soon!
9. The space will be enclosed and free from dust.  The location is very dry and has air conditioning capabilities in the case of humidity problems (hasn't been an issue in the past, and I don't foresee it being an issue in the future.)
10. I own the location.
11. Firstly, I will make sure that no one knows there is anything valuable in the building (which I think is the biggest security hazard no matter what your situation is!)  Secondly, the building is always locked and monitored.  I will be the only one who has access to it, and also the only one who knows its contents.
12. I have not decided on this as of now.  I have considered it for setting up the cluster, but as far as managing I do not think that I will be paying myself for that (if I later deem that it is necessary, I will put it past shareholders first and try to estimate how much it will cost.)
13. The business will not be paying for renting the space, the space is empty at the moment and I see no need to burden the business with such an expense (I really want this to work, which is why I'm cheating in a few spots to give it the best start I can Wink)
14. The cluster will not be located in my home, and all power consumed will be by the cluster itself (and lighting while I am working on it)
15. I'm not really sure, quarterly would be the absolute maximum, and I would really like to hear suggestions from investors concerning this issue.  I'm just not sure, but I would think monthly, mostly so electricity can be paid and deducted from profits.
16. I will be providing financial reports monthly.  The reports will contain purchases, expenses, revenue, some projections, and a small state of the business address.

I hope I answered your questions fully, some of this is a bit touch and go, but I feel like things are starting to flesh out.  I appreciate your interest, these kinds of questions help others as well as you!

I am very happy to announce that more than 400 shares have been sold, and the business is on the fast track to getting started!  Thanks again to all those who have shown support!

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May 15, 2011, 03:27:17 AM
 #26

Here's my problem with what I'm reading.  Please correct me if I'm wrong, I didn't watch the whole video.

But right now only 4% of the payout goes to the investors, and 96% goes to you, due to the huge IPO.  I'd be much more interested in investing if your dividends matched the amount sold in the IPO.  With 405 Shares sold, you only collect 405 shares worth of dividends.  As more shares get sold, you get to match that, so you always get half.  Eventually, the IPO is sold out, and you still get half.

But now it feels to me like you're cheating a bit on the payout.  Not actual cheating, but you get a huge reward vs risk compared to the people putting money into the venture.  Yes I know the money doesn't go into your pocket, but it seems like you're paying off your paper debt too easily.
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May 15, 2011, 06:27:36 AM
 #27

Being anonymous isn't exactly a problem in itself as long as the persona he's using has a reputation attached to it.

how do i get short on these shares?
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May 15, 2011, 11:35:54 AM
 #28

Quote
In a standard business that is worth at least $50/hour.

Researcher/designer for GPU cluster design and operation for $50/hr .... can you reference that?  Contract or salary, if salaried add in extras to the package.

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May 15, 2011, 12:14:50 PM
 #29

Since Tawsix is crossposting his offer everywhere and scammers are the big issue for open, trust based developments here is a link to my posting in the other forum why i am 99% sure this is a scam.
http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=8208.msg122096#msg122096

proud 5.x gh/s miner. tips welcome at 1A132BPnYMrgYdDaRyLpRrLQU4aG1WLRtd
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May 15, 2011, 12:57:15 PM
 #30

Since Tawsix is crossposting his offer everywhere and scammers are the big issue for open, trust based developments here is a link to my posting in the other forum why i am 99% sure this is a scam.
http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=8208.msg122096#msg122096

Wouldn't he make much more actually building the mining rig than scamming?

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May 15, 2011, 01:13:23 PM
 #31

Since Tawsix is crossposting his offer everywhere and scammers are the big issue for open, trust based developments here is a link to my posting in the other forum why i am 99% sure this is a scam.
http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=8208.msg122096#msg122096

Wouldn't he make much more actually building the mining rig than scamming?

Exactly my thought, therefore my investment in SIN. If he's a scammer, well then some of my money goes down the drain.
On the other hand, if he's not, I'll get a recurring income every month.

I'd love to see more of these projects rather than mining at home (starting to get tired of the noise from my mining machine) or buying expensive capacity/month.

If there was a way to keep anonymity and still be able to create projects like this without the risk of being scammed, it would be perfect.
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May 15, 2011, 02:27:24 PM
 #32


If there was a way to keep anonymity and still be able to create projects like this without the risk of being scammed, it would be perfect.

We're(BitcoinGlobal) working on that.

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May 15, 2011, 02:28:43 PM
 #33

I'd love to see such a project from a more reputable community member.

Handing out shares for mining rigs is actually a great way to rent mining capacity imho and would also be much better for "micropayment" and short term contracts than the current usual 1000+USD contracts.

Promise to build a rig and keep it operational, create shares for that, keep 5-10% of the shares (or whatever you calculate and what is competitive amongst the market) to keep your business running and cover electricity costs etc. and sell the rest of the shares to investors while paying the dividend daily. 50% overhead and a full business is a bit too much imho... These SIN shares would rather be used for speculation than for actual dividend income, as the expected income is far too low compared to for example Vladimir if he would start handing out shares for one rig as an experiment.

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May 15, 2011, 02:31:20 PM
 #34

On a related note, do have a look at the terms on our site http://glbse.com/terms.html

Sukrim, that's a great idea for an asset contract, would work great on the exchange.

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May 15, 2011, 02:36:00 PM
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If there was a way to keep anonymity and still be able to create projects like this without the risk of being scammed, it would be perfect.

We're(BitcoinGlobal) working on that.

Great stuff Smiley
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May 15, 2011, 02:42:02 PM
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Sukrim, that's a great idea for an asset contract, would work great on the exchange.
Yeah, I hope someone picks that up...

Investing in a whole business and having theoretical voting rights there etc. is not interesting anyways for me at least, if I'm just interested in a mini-mining contract (which in the end of the day the SIN stocks are). I don't even want to go through hassles on voting on motions or waiting 30 days for the next dividend. My few daily millibitcents for my .50 BTC share would be much cooler - and also the shares would be far more attractive to others and might shoot up in price very quickly.

A clever miner would even first hand out just a few % of shares of an existing rig, wait until they are sold out and under great demand and then slowly release the rest of the shares until the desired grade of distribution netting (now in the startup days) probably ENORMOUS profits! Smiley

Edit:
I'm even thinking of doing that myself, however my ~280MH/s machine is a bit too weak for that and operating a proper 24/7 rig is currently not in my focus (as it would need to be silent --> watercooled which drives prices up).

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May 15, 2011, 02:50:10 PM
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Sukrim, that's a great idea for an asset contract, would work great on the exchange.
Yeah, I hope someone picks that up...

Investing in a whole business and having theoretical voting rights there etc. is not interesting anyways for me at least, if I'm just interested in a mini-mining contract (which in the end of the day the SIN stocks are). I don't even want to go through hassles on voting on motions or waiting 30 days for the next dividend. My few daily millibitcents for my .50 BTC share would be much cooler - and also the shares would be far more attractive to others and might shoot up in price very quickly.

A clever miner would even first hand out just a few % of shares of an existing rig, wait until they are sold out and under great demand and then slowly release the rest of the shares until the desired grade of distribution netting (now in the startup days) probably ENORMOUS profits! Smiley

Edit:
I'm even thinking of doing that myself, however my ~280MH/s machine is a bit too weak for that and operating a proper 24/7 rig is currently not in my focus (as it would need to be silent --> watercooled which drives prices up).

+1

I wan't to be able to manage my bitcoins in a similar way of what I'm doing with my non-virtual currency.
Since 7 years back, I've been feeding my money making machine and making a very good return from it, the basic idea is to put all my money to work.
With you suggestion this makes this possible. Smiley
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May 15, 2011, 03:01:34 PM
 #38

Wouldn't he make much more actually building the mining rig than scamming?

Of course, i never ever disputed that he is making his cut either way. Food for thought: wouldnt he make much more actually building the rig and scamming at the same time?
Also, with 150BTC already invested as someone in the other thread pointed out, one has to ask where the first two rigs are. After all shareholders are already now losing out, after all two 500$ rigs are at least 10BTC per day, so with each day that passes with these rigs not running shareholders lose their cut of say 60$ per day due to a bad management of the entrusted investments . This of course assuming that the two rigs are not already up. Given the way communication is done i am certain we would have seen the first SEE IT WORKS PR postings of the rigs if any existed, hence i assume its safe to say they are not up yet.

My point was NEVER that it was a bad idea for the original poster, my point is the risk of community damage. There are already dozens of issues where people lost BTC, its detremential to the community as such. "Investment Schemes" that offer negligible benefit with great risk to everyone except the person who collects the coin are always highly suspicious, lets not forget that BTC is at a point where its a business about hard $. In such an environment, you ought to expect scrutiny when offering business services. Given that the OP has done certain effort to ensure he is using blank accounts for everything but has not even paid enough scrunity to his numbers that his simple calculations add up, all red flags go off unless you are guillible.

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May 15, 2011, 07:30:00 PM
 #39

But now it feels to me like you're cheating a bit on the payout.  Not actual cheating, but you get a huge reward vs risk compared to the people putting money into the venture.  Yes I know the money doesn't go into your pocket, but it seems like you're paying off your paper debt too easily.


He is working for free. It does take a lot of effort and time to research rigs, buying/configuring hardware, administration, and reporting to investors. In a standard business that is worth at least $50/hour. Assume 250 hours is needed over the next 12 months, then that is an investment of at least $12,500 or about 21% of the amount raised. As an investor, I have no problem with the entrepreneur keeping more than 50% of shares.

Every time I do the numbers, Bitcoin mining is not worth it due to the high costs in my country (25% VAT and $0.4/kW). A mining company could be more profitable in this case.

I bought 1 share to test GLBSE and it works after a few bugs was fixed ;-) I'm not going to invest any more now because of the big fight to stay anonymous and low risk of the entrepreneur. He could run away with the ~$60,000  as soon as he gets a hold of them while having absolutely no accountability and the ability to easily take on a new online identity within the Bitcoin community.

Casper


I don't have a problem with him getting half the returns either.  I do have a problem with him getting +95 initially.  I also don't like the idea (or maybe I do) that I can buy the 4,999th share at the same price as the people who bought the first hundred, months down the road when I'll be taking much less risk than the initial investors.  I also think it's understandable that he wants to hold a majority of stock, but I'm not sure if that's best for investors.  A vote could be taken to cancel dividends at any time.

Investment-wise, I'd prefer a scheme like DISHWARA where he expected to sell out his IPO shortly.  Or I would prefer a series of rounds of investment, expected to sell out, to fund growth.  Start with 1000 shares, release 500.  Once that's profitable and stocks are in demand, create another 1000 and release another 500 at a higher price.  etc.  Or use different preferred stocks, but I don't think GLBSE supports that.

I'm not in the scammer camp, I just don't see why hist time is worth so much more than my BTC, especially at a high risk Angel/VC stage of investing.
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May 15, 2011, 07:46:55 PM
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Investment-wise, I'd prefer a scheme like DISHWARA where he expected to sell out his IPO shortly.  Or I would prefer a series of rounds of investment, expected to sell out, to fund growth.  Start with 1000 shares, release 500.  Once that's profitable and stocks are in demand, create another 1000 and release another 500 at a higher price.  etc.  Or use different preferred stocks, but I don't think GLBSE supports that.


Any of these schemes would be much more beneficial to him as well, he'd get real payouts into his pocket much sooner than it wall take now, where he needs to mine at least 4000 coins before seeing Satoishi 1.
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